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I keep runing into old pics of vinnie playing matched grip. Does any body know why he switched to trand?
I remember reading an old intervie with him where he said he wasnt satisfied with his left had. Maybe he felt that trad would be better for his left hand?
I'm sure some of u guys know the story...
I think Vinnie has always switched back & forth between the two.
No disrespect intended here, but why would someone's preference for a certain grip be of any concern? I'm sure he switched because he felt he plays better, or more comfortably with that grip. Chances are that he started with that grip when he first began playing.
I guess the whole grip thing has been a big debate and will continue to be forever. Each has pros and cons, but the bottom line is that there are good examples of players from both camps who can play anything well.
Yes. There certainly was a period where he did alot more switching than he does today. For example, alot of the live stuff w/Zappa he plays matched grip. And the first tune on Zildjian day in New York is matched grip. Then it's traditional grip when he plays the odd time stuff. That was 1984. It would seem very soon after he made a transition in his playing and he relied more on traditional grip. On Buddy Rich Memorial Scholarship we have a devastatingly sick display of traditional grip chops that will set your hair on fire! Then Soul Cages tour with Sting is pretty much all traditional grip. So it looks to me around 1985-1987 there is a transition in his playing. Where he moved away from matched grip. And of course he mentions working on his left hand in Modern Drummer in 1987. That's my guess anyway. I could be wrong though.
Vinnie on playing matched grip:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Quote:
"I hadn't been playing that much, so my traditional grip felt a bit funky, and I was playing real hard, so I just went with it because it felt right at that moment - it's not like I'd never played matched or anything. At least I'm using my muscles."
Vinnie on grips:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Quote:
What is it exactly that you want to work on?
"My grip-trying to make my hands more symmetrical. I don't really think it's possible to be completely symmetrical. Your body isn't symmetrical. It seems that way, but it's not. I'd like to strive for more technical consistency. I'm not even sure right now if there is a middle-ground way of playing that will work for everything. I think my problem is that I'm psychologically affected by different kinds of music, and that causes me to hold the sticks differently and hit the drums differently."
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 20, 2005 06:47 PM: Message edited by: drumming sort of person ]</font>
I think Vince nailed it on the second quote DSOP posted.
When it comes to have been playing enough, and playing enough different styles, and then experimenting with the trad grip from a matched, you'll find yourself 'wanting' to lean towards the trad grip for some reason. And I agree, it's an emotional thing, as much of music is.
Seems like the more I play trad grip, the more I use it, and the more colors/sounds/flexability it gives me in making music.
Just my 2 cents.
There are of course exceptions, but I think GENERALLY SPEAKING my theory still holds true.
Trad Grip = better doubles.
Matched grip = better singles.
For the style of drumming that I, and many others here enjoy, it requires a lot of left-handed doubles. Trad grip accomodates that a little better for some reason. Dennis, Billy, Neil, all singles guys and played matched when doing there power rolls down the kit. Novak plays both but when he's blazing the singeles, he's using matched.
Weck, Vinnie, Virgil, all masters of the doubles using trad grip.
I bet that's part of the reason Vinnie ended up switching. He realized his gravitating to double-stroke oriented phrasing and noticed trad grip better accomodates that. Plus on the older footage when he's playing doubles stuff using matched, it's not as clean.
I do think matched better accomodates raw power though, which doesn't really translate to finness, or cleanliness.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Steve, here's my theory: Traditional grip is more effective when the arm is bent and the hand is close to the body, in other words on snare. Matched grip works better when the arm is reaching. JMHO.Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Holmes:
There are of course exceptions, but I think GENERALLY SPEAKING my theory still holds true.
Trad Grip = better doubles.
Matched grip = better singles.
For the style of drumming that I, and many others here enjoy, it requires a lot of left-handed doubles. Trad grip accomodates that a little better for some reason. Dennis, Billy, Neil, all singles guys and played matched when doing there power rolls down the kit. Novak plays both but when he's blazing the singeles, he's using matched.
Weck, Vinnie, Virgil, all masters of the doubles using trad grip.
I bet that's part of the reason Vinnie ended up switching. He realized his gravitating to double-stroke oriented phrasing and noticed trad grip better accomodates that. Plus on the older footage when he's playing doubles stuff using matched, it's not as clean.
I do think matched better accomodates raw power though, which doesn't really translate to finness, or cleanliness.
If I'm not mistaken, VC started w TG, & experimented w MG shortly after during the yrs aft.
The only major difference i see btwn the 2 is, in TG, the stick is cradled in the area of the hand btwn thumb & forefinger [1st], w the forefinger & sometimes 2nd ["birdie"] finger used to control some of the bounce on the 'top' of the stick...whereas MG has the stick cradled in the 1st & predominantly the 2nd fingers, w the thumb & 1st also acting somewhat as what the 1st & 2nd accomplish in TG, the "focal point" of balance [American Grip, aka German + French].
Othere than that, i don't see how either grip could be deemed "greater" than the other, IMHO. I don't think one shouldn't also be able to obtain as large a degree of sensitivity w MG as w TG if desired AW. But then again, that's just me. ;-)
Now, i guess that was obvious. I think "I'll go home" [n play/practice] now. /;-p
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 21, 2005 09:42 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No disrespect intended here, but why did you feel the need to open your reply with that? As you can see, it's turned into a decent topic. You did something like that with me once, and frankly, I don't know what your problem is.Quote:
Originally posted by drumming sort of person:
No disrespect intended here, but why would someone's preference for a certain grip be of any concern?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No disrespect intended here, but why did you feel the need to open your reply with that?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Point taken... I think I was feeling a little self-righteous that day! Sorry....Quote:
Originally posted by Rudy_Ment:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by drumming sort of person:
No disrespect intended here, but why would someone's preference for a certain grip be of any concern?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No disrespect intended here, but why did you feel the need to open your reply with that?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Point taken... I think I was feeling a little self-righteous that day! Sorry....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]Quote:
Originally posted by drumming sort of person:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Rudy_Ment:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by drumming sort of person:
No disrespect intended here, but why would someone's preference for a certain grip be of any concern?
4got to mention; I don't know, maybe it's just me but; Vinnie, Weckl, Buddy, & Virgil's TG singles tend to refute the MG = betta sngls...& Novaks dbls w MG are pretty staggering...JMHO /;-)<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I didn't take any offense to this at all...Quote:
Originally posted by drumming sort of person:
No disrespect intended here, but why would someone's preference for a certain grip be of any concern?
& aft all, he did preface it by stating, "No disrespect intended..." /;-)
Having a bad day, RM? [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]redface.gif[/img]
[...Or maybe it's the nitrous-oxide I took] ;-p
But i guess i can see how someone else might take his tone [the way he "said" it] the wrong way... /;-) [img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 21, 2005 09:48 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>