The fastest ride hand in the West strikes again...
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The fastest ride hand in the West strikes again...
This wonderful fragment is from Peter's first video. Great!
Best regards,
Alex Sanguinetti
I have immense respect for PE, especially his uptempo feel and phrasing. But, the Drummerworld video of Tony Williams with Miles is some of the most astonishing right hand cymbal work I've ever seen.
Dirty. Anyone know what type of ride that is that he starts off on?
Yeah, that ride work is insane. He's sitting pretty low for Jazzish stuff, though, isn't he?
And i think the ride is a K Zildjian - i'd guess a Custom Dry or something like that; it doesn't have too much wash. But this may have been a while back, and they probably don't make that exact model now.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah it's fast, but it's slow compare to "Fast City" that Peter used to play with Weather Report.Quote:
And believe me I know what I'm talking about !!!
Speaking of Tony, I could NEVER cop that 5-fast-notes-in-a-row thing he frequently does when playing uptempo ride patterns. (Technically the rhythm is 4 eighths followed by a quarter note, but at breakneck tempo.)
Both Tony and DeJohnette do that effortlessly, but I've never been able to pull it off. Any of you guys manage to cop it?
Mr. A.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can! At about 170 bpm. [img]wink.gif[/img]Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Acrolite:
Speaking of Tony, I could NEVER cop that 5-fast-notes-in-a-row thing he frequently does when playing uptempo ride patterns. (Technically the rhythm is 4 eighths followed by a quarter note, but at breakneck tempo.)
Both Tony and DeJohnette do that effortlessly, but I've never been able to pull it off. Any of you guys manage to cop it?
Mr. A.
BTW, for another impressive ride cymbal technique check out this gospel drummer's technique. It's what I would call, mmmm . . . annoyingly effortless. [img]mad.gif[/img]
Click on VIDEO LESSON "Basic Shout Drums" with Stephon Dubose aka "Spider" here: http://www.gospelchops.com/index-2.html
Beautiful. You can see the finger work going on to create that speed. I simply can't play the jazz ride rhythm that fast. But I'm working on it! I wonder if erskomans new left ride is similar sounding, because that one in the vid has a wonderful breathy sound behind the ping.
I've been wanting to get the Ersk live at the Jazz Baltica AWA the Abercrombie / Tooch vids for some time now...i already know they're going to have some good stuff...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh, my; another borderline potential 'x vs y' or 'what's faster' coup thread?...how novel.Quote:
Originally posted by Henry II:
I have immense respect for PE, especially his uptempo feel and phrasing. But, the Drummerworld video of Tony Williams with Miles is some of the most astonishing right hand cymbal work I've ever seen.
"Compare brands, & save!"
You know you're in trouble when you see that "but" word coming... ;o]
H2, you're not turning into another one of those "pooh-pooh / rain on the parade / pee on the other guy's designer [Weck] drum shoe" guys, are ya? Lord knows we were needing at least one more... [img]wink.gif[/img]
I'll do my 'poo-poo' turn & say, "yes that's a nice brisk tempo [but there are even faster swing ride tunes out there" ;o/...of which PE can play AW /;o]].... Sweet stuff [regardless of the notion of 'how fast']. ;op
Let me just say that both Tony AWA Peter are 2 of the most influential contributors to bop AWA post-bop jazz out there... [img]cool.gif[/img]
Oh my; did i just start another jazz [potential coup] thread? My, how novel... [img]tongue.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 28, 2005 01:18 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
The first ride he played is definitely the 20" K Custom Dry ride that he used very often around those times. The other (the "main" ride), I believe, was just a 20" K Ride. Man, this stuff is so burning! I remember seeing him in clinic around this time--I believe it was a Zildjian Day in Chicago around '88 or '89--same kit and everything. Basically the same stuff he did/said on those videos. So musical and inspiring! Really motivated me to work hard at becoming a better musician.
Thanks Peter!
P.S. Rudy--I've checked out the Left Side ride; it's very similar. More airy, though. The Custom Dry is pretty pingy and a bit heavier. The LSR is lighter with a bit more spread and, I think, comes with 3 rivets.
-Tom
Speaking of fast ride work... how fast do you think a drummer should be able to play in swing time? Well, thats not exactly good phrasing, but what I mean to ask is, is there a ball park tempo where its like a "if you can do this, you can probably cover most of the stuff youll be encountering" tempo? Listening to Miles, a lot of the material is super super super fast... and all I can handle is about 270bpm !! I know... its super slow....but im workin on it....I think Steve Hass wrote somewhere in his forum that he goes from 40-400bpm or something like that if im not mistaken... is that necessary? [img]eek.gif[/img] or is something like 300bpm adequate?
I cant figure out a way to type this out without making a question sound kinda stupid.... [img]mad.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Miles up tempo stuff with Philly Joe was typically at about 350+ and with Tony a little faster than that. Also, if you clock some of those recordings you'll find that the tempos fluctuate by as much as 30 bpm depending on where in the song they are. I've heard some recordings at 400+ bpm. There was one recently that was just ridiculous but the dj didn't give the names of the players.Quote:
Originally posted by GoMan:
Speaking of fast ride work... how fast do you think a drummer should be able to play in swing time? Well, thats not exactly good phrasing, but what I mean to ask is, is there a ball park tempo where its like a "if you can do this, you can probably cover most of the stuff youll be encountering" tempo? Listening to Miles, a lot of the material is super super super fast... and all I can handle is about 270bpm !! I know... its super slow....but im workin on it....I think Steve Hass wrote somewhere in his forum that he goes from 40-400bpm or something like that if im not mistaken... is that necessary? [img]eek.gif[/img] or is something like 300bpm adequate?
I cant figure out a way to type this out without making a question sound kinda stupid.... [img]mad.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]
I think it depends on your local jazz community. When I was in school (a hard-core bop school), that number was UP there. David Baker used to count tunes off in "one" because the quarter notes were too fast - probably around 400 bpm. But in most of the Florida gigs I've done, it's rare that I've seen people go much past 280-300. If I tried to play a tune at 400 now, my arm would probably fall off by the second chorus.
You might want to get to the point where you can hang in the low 300's, so that 270 seems easy by comparison. Fast is cool, but fast and frantic is not.
Be patient - it takes time to develop!
Mr. A.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 29, 2005 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Acrolite ]</font>