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~AMERICAN GIRL~Felicity Doll~GERMANY 1986 w/ RED Hair~ Item number:
Saw this on Ebay tonight..is it good?
*edited because this item is on the wishlist sticky.
<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ August 30, 2005 11:01 AM: Message edited by: judiaci ]</font>
Yes, her hair color looks about right. Hard to tell with that horrible lighting in the pictures, though.
She looks good, to me , if her tag says 1986, that means she is one of the orginal Felicity's that was surpose to come out when Samantha, Kristen, and Molly came out in 1986, when Felicity was origanally surpose to be one of the orginal 4 coming out but instead only 3 came out. She is a prototype used in 1991 but was actually made in 1986 and released in 1991. She is a orginal Pleasent Company Release. One her of orginal creations. Go for it! Bid on her! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
From what other posts have said, I thought that the year on the tag just commemorates the year that Pleasant Company started.
she doesn't seem to hace those freaky green eyes, so it is possible that she is PM, but she isn't one of the oldest Felicity's because they didn't have body tags, only clothing tags. she is really pretty though, hope you win her!
If she is a proto-type, then she would have documentation, would she not? I dont know anything about the proto-type AG's, so I am asking for help here on the way that the co was ran before Mattel came into focus. You gals know more than me, that's for sure! But rule of thumb in vintage Barbie's is that proto-types have documentation showing that they were presented to the marketing department with the date the item ws presented, the name of the item, the item number and other such informatin on a postcard type of tag attached to the item.
Her face makes me think she is PM witht her eyes and virtually no makeup / coloring along with her coloring of hair, but the lighting is bad in the pic.. still that tag bothers me.. is this seen a lot on old PM Lissies???? Or is is possible that maybe she had a body switch? Hmm....????? The one and only PM Lissie I have ever seen in person, mine, does not have a tag, so I am hopeing someone else will be able to clear that up for me, too, for my own future reference.
I would be cautious until those questions were answered.. the full length shot sure makes her look like a CM Mattel Lissie.. but the close up shot really makes me think she is a PM Lissie.. The seller has 100% feedback and that says alot of good about them.. maybe email her and ask for more pics of her face.. ask if she can take the pics outside in natural light.
You can always get brave and just take a chance at that price.. you might end up with quite a treasure!
I think that the only thing I did was confuse you, hu? LOLOL!!!
I wanted to say something about that tag, too. My Felicity has no body tag. I bought her new in January, 1993. Until I read about prototypes on this Board, I assumed that all the early AGs (before Josefina) had no body tags. Now I'm not so sure. I would go by the hair color and whether you're in love with the doll or not.
Huh. My Felicity is a prototype, and she has no body tag.
But I'm no expert, so I don't know...
My Felicity, I believe, is PM. She came via Ebay exactly 3 years ago so I can't be absolutely positive of her age. She has pretty red hair, though not carrot red. Lissie's eye lashes are very soft and reddish brown. Her soft body is very cuddly but no body tag. The reason I think she was from the earlier production is that along with this doll came her maroon box, the band, a Meet Felicity book with four girls pictured on the back cover, book is dated 1991 with only the first 3 Felicity books released. The little Felicity brochure is copyright 1991. There's also a slip regarding materials used for packaging with a copyright date 1992. Didn't mean to ramble, but thought this may help some of you looking for PM Felicity dolls.
We have 2 PM Felicity dolls - one is mine, one is DD's. I purchased both from board members and do not know the original year of purchase. One has a 1986 body tag, the other does not. Both have clothing dated 1993. There are comparison pics of the 2 in my album:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2131967099
It is my understanding that some of the first run of the 1991 Felicity dolls came with the 1986 body tag. I don't know if that means they had been made prior to 1991 and were just sitting there waiting for release or what. But I have seen others on ebay with the 1986 body tag and have no reason to believe they weren't released with them - I don't think any body swapping has been going on. [img]wink.gif[/img]
BEcca,
Thanks for the info.. that clears things up for me as far as the body switching goes..
I would bet that they had an overabundance of bodies already made and that is why we saw them with the '86 tags.. that would make sense..
Does anyone know anything more about these 'prototype' Lissies? What exactly is ment when Lissies are refered to as prototypes? From designers I have talked to, usually a prototype is a sample created by the artist that was presented for approval for manufacturing. Usually prototypes are one of a kinds. Obviously, this is not what is ment when Lissies are refered to as Prototypes.. can someone help me better understand the 'going's on' with Lissies being refered to as that.. I am confused...
Thanks gals!
Angie,
I think the ones that are referred to as "prototypes", are the very first run of dolls released.
Now I don't know if that means the ones with the 1986 body tag or not. And again, I don't know if these dolls had been made up prior to 1991 (in anticipation of an earlier release date) and then held until the actual release in 1991.
Or maybe there were Felicity dolls that the Gotz company made up for Pleasant Rowland prior to 1991 and that was the first run of dolls released - hence they are called prototypes? I don't believe you will ever find a Felicity with any paperwork labeling that particular doll as a "prototype".
Oh!! Okay..that makes sense to me now! [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] Thanks Becca.. then they are actually 1st Run dolls and not prototypes at all.. that makes sense to me now.
Well, I dont know what I have, but she has brilliant red hair and no tag.. she has a smaller body that is a lighter shade of tan and her arms and legs are the soft squishy vinyl like that of the really old dolls. I wonder what she is.. I will may never know.. I know I love her though! LOLOL!!! Geesh, you are good at this... I know who to run to if I have a question.
Wouldn't 1986 bodies be white though? I thought all Felicity bodies were tanned. So it doesn't seem they would be premade...
Or perhaps I misunderstood.
I dont know anything about white bodies... that is why I was asking about it all to help me get cleared up on it.. how many years did they have the white bodies? I have seen where a lot of people ask sellers on auctions what color the lissies' bodies are.. and I, like you, thought that all Lissies had tan bodies.. Could it be that the tags are just signifying a copyright date maybe? I dont know.. ?????? [img]confused.gif[/img]
edited for my lousey spelling! LOL!
<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ August 29, 2005 08:05 PM: Message edited by: GillyGals ]</font>
Well, I think they knew they could not release a white body Felicity doll because her dresses had lower necklines and the white body would show. I honestly think (don't know for sure though), that there were Felicity dolls made up by Gotz for Pleasant Rowland prior to Felicity's 1991 release and for whatever reason they put that 1986 body tag on her.
Angie~ You're gonna make me blush! [img]redface.gif[/img] I sure don't know everything about the PM Felicity dolls, but I read everything I could find on this message board regarding them before I started my search for my Felicity. I guess I'm just like a big sponge - LOL - soaked all that info up!
Go to this website and read about the history of Pleasant Company - gives you some background and an idea of when the body colors changed. (I knew I had read this somewhere - LOL)
http://www.midnightmo.com/AGdolls/Co.../Main/main.htm
Becca,
I guess I just got lucky with the doll I got.. I knew that the really bright red hair on these dolls was a sure sign of a VERY early issue of Felicity and the redish auburn eyelashes too. I can tell when I hold a doll in my hands just by feeling her, if she is Pre Mattel.. they have smaller bodies.. well the early ones do.. and their arms and legs are soft vinyl.. the new dolls are very hard. Call me crazy, but I noticed this when Iwas sick this past winter with the flu and I had my 'Holly' doll with me in bed while I watched TV.. I am such a little girl inside.. LOL! She felt differently in my arms.. they are more cuddly, the older PM dolls, dontcha think? And smaller too!
I have no idea how long they used white bodies for (although I am almost positive they stopped when lissie was released for all dolls.) But I got my tan body Kirsten for Christmas in 1989.
Angie,
My Lissie (with the body tag) is "lighter" than DD's Lissie (she's actually kinda chunky - shhhh!). And my Lissie has the brighter red hair also. I must confess that Felicity is my favorite!
I also prefer the PM dolls to hold. I think they just feel sturdier or something, and I LOVE their soft, natural looking eyelashes.
Late in 2000 or early in 2001 my friend showed me her AGOT doll. I'm sure that doll was purchased directly from AG and she had a body tag "Made in Germany." If I remember right my friend's doll came wearing the red vinyl jumper. My AGOT (came via Ebay) in Feb. 2001 has a body tag Made in Germany for Pleasant Company c.1986. Her vinyl is not as soft as my old Lissie's. Could be they were using up a large supply of the cloth bodies that took quite some time to deplete. I really don't think they were switching body parts or misrepresenting anything, just using their supply.
Auntie Barb~
I think that is the most logical explanation as to why some of the later dolls have this 1986 body tag. I mean it just wouldn't make financial sense for them to toss out perfectly good doll bodies because of that dated tag. I don't think anyone is swapping bodies either.
You have all got me inspecting my dolls very closely. My Lissie has auburn eyelashes and no body tag, with a dress marked 1993.
My white bodied Kirsten is marked 1986 "Made in West Germany".
My tan Samantha has a "Made in West Germany" meet dress.
from what I am gathering here tonight.. that date means absolutely nothing as far as when the doll came out.. from what you gals are saying.. the tags read "Made in 'wherever' for Pleasant Co. C 1986" This means that is the date that the name "Pleasant Co." ws copyrighted.. this has nothing to do with the release date of the doll..
I thinkt that what was suggested above is exactly what happened.. they had an overabundance of these tagged bodies.. they used up their stock before manufacturing new ones. I agree, it makes financial sense for a company to do that rather than to throw them out.
Angie,
I think that pretty much sums it up! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
It makes me crazy trying to sort it all out though. I think the soft eyelashes are the one thing for me that tells me the doll is for sure PM. Other than that - body tags, dates on clothes, etc. don't mean much more than whether or not it is PM or Mattel. I don't think you can get an exact purchase/sold "year" from the tags.
Becca,
That is like the Barbies that are out.. the ones from the 80's have 1966 on their backs, but that is only because that is the year that body was trademarked. I am quite certain that this type of 'mark or copyright is the same across the board for other doll manufactures. I am glad we got to talking about all this.. makes perfectly simple sense to me now. : )
Considering that things are now being tagged 2008, I would not be surprised that there are all kinds of 1986 tags out there that are not in fact from 1986. I think they had a billion '86 tags and used them all up before they reprinted.
For the record, my 1991 Felicity has no body tag.
~Abby
I noticed that on the new tags there is that 2008 number.. but there is no way that is a copyright date.. I think it is coincodence. You can not copyright something for 2008 when it is only 2005.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Abby,Quote:
Originally posted by Calyndra:
Considering that things are now being tagged 2008, I would not be surprised that there are all kinds of 1986 tags out there that are not in fact from 1986.
~Abby
I think you are exactly right.. this is the reason we see all these lovely 'vintage 1966' Barbies on eBay when, in fact, they are dolls with a Superstar face sclupt that were produced in the 1980's, but there are still people that think these dates are the "Be All, End All" when it comes to dolls and actual manufacturing dates.
This would also explain why brand new dolls have Pleasant Company heads, I would guess.
ETA - enough time had passed that my post seemed out of context; I was referencing the posts about how it seems Mattel/PC was just using up the materials they had onhand, rather than tossing them for the sake of a seemingly "outdated" tag or stamp.
<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ August 29, 2005 09:11 PM: Message edited by: AGCrayZee ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, from what I understand, that face sclupt was purchased by Pleasant Rowland from Gotz expressly for Pleasant Co. So, that is why the Pleasant Co is on the back of them all and then, natrually when she sold to Mattel, they would, in turn, hold the rights to that facial sclupt. They may have made new molds from the older ones, which would explain why the new dolls faces are a tad larger, thus the larger eyes. Besides, Mattel has kept their name out of the public view in regards to this company, which is probably why they have left that alone. We may see that change in the future to American Girl being on the back of the necks. I bought a Josephina less than a year ago and she had American Girl on the back of her neck, not Pleasant Co, which makes me wonder what is going on there. I am sure that it is a copyright issue.Quote:
Originally posted by AGCrayZee:
This would also explain why brand new dolls have Pleasant Company heads, I would guess.
The only thing I would rely on regarding a body tag, clothing tag, or hair care tag would be the country where that part or piece of clothing was manufactured. I think AG is obligated to represent that accurately. I'm guessing AG has used several vendors to keep up with demand. The dolls have been made in Germany, U.S.A., and China so far that I know of.
I didnt know that they were made in Hungary until just recently.. I had always thought it ws just China and Germany. I guess you go where the cheap labor is when you are looking to mass produce something.
Lorie said that my Felicity was used in photography, like maybe she was one of the models that Pleasant Company used for catalogues, etc. That would make her a prototype I think.
A true prototype is a one of a kind.. it is the item that was presented to manufacturing and most always has minor differences from the doll that was actually produced.. things such as the type of lace, print of fabric, type of ribbons used.. things like that. Prototype dolls are dolls that were presented and then the marketing dpt makes changes according to what would be cheaper to produce or what types of materials the company already has on hand. Most always, there documentation that came with the doll. I have several very good friends that have designed under Mattel as well as companies such as Intergrity Toys and I was contacted to design for Paradise Galleries earlier this year.
<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ August 29, 2005 10:58 PM: Message edited by: GillyGals ]</font>