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Hello HOD!!!
I've been giving drum lessons for 8 years. Some of my students are great, but the others are lacking some motivation. I stress the importance of knowing the basics, but they want to skip that and play a groove and/or song that's way above their level. Any suggestions???
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 23, 2005 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Drum Counselor ]</font>
I'd personally let them have at it... integrate that into their learning somehow. I can't believe some of the tunes i used to try to play when i first started out... i can't play these tunes properly to this day, but one year of playing and i was trying to nail Weckl on 'Morning Sprite". The more they practice, the more that ignorant bliss will fade from their eyes, and they will have to learn that intent doesn't equal completion... however, the fact that they are aiming above their heads is a good sign in my book.
I would integrate basics into what they are learning. If they are learning a hard tune and they can't get close to playing it, but are trying anyway... well, take a part of that tune and point out, "Hey look, here is a paradiddle-diddle here, hear that?" Then you use that as a catalyst to show them something new. Use their interest as a tool to tap into the fundamentals... bridge that from their interest. I learned how to count measures from a Guns N' Roses song... my friend wanted to jam with me on it and i didn't know where to come in on cue... he told me it was 17 measures or something like that and i asked, "What's a measure?"... hehe. The rest is, somewhat, history. I learned what triplets were from Lars and i learned odd times from Portnoy when i was starting out. If someone would have tried to make me learn those things, i would have asked, "Why the hell know that, i just wanna play", however, the fact i had an application readily available after i learned it, a REASON for learning it, then it was all gravy.
Hey Drum Counselor,
My experience is that it really depends on their age (i.e. attention span!). Younger students (much like probably most of us were at a younger age) will have limited patience for the basics and fundamentals--rudiments, reading, Stick Control, Syncopation, etc., and just want to start playing a song ASAP. Older players such as college students will be more receptive when they find that there are some large gaps in their playing. They are certainly easier to teach, to be sure!
I find that with the younger students who want to learn to play Blink-182 songs (or whatever their favorite band is) and not much else it's best to meet them halfway--to do a little bit of technique practice and a little bit of what will be fun for them, so they understand the balance they need to strike between the two. That's what happens in a perfect world. Some students are just not motivated to put ANY work in and there's pretty much nothing you can do to change it! That's what makes for a long day of teaching, and maybe these are the students you're really talking about.
I was certainly guilty of blowing off any technical practice whatsoever as an early teen and just playing along with Neil Peart in the basement. It wasn't until I got older (around 19 or 20) that I went "back to the basics" and started the more repetitive, patient rudimental and technical work I knew I needed to be a serious musician. I bet many of us have probably learned to play in this sort of "backward" fashion.
Where's Brad (Vdrummer)? I bet he'd have some pearls on this one!
Hope I helped!
-Tom
P.S. Great points, Matricks!
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 23, 2005 05:51 PM: Message edited by: Tom Hipskind ]</font>
split the lesson in half - first half, basics (rudiments, stickings, mechanical stuff) and then second half, pick a few bars of a tune they wanna learn and help them work on it.
Hey Tom! Congrats on the Lion King. How's it going?
Good points! I subscribe to the "Eat your vegetables before you get your dessert" maxim (like druming sort of person). I often have beginners play basics, and if they get through their reading exercises, then they get to spend time on something drum set oriented.
I write most of the material I teach from, and much of it teaches essential reading skills, but they're applied to the kit. Often I can get someone otherwise unmotivated to read/count, if they're learning a cool drumset solo at the same time.
I encourage all teachers to write out some short solos that require certain skills to master. Some of mine use rudiments, sticking patterns, or a weird rhythm that student's must figure out to play the thing. I often demonstrate it on the kit, to get the kid motivated to learn it, but make the student learn it on snare first, before they get to hit a tom. That way, they learn how to get the rhythms, stickings and dynamics down before they learn how to apply it to the kit. From there I can often get kids to work on material they might otherwise not be into.
Brad
Excellent replies by drumming sort of person, Tom Hipskind, and matricks. All of your points are valid. Thanks for your time.
I feel snubbed! [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]
Hey Vdrummer,
Thanks for the info. I write things out for my students. I use books too. They bring in songs to learn which is very cool in my book. Here's a situation: You show your student a double stroke roll on the snare drum. You show them how they can apply it to the kit. Weeks go by and they still can't do it because they don't want to practice it. A song is brought in by the student.
There's double strokes on the hi-hat!!! You show them what it is and they get mad and/or frustrated. Vdrummer, drumming sort of person, Tom Hipskind, and matricks: Any solutions??? I think we all agree on knowing the basics and it sounds like we were shown in very cool ways. Reading, rudiments, grooves, fills, and etc. gives us the tools to create from the heart.
Hey Vdrummer,
Don't feel snubbed!!! I need to hit refresh more often on this site. I didn't know that HOD family pays attention and respond to things.
I guess kids don't have patience anymore. I remember working on my double stroke roll forever - it fascinated me. Same with the 5 stroke and paradiddle. I couldn't get enough of it.
I just don't get it these days. There's so many things to learn. You know, I teach drums and I gig a lot, but I'm still a student of the instrument and the history. I guess some students just don't have the passion for it.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's the culture of "instant gratification." Just look at the "what should I buy questions" you get on most boards these days. I'm sure you, like me (and probably everyone else on this board) actually enjoys doing the research, no matter what the purchase - get out and try those double pedals, hit some cymbals, roll some sticks on the counter and play them on a pad, buy one of a new head you haven't tried before, and go and hit some drums. But from kids you just get - "Iron Cobra or DW5000, which should I buy?" or "tell me what cymbals to buy for heavy rock" or "recommend a DVD that'll teach me everything I need in one weekend." It drives me crazy. No-one wants to think any more.Quote:
Originally posted by Drum Counselor:
I just don't get it these days. There's so many things to learn. You know, I teach drums and I gig a lot, but I'm still a student of the instrument and the history. I guess some students just don't have the passion for it.
Bah. Getting old and turning into my father... [img]rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]frown.gif[/img]
Hey moosetication!!!
Well said!!!
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ April 24, 2005 08:40 AM: Message edited by: Drum Counselor ]</font></font>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 24, 2005 08:43 AM: Message edited by: Drum Counselor ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, as one who just asked a similar question (trying to find a good relatively inexpensive set) -- I have to say that (to me) it isn't at all about instant gratification -- nor about not getting out there doing research -- but in trying to pick the brains of people who are very knowledgeable and actually have the experience with the product. It seems to me that that is part of research.Quote:
"what should I buy questions"
[img]eek.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I consider yours to be of a different type. You were asking questions as part of your research, because you don't have stores nearby, and wanted as much advice as possible before making the trip. There's a world of difference between that and what I was talking about. Moreover, you take part in conversations and offer your own experience where you can (like Suspiria's e-drum thread).Quote:
Originally posted by MRhet:
Well, as one who just asked a similar question (trying to find a good relatively inexpensive set)...
Cool. [img]cool.gif[/img]
Cause I really like and appreciate getting schooled by people with good experience and knowledge.
This board has many such folks!
I generally teach adults, or folks who have gone as far as they can on their own.
I recently I received an e-mail from someone wanting a "crash course" in drumming. Follow up revealed that they wanted an "intensive" course. I told them that this took time and attention, and that while I could be as intense as they could stand, they probably would not be Dennis Chambers in 3 easy lessons.
They didn't follow up.
Darn.
Ha ha
But seriously folks, all seriousness aside...
I find a pistola to the forehead works quite nicely...that is until they show back up with their gangsta-thug-rap posse armed to the teeth with Machs, Glocks, & AKs... [j/k - I jest]
Just put a picture of the Drew Carey Show's female office co-worker/Drew's arch-nemesis in front of them, & politely inform them that if they don't practice their rudiments & rhythms hard to become a drummer in a band, their GF will end up looking something like this... [I jest yet again, no off intended to Drew's office co-worker]...
[Total Smack-talk Social Breakdown & disregard for tact & diplomacy]...
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 25, 2005 06:37 PM: Message edited by: got_a_matchgrip? ]</font>
Just when I think the artist formerly known as Fuse can't get any wackier, he comes up with something like this...I love it! Don't ever leave man, you make this place go round [img]cool.gif[/img]
G.A.M.G
I prefer the old, "do this or I'll kill you" approach. Toss a few tattered bodies about the practice room, wear a "Silence of the Lambs" mask, and call all your students "clarice" They won't swat a fly from their noses while performing rudiments on the snare [img]wink.gif[/img]
But seriously.....
"The Vegitables and Dessert" aproach thing I think is the way to go. Plus.... I'm sure you have some "star" students young and older. Take a video of them and show it to your "lesser" students as to what they could achieve. Then you can get into the "talk" about the importance of fundamentals.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL You guys rock. I'm glad you guys have a good SOH too, & didn't take offense to my silly post...since there were various good responses already, i decided to take the "designed to bring a 'chortle' approach" [that was for you, Joe's [img]wink.gif[/img] ] - there was no intention to undermine a good thread! [img]cool.gif[/img]Quote:
...artist formerly known as...
...I prefer the old, "do this or I'll kill you" approach. Toss a few tattered bodies about the practice room, wear a "Silence of the Lambs" mask, and call all your students "clarice" They won't swat a fly from their noses while performing rudiments on the snare
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 25, 2005 10:00 PM: Message edited by: got_a_matchgrip? ]</font>
I love the answers on this topic. Any others out there with some ideas???
I have been working with my boys drum teacher and we found out that to motivate my 2 boys and keep their attention they practice for 1/2 hour.
15 minuets spent on stick work i.e. snare,rudiments,work out of "A Funky Primer for the Rock Drummer". The other 15 minuets are spent on jamming to a cd without drums. "WjojWorks sessions minus one". http://www.drummercafe.com/community...=wojoworks.htm
I have set them up with the Vic Firth SIH1's headphones with an in-line volume control and they are ready to go. See my sig below, my youngest is practicing with them.
My kids are 8 & 11 so the attention span is not too long. I have no problem getting them to practice with this program in place. The best part is the instant gratification they get using what they have learned from the books and applying it to the songs on the cd.They will sit down and jam when not asked to just so they can get a groove down.Also the fact my 8 year old has a little better feel and time than my 11 year old gets them to sit and practice together.
Very Cool [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
Monday; basketball, Tuesday, judo, Wednesday, drumming, Thursday, golf, Friday, hang out, Saturday, playstation, Sunday, tv!
I think you should ask what your student wants. If you know his / her goals, you can decide how to deal with them. I don't know if you need the income but maybe they are not the students you want / need. You could tell them that you are considering throwing them out to make more time for serious students who give feedback on their previous lessons and do their best to achieve something. Or if you are fine with their decision to show up without practicing, you can tell them that they are wasting money ignoring your valuable lessons but that it is OK for you. At least you know that you don't have to put too much energy in it, although that's not really satisfying. And last but not least, lock them up in your bassdrum and use the hour for practicing your double bass chops, they won't do it again [img]wink.gif[/img]
Great answers!!! Hey Jerbear: Dan Wojciechowski is a great drummer and friend. Sounds like you're getting some great results. Hey JP: I hear you loud and clear. I have a great gang of students right now. They all understand the rules: Practice, Practice, Practice!!!! [img]wink.gif[/img] HEY TEACHERS!!! Share some of your teaching tips!!! Thanks!!! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
Great responses on this thread, guys!
One thing I used to do with my students is to allow some jam time at the end of the lesson as a reward for work well done. I used to start my lessons by reviewing the previous week's work. If they came in prepared, it would only take 5-10 minutes for them to nail their 'assignment'. Then, we'd do 10-15 mins on new stuff. That would leave time at the end of the lesson to 'jam' a bit, whether it be going over a song they brought in, or trading 4's (which my older jazz guys loved!).
Obviously, if the student came in unprepared from the previous week, we'd have to spend more time at the beginning of the lesson which would cut out the time available at the end. Most were usually motivated to get prepared!!
Of course, I'd have to use G.A.M.G.s pistol therapy on some of 'em!! [img]smile.gif[/img]
-Scott
Hey Scott!!! Your approach sounds like my approach!!! Cool!!! Thanks for your reply.
JP nailed today's kids well. They have so many activities going on it can be dificult to really focus on all of them, so some things do end up being lower on their priority lists. But don't let kids fool you. In college I had a 12 year old student who just didn't seem to pay attention to anything I said and just couldn't get the things I was presenting to him. I ran into him when he was 19 and he told me he was listening and gathering it all in; it's just that he wasn't putting in the time. At around 15 he said he got serious and began working on the stuff and it began to fall into place for him. The kid played great when I heard him. He went on to be one of the drummers for "Stabbing Westward" and now has a very successful music production company.
i think a really good way is to introduce them to new inspiring music and drummers, 90% of drummers i talk to here in hk dont know vinnie colaiuta, what a source of inpiration to be without
Also i find that when i tell my teacher about a cool cd to get and then the next week hes got it and plays me a song from it (him playing a long to the cd) i find this inspires me too!
I make compilation CDs for my students. A huge mix of music. Most are into it and few are not.