First Jazz Session - HELP WANTED!

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May 10th, 2005, 07:57 PM
CLWarunki

I just got a call from an engineer friend of mine who wants me to play on a jazz record he is working on. He is aware that I am not a jazz drummer, but thinks I can do it. I think it would be a great challenge and another style on my session resume... I've done pop, rock, metal, alternative, funk, blues, etc - but never jazz. I pride myself on being diverse, and I listen to a lot of jazz and have dabbled in playing it, but I am not a "jazz drummer" and have never done a jazz gig... well not since high school jazz band, and that was not really jazz. Heh.
The material is singer/songwriter - think Norah Jones, Diana Krall etc. I will have a week to learn the material. I don't think charts will be involved, but we'll see.

Any advice from the session guys or jazz cats of HOD would be much appreciated! [img]smile.gif[/img]
May 10th, 2005, 08:07 PM
Dazzler

This is a bit of a lame thing to say, but if you do a search for 'jazz' or 'cymbal time', there should be loads of threads on this for you.

Good luck, think of the music and have fun!! Look forward to hearing the results! [img]wink.gif[/img]
May 10th, 2005, 08:14 PM
Klemme

How is your Brush-playing? You'll definitely play some of the tunes with Brushes if it's Norah Jones'ish.

I just listen as much as possible to my jazz-heroes; Alex Riel, Steve Gadd and Peter Erskine.

And just be yourself at the session.

Maybe bring a Cajon for the latest "Singer/Songwriter" essence [img]tongue.gif[/img]
May 10th, 2005, 08:19 PM
Dazzler

http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ult...c&f=609&t=4561

Click on this link and then scroll down to my post... I listed 4 topics.This should help.

[ May 10, 2005 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Dazzler ]
May 10th, 2005, 08:57 PM
CLWarunki

Thanks for the help Dazz, looks like a have a lot of studying to catch up on!!!

Klemme, I love Alex Riel... but I don't think I can play like that by next week! HA! Oh...
you are not serious about the cajon, are you!? I thought those were latin anyways... heh.
May 10th, 2005, 09:34 PM
Klemme

Hehe, well there are clubs here in Copenhagen where Drumsets are prohibited ( Singer/songwriter snob-culture places) So i cheat em by bring my Cajon and can still play som hip things on it. You can get the same dynamics and Snare/Bass sound of it as a club kit.

I just forgot to mention!

You NEED to pick up the Peter Erskine; Timekeeping is everything Video, i don't know if it's on DVD, but you'll get all the essentials taught about Jazz etc. one of the DCI video's i learned most from!
May 11th, 2005, 01:14 AM
CLWarunki

Smart thinking, Klemme!!!

Yes, I will have to check out that Erskine video, I think it's only on VHS - right?

Peter, where are you?!

[img]tongue.gif[/img]
May 11th, 2005, 01:22 AM
Henry II

My advice would be to pick up a couple of Diana Krall CD's and practice playing along. Listen to PE or JH (whoever's on drums) and try to learn the basic comping and phrasing they do.
May 11th, 2005, 02:44 AM
peter c

Really talk about this session
with your friend and get what he
really is looking for. Then find
something comparable.

Yes and have fun with it. It's all
about new experiences!!

[img]cool.gif[/img]
May 11th, 2005, 02:51 AM
FlamTriplet

Get some CDs and get the sound in your head.
May 11th, 2005, 05:07 AM
Tom Hipskind

Hey Chris,

I'd say, overall, you may want to think about being light and transparent (if it's truly Jones/Krall-ish), and "soften" your touch on the DRUMS (especially the bass drum); drive the time a bit more from the ride cymbal.

These are just some very general rules of thumb when thinking of the differences between jazz drumming and rock/pop drumming. I'm sure you'll be great. The music will ultimately reveal itself to you and you'll react accordingly. Hope I helped, and best of luck!

-Tom
May 11th, 2005, 05:09 AM
sipandbite

make sure you go in with drums and cymbals that will help you get into that sonic head space. 18" bass drum and drums wide open and tuned up with coated ambassadors etc.... bring a flat right with a rivet it in if you have one or can borrow one.
May 11th, 2005, 04:15 PM
troutbrooke

Wear dark sunglasses and a black turtleneck sweater to the session and arrive with bongos under your arm. Once inside, demand that someone get you an espresso. Then, while they run down the first song for you, nod your head and whisper "yeah baby!"

Whenever possible, complain about the state of jazz and how the 'language' is only understood by the chosen few.... [img]wink.gif[/img]
May 11th, 2005, 09:44 PM
Rhythmatist

DSOP! Yeahhh Baby! [img]cool.gif[/img]

I can't stop laughing!!!
May 11th, 2005, 10:39 PM
Avi_drums

Develop an obsession with Steve Hass and laud it over others...watch Ken Burns' Jazz over and over...pretend you are black...accept Wynton's definition of jazz as 'absolute truth'.
May 11th, 2005, 11:59 PM
CLWarunki

Muahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Man, I have so much great advice here - it's overwhelming!!!

So far I think the shades and bongos might be my best bet.

[img]cool.gif[/img] "YEAH BABY!"
May 12th, 2005, 12:11 AM
troutbrooke

Quote:

Originally posted by CLWarunki:
So far I think the shades and bongos might be my best bet.

Seriously though, I'm sure you'll be fine. Just play what feels right for you and the music. You're being hired for what you can bring to the music after all.
May 12th, 2005, 03:46 AM
cjbdrm

I agree with the "sonic headspace" concept. The sound of your instrument will definitely influence how you play it.

Here's some advice:

1. Practice with lighter sticks
2. Practice without ear plugs. (This will force you to play quieter)
3. Practice with just kick, snare, hi-hat, ride cymbal(This will force you to think creatively)
4. Practice with brushes, playing along to some music. Practice with one brush and one stick. Practice with mallets.
5. Practice switching back and forth between brushes and sticks. (Also, with mallets)
6. Discover how many different sounds you can get out of just your snare drum with sticks, mallets, and brushes, with snares on or off! Now apply these in a groove.
7. Tune your drums a little higher and more "open".
8. Focus more on the cymbals and less on drums("light and airy" or "from the top down")
9. Oil your kickpedal and hi-hat pedals.
10. Listen to a lot of similar music and the drumming associated with it. Jeff Hamilton, Peter Erskine, etc.

Doesn't sound like a bebop gig to me. Your artistic statement will probably be your creativity in playing time. This could open many doors for you- but don't worry about making such a bold artistic statement...if you don't draw attention to yourself, that'll probably mean you're doing a great job- the focus should always be on the singer. Just support them with some ass-kicking time/groove and everyone will be happy!
May 13th, 2005, 12:08 AM
Flarobstix

Pretty funny.
What do they mean Diana Krall/Norah Jones? Diana swings with a traditional feel, Norah is just old school country and folk as far as the drumming goes. Sounds like a wide range of playing. Being that you don't have time to become a musical dictionary , I suggest listening to the albums the engineer is refering to. Sounds like he wants Brian Blade, as he has played with both of those singers. You'll do great! Good luck.
Avi, as dumb and embarassing as your post is, I laughed a little. SDK and I are both african-american. You idiot! HA! No hard feelings though, I know all about the so called "black wanna be's" of jazz. For me music is and always will be color blind.
May 13th, 2005, 07:01 AM
matricks

I actually haven't read the other answers to this cause i just got in and have to get back to rehearsing for a musical... which i am gonna to write a thread on once i have time! [img]confused.gif[/img]

I have a quick word of advice to loosen your play for this gig. Besides all the obvious tuning, cymbal and equip stuff that will make you 'feel' like a jazz drummer (cause that does alot to make you feel like you are in the right place when you sit down and everything sounds how it should in 'jazz')... however, this is what i do when i have to switch from a 'pop' mindset to a 'jazz' one. I sit down with my favorite jazz stuff, listening wise, and play quarters on my ride... just quarters. Nothing else, no snare, no hats, bass drum, NOTHING. Just sit there and try to get as much with my quarters as possible. Do that for a while, try 20min... it seems like a long time, and it is at first. Then start playing around with the Ride a little, but don't add anything else but what you can do on the ride. What it does is open up my feel a little... gives me a feel of how to work in and around the quarter. It really gets my head in the right place.

Just an idea.
May 13th, 2005, 08:07 AM
S.P

that sounds like an interesting concept matricks!

I just had basically what i could say my first time playing jazz with a band, and im sure CLW is a much better player than me but i found it harder to keep the time especially with the band as there were 9 or 10 memebers whilst keeping the swing feel, i got used to it afterwhile. If there is any advice i can give you from my experience, is just listen to the music first if you have time or the first 30 seconds of each tune before you play it. It really helped me when i did this today...

Good luck
May 13th, 2005, 12:18 PM
Henry II

Quote:

Originally posted by drumming sort of person:
Wear dark sunglasses and a black turtleneck sweater to the session and arrive with bongos under your arm. Once inside, demand that someone get you an espresso. Then, while they run down the first song for you, nod your head and whisper "yeah baby!"

Whenever possible, complain about the state of jazz and how the 'language' is only understood by the chosen few.... [img]wink.gif[/img]

YOU FORGOT THE MUSTACHE AND VAN DYKE! Humph!
May 13th, 2005, 02:08 PM
Groovemeister

Quote:

Originally posted by drumming sort of person:
Wear dark sunglasses and a black turtleneck sweater to the session and arrive with bongos under your arm. Once inside, demand that someone get you an espresso. Then, while they run down the first song for you, nod your head and whisper "yeah baby!"

Whenever possible, complain about the state of jazz and how the 'language' is only understood by the chosen few.... [img]wink.gif[/img]

This was, by far, the funniest thing I've ever read on here and I've been here yeeeears...

MP
May 13th, 2005, 02:52 PM
Willy Brown

I've read all of the responses and I agree with Matrix one hundred per cent. Given that this is truly a "jazz" session, you should lean on the ride and let it drive the music. Ensure your ride divisions are consistent from measure to measure or the groove will suffer. Don't use any sort of heavy, pingy ride or it will be obtrusive and work against the liquid feel you need. Read Matrix again and heed, that's my advice. Seriously, though, if this were a true jazz session, and I balk at considering Norah Jones more than a very distant relative of the jazz community, the producer would have a jazz guy do the gig. That is, if it were truly a Diana Krall sort of thing, they'd have an Erskine or local equivalent, so I wouldn't sweat it. It's probably a folk gig with lots of brushes and "alternate sounds". Bring a sizzle cymbal and some Ks and a softer beater for your kick. You don't learn jazz in a week, unless the producer is on a reduced budget....
WB
May 13th, 2005, 04:50 PM
chrisbrady

DSOP. You're a funny guy. That was genius.
CB
May 13th, 2005, 05:03 PM
CLWarunki

Yeah, DSOP gave me some golden advice... but should I ask for espresso or capuccino? If the taste does not meet my standards should I proceed to spit it up onto a napkin and leave?

matricks... 20mins of quarters on my ride?! That would kill me. I think I have ADD, or more like HADD - but it only surfaces when I sit behind the kit. Would be a good challenge though! Do you think Stewart Copeland could have ever sat there doing quarter notes on his ride for almost half an hour!? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Oh yeah and I guess I shouldn't have mentioned Jones with Krall, since they are TOTALLY different. Yeah, Norah is not jazz... Krall is... sorry, my bad. I have yet to get the tunes, but I think it's gonna be straight jazz more like Krall. So yeah, better get working on that ride cymbal... thanks for all the advice everyone!!!
May 13th, 2005, 06:14 PM
drumgod1

Play time, time, time, time, time. Most likely, that is all that will be required. Jazz singers are a strange bunch, and the less you over shadow what they are doing, the better. I once asked my drum instructor (who's recorded with Karrin Allyson and local singer Angela Hagenbach) and he said what they want from you is drumming where they feel what you are playing more than hear it. If you are playing bebop kicks and trying to interact quite a bit with the other musicians while the singer is singing, you are most likely overplaying. You are there to enhance their singing and make them create a better performance. This sounds like a true less is more gig.

Good luck!

Mike
May 14th, 2005, 03:00 AM
JoesMechanic

Flarobsticks writes.....

"I know all about the so called "black wanna be's" of jazz."

I'm curious to know who those "wanna be's" are??

CLwar....

There's a CD (was a record originally). Yellow face, all "Bird" tunes. Several different tempos...... "straight ahead" stuff. When I want to "own" or "internalize" the Jazz time or feel, that's a great CD to lock yourself up in your room for around 45 minutes and pound the "Jazz time" into your head.
May 14th, 2005, 07:16 AM
Flarobstix

My original post was full of venting, so I deleted it! ha! Knowing that no matter how hard I try, few will get it.
But CL, I did say Good luck on your session. Go check out some Brain Blade!

[ May 14, 2005 04:47 AM: Message edited by: Flarobstix ]
May 14th, 2005, 05:18 PM
CLWarunki

Brain SUCKS, Brian Blade does not.
May 14th, 2005, 05:41 PM
Klemme

Quote:

Originally posted by CLWarunki:
Brain SUCKS, Brian Blade does not.

If i took this quote over to the pearl forums........ ...... .... ... .. . .. ... .... ... .. .

[img]cool.gif[/img]
May 14th, 2005, 08:50 PM
CLWarunki

Quote:

Originally posted by Klemme:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by CLWarunki:
Brain SUCKS, Brian Blade does not.

If i took this quote over to the pearl forums........ ...... .... ... .. . .. ... .... ... .. .

[img]cool.gif[/img] <hr /></blockquote>Klemme, my friend, don't take ANYTHING over to the Pearl Forums - not even YOURSELF!

[img]graemlins/shhh.gif[/img]
May 14th, 2005, 10:36 PM
CLWarunki

This just in (thank god!):

Looks like the session will be more along the lines of a Brad Mehldau sound rather than Krall... in other words a bit more open, free, groovin' and experimental even.

So I guess I will go for the Matt Chamberlin approach on this one. I'm saved!

[img]smile.gif[/img]
May 14th, 2005, 10:43 PM
matricks

Speaking of, Matt is playing up in Bellingham with Frisell on June 28th. That would be something to check out for sure! Only 30 minutes away from Vancouver! [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

I'm going to that gig or the one he is doing down in Tacoma, which is a little closer than B-ham... Bellingham is so much nicer, though... kinda like Canada, but with a sh*tty government [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

But yeah, you need to check out Matt live, if you haven't... man, that guy is SOOO tasty.

[ May 14, 2005 07:44 PM: Message edited by: matricks ]
May 14th, 2005, 10:51 PM
matricks

EDIT: Duh... or you could see him in VANCOUVER on June 27th! Hehe, i kinda missed that on first glance [img]wink.gif[/img]
May 14th, 2005, 11:31 PM
CLWarunki

Matricks, thanks for the tips!!! I can not believe he is playing in Bellingham, WTF!? Is there even a decent venue that holds more than 40 people there?! lol

Chances are I will go to both Bellingham and Vancouver gigs, where can I get tix?

I own very few recordings with Matt, but he made a huge impact on me when I first saw/heard him. I remember seeing him on TV twice, YEARS ago. Once was with Fiona apple on SNL and the other was a Tori Amos unplugged thing... I remember how fluid his playing was and he was the first drummer that made me consider playing trad grip (which I do now - kind of!). I think he is the definition of "hip". Can't wait to see him in action! [img]smile.gif[/img]
May 15th, 2005, 03:35 AM
matricks

Yes Brain Blade is awesome, but even better, go and check out Brian Blade... my personal favorite [img]biggrin.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]
May 15th, 2005, 06:45 AM
CLWarunki

Cool, keep me posted!!!

Good luck with the lessons too... keep bugging him and he will give in eventually. And make sure to let me know everything he taught you!

[img]wink.gif[/img]
May 15th, 2005, 03:23 PM
matricks

Yeah, Matt IS WAY hip! I always bug him for lessons whenever i bump into him. He is always like, "Man, i would love to but i am NEVER home... when i am home, i do things like cut the grass and sh*t like that...". Since he lives near me, i am gonna start to offer him things like i will cut his grass every week for a lesson once a month... i think he'd go for it! You know, like, "Hey Matt, need me to walk the dogs, get groceries... whatever man, just give me some lessons" [img]wink.gif[/img]

Actually, Matt has studied with some really heavy guys. You wouldn't know that he has some really sound technique since his playing is so organic... you never think technique, but it's there.

Yeah, Bellingham, haha! Actually, for some reason they get some hip bands and acts playing up there. Must be because of the school up there. Actually, Western Washington's music school ain't too shabby. I am always surprised when i see some of the music that ends up there and not here. Ah, but the girls up there... eat too much granola for me... damn hippies! [img]confused.gif[/img]

But yeah, if you haven't seen Matt live, your in for a treat. It's not every day that you get to see a 1st call, world class studio drummer up close and personal.

I will find out more about tix too... [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
May 16th, 2005, 08:41 PM
got_a_matchgrip

I know this is a small 'side-step,' but Brad Mehldau trio was at the Freihofer's Saratoga '03 fest when Chick & many other great acts were there. They were great AW. Another fantastic show i saw was J Sample's trio opening for the more pop-RnB-jazz [but still fantastic] Sanborn.

Brad had a very good band, & the drummer [unfortunately didn't catch his name] was qiite the trad, bop, AWA elements of fuso type. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

Don't expect to be playing like Brad's drummer if you're just getting into jazz, so yes, less is indeed more in this case, but do like the others' said, esp mat, [some great suggestions by folks] AWA imbibe yourself by listening to those listening suggestions AMA you can b4 the session...& best of luck.

Did I get that right - Matt C is playing w BILL Frisell?

[ May 16, 2005 05:45 PM: Message edited by: got_a_matchgrip? ]