The Real Deal

HOD Brothers,

I am reaching a point in my life where i have to make important decisions such as where I want to carry on with my education (i am at jr year in high school)

Now let me set-up the scene, I've been playing for almost 3 years now, and the first year i didnt take it very seriously, i mainly played along to songs and played with a band, through this year i checked out mainly Mike Portnoy and mostly the rest were drummers of mainstream bands. Towards the end of this first year i started to check out steve smith and just into my 2nd year i discovered Vinnie Colaiuta. This man changed my life, but anyways, it turns out that i made a decision in November 2003 that i wanted to start taking drums seriously and i let my teacher know about this. We went back to basics, and i started learning all the essential skills that would help me to be a good well-rounded drummer.

Now as i come close to making my tertiary education choices, theres a huge part of me that wants to become a professional musician, but there is a part of me that is also saying that it is too hard and that its too risky and that it is a lot easier to get a "normal" degree and get a "normal" job.

Anyways, both my parents want me to first get a degree and then to study music and if it doesn't work out i have something to fall back on. I know this seems like a perfectly logical idea, but the fact is that i don't really want to spend 4 years getting a degree. I want to go and get taught at a good music school and started making musician friends and live and breath music. Now my parents greatly opose this (specially my mum) and having such little support makes me scared to carry this path out.

Now i know that some of you may be thinking, wow only playing 3 years he wont be good enough etc...and i am most definetely not, but the fact is that i want it so much that im not going to let that stop me, i still have a year and a half left of high school where i will be shedding (specially reading and phrasing) and i hope to attend L.A.M.A in preparation for Berklee.

Now for my concerns. Do you really have to be out of this world good to live off playing music?

For those of you that do play music for a living and wouldn't mind sharing with us some your thoughts about being a working musician (Whichever aspect it is: Teaching, freelance, being in a band etc) please do?

Is it as hard as people make it out to be to make a comfortable living as a musician?

What are the most important skills or attitudes that are needed to succeed?

Thanks a lot and i will post more questions as I think of them

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 16, 2005 10:59 AM: Message edited by: S.P ]</font>

Suspiria...... yeah!! Great Advice!!

S.P. I know we've already had this discussion, but I would listen to Suspiria. You can go to school, still woodshed, and start your "networking" there. If you're as passionate as you sound, you'll always find time to study, get your grades, and play at the local joint where all your college friends can see you play. Sleep isn't part of going to college and thats why they have COFFEE!! [img]eek.gif[/img]

Eventually you'll get noticed by some of the upcoming cool cats/players that also go there or live in town. So don't worry man!! If you have a "passion", you'll find your path. But just don't let it get in the way of good ol fashioned logic. Having something to fall back on is a great thing!!

sp i went thru the exact same thing. let me just say this DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE GIVE UP PLAYING. if u do go to a trad university, it will be tough to divide your time between drums, class, friends etc. believe i know

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Originally posted by shockediddle:
if u do go to a trad university, it will be tough to divide your time between drums, class, friends

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree. If you really want to play, you can make the time for that. No university will keep you occupied at ALL TIMES. You will have a lot of freedom to do what you want and probably become very good at time management in the process.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Suspiria:
I disagree. If you really want to play, you can make the time for that. No university will keep you occupied at ALL TIMES. You will have a lot of freedom to do what you want and probably become very good at time management in the process.

man i'd like to go where u are, all the grad students here are always busy. i think were both speaking too general, it really depends on your major.

When I was in college (Plymouth State--Holla!!) I didn't take drumming very seriously, but I had a teacher who came to the school once a week, and I practiced in the band room for an hour every day (I'd kill for that opportunity now). Plus I was heavily involved with student government and was quite a nerd.

If I had wanted to devote more time to it, I could have. So if you go to a regular college as a music major (or any major) I'm sure you'll have plenty of time to play. Plus, most colleges are a lot cheaper than music schools.

Having said that, the guys I know that went to music schools are really bad-ass players, so it's certainly not a waste of time or money. It all comes down to whether you want a Bachelor's degree.

Great topic, & some good commentary thus far.

I would also add to that & state the obvious; sometimes it relly needs to be reaffirmed -

if you go to any insitution, ESP a college [not necessarily strictly a music school] - stay FAR away from the "party people" buddies. I sh** you not. It will only waste your valuable time AWA possibly help one to develop some unsavory habits that will be a minor pain ITA to change later. Trust me on this one. Yeah, I was the smart guy who would never allow something as stoopit as "peer pressure" to dictate any choices for me...but one thing can inadvertently lead to another, & unwittingly, b4 you realize it, valuable time passes that cannot be recouped.

I'm obviously not talking about just the occasional "night out on the town" w a select few friends.

What you do NOW [& the choices] is/are going to be the dictating benchmark of the REST of your life. Preparing yourself with your scholastic AWA musical studies is FAR more important than feeloing like "belonging" or trying to "fit in." If you stay nose-pressed to the grindstone, you will automatically AWA naturally fit in later. & you'll DEF be better off for it. Stay AWAY from those who are involved in things that you KNOW will veer you off your intended course...

I realize you in particular are prob not one of these predispositioned people, as you in Jr Hi are already showing your maturuty & candor AFA concern for your future [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] , but just some obvious cautionary words to anyone else whom it may apply nevertheless... [img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 16, 2005 03:06 PM: Message edited by: got_a_matchgrip? ]</font>

[quote]Originally posted by shockediddle:

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i think were both speaking too general, it really depends on your major.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's very true. I mean I am busy, and I sure as hell can't afford to play every day, but it is doable. S.P: You can always consider sort of a double degree where you chose to focus on performance (instrument of your choice) and perhaps an Arts degree. Ever thought of that?

Get a decent normal degree and minor in music. Find a school that has a decent music program and you can hang with them and get a good degree that will help you in many ways. If you are still into it, then get a music major or something.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Suspiria:
That's very true. I mean I am busy, and I sure as hell can't afford to play every day, but it is doable.
definately doable, hell for me practice usually comes before homework [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img]

At NAMM a few years ago, a parent with his 13yo kid asked JR Robinson career advice...wish I could remember what he said. It was a lot of the obvious stuff. That's what I would do...pursue working drummers. Have five core questions for them. Do a survey. You got time being in HS. You also would be surprise how pursuing other professionals in your home town helps. Don't have to be a musician to gain wisdom and insight. Ask Joe's M how he runs a business, handles employee, wife, kids, and has time to download music [img]smile.gif[/img]

Email Joe Morris from that other thread. He seems like a real balanced guy--pro drummer, family man making it work.

In short?get aggressive and realize 95% of the guys in here probably wish they could start over with all that is available for drummers today. Most of us had turntables, cassettes, and Realistic Rock!

Hi S.P.

These are wise words from Got a Mtach Grip:

Quote:

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if you go to any insitution, ESP a college [not necessarily strictly a music school] - stay FAR away from the "party people" buddies. I sh** you not. It will only waste your valuable time AWA possibly help one to develop some unsavory habits that will be a minor pain ITA to change later. Trust me on this one. Yeah, I was the smart guy who would never allow something as stoopit as "peer pressure" to dictate any choices for me...but one thing can inadvertently lead to another, & unwittingly, b4 you realize it, valuable time passes that cannot be recouped.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have seen talented people end up either losing focus or worse frying their brains!

You are at a brilliant time when it comes to learning, with the DVD's, net etc..

My path was kind of unconventional: I could easily have gone to Uni but decided to go for music when still a teenager. I left school but I had a clear set of objectives and practiced my ass off. (Looking back Neil Peart was an influence (and Chomsky too!)... the self-schooled auto-didact thing was right for me... but it is *very* risky and I think, in balance that you should go to college though always remember those with a fall-back plan tend to fall back [img]wink.gif[/img]

Good luck and we're always here for advice,

Tim.

S.P.

Interesting discussion. When I (finally) decided to go back to school after a couple of tours as a military musician and years working as a pro, I found quite a few great players who were not music majors. These guys were serious musicians who decided not to go the music degree route.

I totally understand your mom's concern. It's the same thing my parents told me many years ago. (But, hey what did they think they were going to wind up with after 10 years of private drum lessons...an engineer!!!).

Anyway, when I went to school, I played in jazz combos in the music departments, made lots of contacts, gigged at night, and taught drums during the day to help pay for school. I even did some road trips for gigs that fit into my academic schedule.

I know of one drummer who majored in something other than music and then towards the end of his coursework was offered the gig with Larry Carlton and has worked full time as a musician ever since.

Get the degree AND get the drum/musician skills at the same time. It's totally do-able.

It's not an either/or situation. Don't ever buy into that!

Yo SP I prety much have the same problem too! I got into a major fight with my parents when I was in high school too and that was probably the dumbest thing ive ever done...i feel really bad about that cuz my parents were right.

Im a college freshman now and have been playing for about a short time also .... but ive been playing paying gigs with my band, i won the under 19 musicians scholarship of my island and got to play in several musicals with pros and stuff and my teacher thinks i can handle it. I think its one of those things that i improved quick cuz I used to practice all during school cutting class and recess and then 4 hours laters ( or... 2 to 4). I m planning on goin to school after this next school year. hopefuly ill be much much better than I am now and better at reading too so ill be prepared.

for me its...

option a) got somewhere like the collective or LAMA to take an instensive 2 years and if i cant do it,,,, ill just have to try to work my way through school to finish up.

or b) i can go to the new school (thats what its called) in NY and major in jazz but also in liberal studies... its like a double major thing so you end up with a degree in both jazz performance and liberal arts... this might actualy be better for me.

I dunno. its a very weighty decision but my parents are actualy startin to see some potential in me (probably cuz i never ever dedicated myself this much to anything) and both my drum teacher, and my old high school music teachers (and even my band mates) say that i could do it if i want (i guess it means im not hopeless on the kit....)

but yeah . i started very very late in my life and its kinda scary even if i did grow fast. But i think i wanna give it a shot just like you.
Either way i think my back up plans are set.

i also wonder how good these other kids are when they enter anyway... i might ask this dude from my high scool who is at berklee now what it was like... cuz he knows how i play cuz im kinda his replacement in the band after he left for school.

Hey S.P
Since I am a university student at the moment: Let me point out some things. You are right in saying that dedicating all your efforts towards drumming can be very risky. Especially after "only" 3 years of playing. You are still young and I would say most in your age group don't really know what awates them out there in the drumming world. So my first point would be to give it some time. For example, completing a degree at LAMA would be a great first step.
Next: If your parents have the money to provide you with a university degree and you are decent in school, DO NOT WASTE THIS OPPORTUNITY. They are completely right in saying that you need something to fall back on. Maybe you don't want to hear it (I didn't either), but they have the life experience which you (partially) don't yet. Dont forget this:
University isn't all about studying. This is where you can make friends for life and just experience so many new things. I know many that say this was the best time of their life. There will be so many students there, you should have no problem forming a band.
I am sure your other questions will be answered, hope I could help out a little.

Hey Guys,

Thanks soo much for all the advice, I'll let down on some other concerns now. I have never ever known what I wanted to be until I decided that I wanted to be a pro drummer.

Now I know that it is possible to get a degree and to study music, but, one of my concerns is after spending about 4 years at college, where i wont be able to have a drumset as I do now, what if my playing gets worse?

I also have some other concerns, Here in Hong Kong since we attend an English School, most people go to the U.K for university (which means my friends also) now we had planned for all these road trips across europe and you know, some cool fun stuff to get to know the world a bit better. Now It is highly doubtful that I will attend the u.k. But i was planning on attending Barcelona where i could be in my home country and still be pretty close to my friends. I also have family in Spain and my uncle is a pro musician so in the holidays maybe he could even start hooking me up with some small gigs.

So ok, here are some of my options

A) Go to England, where I don't know about any institutions where i could get a drum teacher, for those of you in the u.k i am considering: Cardiff, Bristol, Birmingham and Edinburgh. If anyone knows of any good teachers in those areas or good like conservatories where i could get lessons and have a place to practice please let me know, the main advantages of the U.K is that there will probably lots of musicians, and that my friends will all be near by.

B) Attend Barcelona, where there is a school which is part of the Berklee International Network (BIN) and where I could get private lessons or study part time.

BIN School in Barcelona: http://www.berklee.edu/international/barcelona.html

C) Attend Melbourne, Australia where there is a good university and Drumtek (the company that organises the Ultimate Drummers Weekend) and this is where i could lessons from people like Frank Corniola and stuff. Musically it seems like the best place along with Barcelona. The downside is that i will have no one even remotely around (very little people attend australia)

drumtek: http://www.drumtek.com.au/html/d-school.html

D) Attend L.A.M.A and if after that i feel ready, then attend berklee and if not, just attend a "normal" university to get a "normal" degree. This is probably the most risky choice.

Of course i really want to be close to my friends, and i know that it shouldn't matter where they go but even my girlfriend of over 3 years is going there, and i would really rather be close to them than say in the land down under, but if that's what it will take for my drumming and musical career to prosper then i am prepared to do so..thanks for all the advice guys and keep it coming!

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 17, 2005 01:18 AM: Message edited by: S.P ]</font>