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I'm writing an article on tunes with weird intros that make it hard to tell where "one" is, like Rock and Roll (Zep) and Start Me Up (Stones).
I have a couple dozen tunes I'm considering, but wondered if anyone here knows any others. In particular, I want newer Rock, Metal or Punk stuff, or tunes that begin with drums. I already have lots of classic Rock (Van Halen, Hendrix, Zep, etc) already.
Thanks.
Hmm...interesting topic. I was thinking of that first song off of Graceland when the tom hits come in. Maybe I am just dumb, but that one always messed with me. Also the beginning of "Take It Easy" by the Eagles can be strange if you hear the first note as the one . "Murder By Numbers" by the Police has a tricky little hi hat intro too. I'll try to think of more!
DUDE!!!
A couple weeks ago I saw this CD at my friends, and I snagged it because I lost mine a long time ago. No kidding, every day in the car I listen to most of it at least once. Yes 90125.
The song I was thinking of is CHANGES. The intro is so awsome!
4/8 3/8 then 4/8 3/8 3/8. Or of course
2/4 3/8 then 2/4 6/8, Whatever.
Hands down one of the all time best recordings in my book. The Trevor Rabin era is my favorite Yes era I think. Big Generator and Union are cool, but 90125 rules them all.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Man, Charlie plays the snare drums on the one for starting "Start Me Up", bass drums on the 2 & 3, and back on the snare on the 4, I think that it's very brillant !!!Quote:
Originally posted by Vdrummer:
I'm writing an article on tunes with weird intros that make it hard to tell where "one" is, like Start Me Up (Stones).
It's one of the reason that I think that he's one the greatest !!!
Nice idea Vdrummer.
And yeah Steve, the Yes's stuf are AWESOME !!!
Produced by the great Trevor Horn, some nice work here.
Peace.
1.) Mad about You (Sting) -- For some reason, when I first heard this it was easy for my ear to get off on this.
2.) The West Side (Phil Collins) -- He comes in emphasising the upbeat.
3.) Spirits in the Material World -- Same thing here.
Badman's Song, Tears for Fears. Manu Katch?.
Actually, technically not that hard to hear "one" at the start if you pay attention to his left foot - but it's confusing at first hear, until the count-in... and you can lose it halfway through the intro if you're not careful too.
Manu. Word.
The electric piano intro on the Doobie Brothers' "Minute by Minute" is always a hard one for me to locate the downbeat.
And there's a goofy song called "Woman Tonight" on America's Greatest Hits, where I can never find one until they go to the bridge:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/B000002KHS/
Cool topic!
Mr. A.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 31, 2005 07:27 AM: Message edited by: Mr. Acrolite ]</font>
There's this 80's hit single from Billy Ocean called "When the going gets tough...". I remember it having a strange intro. OK its all programmed drums, but I'm sure that drummers playing in Top 40 bands back then had some problems figuring that one out. [img]wink.gif[/img]
Steve Holmes,
Thanks for the link to "Interracialmatch.com".
When is this board changing?
Chris
The beg. of Celestial Terrestrial COmmuters has a really cool fill.
Over the Mountain by Ozzy has that triplet fill.
There's a song on Siamese Dream that has a tasy little fill, Quiet.
But maybe all of those are a little too obvious as to where the downbeat comes in...Mudvayne has some interesting beats, but I can't make it through a whole disc of theirs.
Soundgarden, Rusty Cage? That whole beat sometimes has me scatching my head.
Of course, the grandaddy IMO, I Don't Care Anymore, by Phil, that is one beat that definitely "flips"...ABACAB has a few on there too, IIRC.
I'll try to think of some more.
Jesus Lizard, check those guys out. They had a great drummer in the Dave Grohl vein, I think Grohl lifted from him is more like it.
Hey Guys,
Do you know Phil Collins's "I cannot Believe Is True" ?
He plays a incredible intro !!!
I didn't know for longtime how the Guys could start the song together until that I saw a live with Chester giving a count...
Nice.
Hey cool topic.
Brad, are you talking about 'anacrusis' type beginnings like 'Keep It Dark' by Genesis (Abacab) where the guitar begins on an upbeat but sounds like a down beat?
The beginning of Jeff Beck's 'Led Boots' always kept me off guard.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 31, 2005 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Clintuplet ]</font>
I used to know a bunch, but for some reason I'm having a bwain-fot ATM...
I know these aren't all strictly drum intros [some are gtr or keybd riffs which start on an 'odd' beat for the drums to come in with], or aren't necessarily NU-metal, punk, or rock, but here goes anyways...
Bear with me; these are from 'ancient memory,' so if any of you see any mistakes you can call me on 'em [img]wink.gif[/img] ...
Howzabout CWatts on the ["more!"-] cowbell & sn intro to the Stoned's Honky Tonk Woman. To a listener that could be a little weird sounding coming in.
Gino Vanelli Live Montreal '89/90 - Brother to Brother intro. Enzo began the tune w a tom fill starting on the 'ah' of 2...you would prob want to start this tune live w either a 2/4 or 4/8 ct, or a 6/4 ct [depending on how quick/good your bandmates are] [img]wink.gif[/img] ...
DLRoth [from VHalen]'s hit AOR rock tune "Going Crazy" started w a gtr riff that begins on the '+' of 1 in 8/8 [4/4].
The CCEB tune 'Charged Particles' off 'Beneath the Mask' has that keybd intro in 7/8 [a first or "pick-up" note of 1/8 followed by 9 cycles of the 7 to overlay the 4/4 time] to which Weck comes in after drum fills covering 8 bars of 4.
Rush's 'Between the Wheels' off 'Grace Under Pressure' has the keybd chords starting the tune on the the 2 & then 4 [or, not starting on the 1], so that NP's drums sound cool coming in...he's accenting the keybd [2 & 4's] with rock flams on his lo tom & HHs on the '1 +'...[unless you prefer to count this tune's intro off in cut time]...
...& how about Limelight's intro off Moving Pictures with gtr & drum kicks...
Zep's RnR [on the live album] starts on the '&' of 3. [Even GB's notation in his clinic handout was a little too complicated...this explan. is MUCH easier to understand]. [img]wink.gif[/img]
Ditto on Yes's 'Changes' intro: it is indeed drums in a subdivided 17/8 over Rabin's 4/4 gtr rhythm pattern...VERY hip. FANTASTIC album, as are BG & Union...& i'll throw in TALK for good measure. If you don't have Talk & you're def a "nu-Yes" fan, you need to check it, esp the "Talk" end suite. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
I indeed love Howe [aft all, he's a founding & staple member!], but i really dug the works w Trevor AW. [img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 31, 2005 01:47 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
Loud Love by Soundgarden, I think that's the tune, from Louder than Love.
Porcupine Tree has to have something like this...Dream Theatre?
Meshuggah? Disturbed? Where Eagles Dare by Iron Maiden. How about Alice in Chains...there's one song I'm thinking of that has a drum opening, more of an acoustic song.
GH plays a real out fill on Dodgy Boat from Wardenclyffe Tower.
To Steve's point about 90125, I always found it funny that back in the early '80s, when everyone was raving about Weckl's "playing backwards" (beat displacement), it was there all along in Alan White's playing on "Hold On", off 90125. The middle section, he displaces the beat, and I always thought that was so cool. When I found out what Weckl was talking about, it was like "Oh! You mean the thing Alan White did on Hold On?".
Also, what about Alan's blazing singles on "Cinema"? That tune still sends shivers down my spine, between Alan, and Squire's, phase-shifted bass playing....
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah Man, this album is really a must have !!!Quote:
Originally posted by BennyAndTheSkins:
To Steve's point about 90125, I always found it funny that back in the early '80s, when everyone was raving about Weckl's "playing backwards" (beat displacement), it was there all along in Alan White's playing on "Hold On", off 90125. The middle section, he displaces the beat, and I always thought that was so cool. When I found out what Weckl was talking about, it was like "Oh! You mean the thing Alan White did on Hold On?".
Also, what about Alan's blazing singles on "Cinema"? That tune still sends shivers down my spine, between Alan, and Squire's, phase-shifted bass playing....
What about "Our Song" ?
Alan White is really a great musician, one of my favorites.
I was really glad to met him at the Namm 2004.
Yeah, Going for the One is another wierd intro. I think it's in five.
And where's the Bruford???
What about the Tune Bruford wrote for the Burning For Buddy album? That was pretty wild..
Everything In Its Right Place By Radiohead is pretty hard to decifer, and it doesn't help that it's in 10/4 (at least, that's how i hear it).
King Twang by Vital Tech Tones is pretty weird too - it starts with what you think are 8 16th notes, but in fact it starts on the second triplet 16th note of the "and" of 3 of the previous bar (what???), and then the guitar and bass play what i reckon is a shuffle, except Steve Smith plays triplet quarters over it and that makes you think that what he plays is the pulse. And to top it off, the last of the phrase is actually 13/8 rather than 12/8, so the whole thing is then pushed forward by one triplet. ARGH!
Yeah, Yes 90125 Hold On has the cool rock 4's layered over the 6's! DITTO on Our Song & Cinema! That whole album shook the rockin' haus. [img]cool.gif[/img]
"Meshuggah?" - yes; the tune Future Breed Machine has a cool-trippy dr intro. Don't know the disc name, you'll have to google ;op...
How about writing out Rush's Spirit of Radio intro off Permanent Waves, w the bass & drums hits/licks over the 16th-note gtr arpeggio/rhythm-lope...
I believe GH's intro fill on Dodgy is 2 bars of 4/4 [I'm not counting in cut-time like i sometimes do to make it sound a little easier count of the band]: starting on the 1, w the [3 rack-] toms on the +'s of both the 4 awa 1, and then again on the 3...he'll correct me if i'm wrong! That's the way i count it anyway! ;op
I also always liked Chad's little pick-up fill intro on the 1st track off AH's/Wardenc T, "5 to 10"...16th note fill starting on the either the + [or ah] of 3 - i haven't decided which sounds best yet! If on the [3-] + as it sounds, it occupies 2 16th triplets, w an 8th rest [2 16ths] occupying the + and ah of 4...or if you would prefer starting it on the ah of 3, which would be tom on the ah, sn's on the 4 e, tom on the + of 4, 16th rest on the [4-] ah. What would you do Brad ;o] [if you have this disc]?
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 31, 2005 05:07 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
"Sideways Blues", by Vital Information, off the "Show Them Where You Live" Album. Steve's doing a swing pattern super-imposed over a triplet feel. Wierd.
Toto's "Waiting For Your Love", Jeff is very inspired, as always...
Yeah !!!
I don't think Brad's necessarily just after intros in odd time - more intros where it's hard to latch onto "one" or otherwise get a fix on the groove. For example, I was tempted to suggest the intro to Spin Doctors "Refrigerator Car" which is Aaron Comess playing a deeply groovy thing in 9, but it's easy to hear "one."
The intro to Van Halen's "Jump" always stumped me.......
[img]wink.gif[/img] Just Kidding......
Another intro thing that has always thrown me is Bozzio's unison intro on the title track of UK's 'Night After Night'. It has a weird 'floating' syncopation that is tough to grab a hold on.
Also, I know you said Rock, but Tony's lick at the intro to Stanley Clarke's tune 'Power' on his debut album is a stumper AW.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 31, 2005 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Clintuplet ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">HA HA!!Quote:
Originally posted by BennyAndTheSkins:
The intro to Van Halen's "Jump" always stumped me.......
[img]wink.gif[/img] Just Kidding......
Seriously good topic here. Speaking of 'Jump', the beginning of 'Panama' was interesting to figure out (starts on + of 2, right?), as was Zep's R+R ( + of 3).
Funny story-
A cover band I was in did CT's "I Want You to Want Me". I knew that Bun E. started his intro with the snare playing pick-ups "+ 4", and that the kick came in on one. So, during the first rehearsal, I count it off "1, 2, ah 123" and hit the pick-ups. Well...the guitarist threw up....the only way he could feel it was if, in his mind, the first snare hit (the + of 3) was beat one, and then he would, using some twisted guitar-player logic, figure out when to come in. Sheesh..... [img]smile.gif[/img]
-sb
LOL
I had a similar 'encounter' w a lead gtrst/voc around '89/90 in the intro to the cover tune Goin' Crazy [80s [img]redface.gif[/img] , Halen's DLRoth]...he thought the 1st note of Vai's gtr intro started on 1, but it doesn't, it's on the [1] +...he could never get the count in right [to bring in the drums & bass], & i refused to count it incorrectly to bring the band in, as it's just not the right way to do it, & not the way you're musically trained, & because he was simply just too proud & arrogant [read: whole-of-artse] to be taught the correct way. I tried politely to explain what i was doiing but he just wasn't having it. He didn't want to be 'showed up' in front of the other band members [which was in no way how i was handling it nor what i was doing - it was HIS trip]. Galdurned rock gtrsts [I know; "let it GO, gamg"...eh, twas good remembrance for a little appropo story]... [img]wink.gif[/img]
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The gtr-solo section of Jump always seemed to me to actually help "make" the tune itself... [img]wink.gif[/img]
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Ah, Clint; now that you mention it, UK's tune The Only Thing She Needs off Danger Money has this cool TBoz drum intro, then into a killer synchop'd hits-intro-section w just keys/bass/kick drum in unison, actually in 4, altho it sounds 'polyrhythmically' weird because it's just the hits/kicks], b4 Jobson's keybd rhythm kicks in over those for the same 2 bar section into the head...for those of you who MAY be familiar w this tune, if i rem correctly, the accents during this second [16th note organ rhythm-] part of the ens hits were [no notes played in parentheses]:
[1] + 2 a [3] e [4] e a [1] a [2] e [3] e a [4] e + [repeat]
...I figured out the synch-count to the first sectn [said hits that begin right after the drum fills intro, b4 the organ rhythm kicks in] years ago, but I'd have to go back & listen again to rem it...if i can find the mp3 in a mountain of quasi/semi-catelogged CDRs... [img]wink.gif[/img] [See edit below]...
Re: UK_DM_TOTSN - OK, [I think] the ensemble syncho-hits [keybd "vibe" sound/bass/kick drum] in the 2nd part of the intro [after the initial drum intro, & b4 the organ rhythm kicks in] fall on [discount notes in parenthesis - only there to see the count; 2 bars of 4 [or 8/4], in 16ths:
[1] + a [2] + a, 4 e, [1] + a, 3 e, [4] e
then repeat [& continue through/under Jobson's 4/4 organ rhythm over the top, which also starts on the + of 1, which i listed firstly, above]... [img]cool.gif[/img]
If you were to write out these ens accent/hits AWA the organ rhythm, you can better see where they fall together. Sounds very "different," especially considering the time period it was released ['79].
The middle of the tune has this killin' section in a triplety feel which starts w a piano sound 'arpeggios.' Some vintage jammin' fusion-rock TBoz. Some great classic TB toms fills too that might even sweat NP fer sure... ;o]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 31, 2005 09:09 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh yeah! Good call Fuse. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img]Quote:
UK's tune The Only Thing She Needs off Danger Money has this cool TBoz drum intro...
bows head [img]redface.gif[/img]
When the band comes in after the drum intro in the song "I Want You to Want Me" by Cheap Trick...I always seem to miss the hit. I get thrown off because my "one" is somewhere else when starting the intro. I "hear" it somewhere else...much to the dismay of my band members!
BTW, great call on the guitar solo in "Jump"...some non-run-of-the-mill drumminmg there, but fits real nice.
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<font size="1">I wish Angie Harmon played drums so she would ask me to give her drum lessons if I was qualified to teach drums and if she would even give me the time of day which she wouldn't so I'm going to keep on practicing so I can be qualified to teach drums so Angie may ask me to teach her when she is ready to play the drums. Um....</font>
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ August 31, 2005 11:59 PM: Message edited by: harmonized ]</font></font>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 01, 2005 12:15 AM: Message edited by: harmonized ]</font>
I edited my above post for that UK intro, whatever.
The gtr solo section in Jump is in 8/4 [2 bars of 4; duh], altho because of where the drums accent it makes it sound a little more jagged/staggered & more interesting for a rock tune. Something like [accents]:
1 2+ 4+ [1]+ [3]+ ...
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 31, 2005 09:22 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>
My hosting service is giving my webmaster the runaround with getting the new forums working with MySQL. It's been on "any day" status for weeks now. There's not much I can do, but I do suspect it coming soon.
Thanks guys, keep them coming.
Some of the submission ideas here are new to me, and I'll check them out.
Benrand - Yes, Jesus Lizard is cool, I've been to their shows too.
Unfortunately, no one knows who they are if I write about them.
Anyone have any newer tunes that have intros that mess your counting up? Rock, Punk, Metal - or any at all? Thanks!
Brad
Hey all, thanks again. I see lots of forgotten tunes and creative ideas. Keep them coming.
Just to narrow the focus and clarify it a bit, odd times aren't out, but since I already have a couple of odd time tunes, at this point I prefer 4/4 stuff simply because it's really about how your perception of the beat is deceived - not just a weird beat in an odd time that's hard to play. It has to be at the the start of the song, and it doesn't matter which instrument causes the misperception.
It can be drum intro's like Beck's Led Boots, Zep's R&R & the Crunge, or the Stones Start Me Up (already did them), to songs where the guitar or other instruments deceive you into thinking one is someplace other than where it is. Popular songs are less likely to be deleted from the article in editing, so I'm favoring those. For that reason, I'm not focusing on Prog Rock, or Jazz stuff since lots of that material is designed to trip you up. The Eagles Take it Easy is another tune on my list because it sounds easy until you try to play it - then instant trainwreck.
I already have lots of Van Halen etc., and stuff from the 80's and earlier, so at this point I'd love some more recent stuff. I have more than enough for the article already, but I didn't want to finalize it until I got some input from you guys. You guys always know so much and have a depth of knowledge and influences that always keeps me informed. Thanks again!
What about Patitucci's "Spaceship" with Vincente !!!
Ozzy Osbourne - No more tears, funny bass intro, after the second time you know but I was suprised when I wanted to hit the one.
Toss Panos' intro to Fear Of Poverty (Blue Horn CD, released in 2000) is a little whack, a slowed-down tribute to Bonzo's Rock and Roll.
About those Stones songs:
Start Me Up was done about 17 times before the Stones abandoned it. The first two takes were rock, the last 15 (or so) were reggae. The famous intro (take 2) was a mistake, which isn't the only mistake in the song: there's guitar and back-up vocal flubs too. Why does it sound so cool? Jagger discovered take 2 among a mile of tape, thought it was a gem, re-did the vocals and mixed the tune without the Stones' knowledge. Keef said the band was delighted at what he'd done. It was by accident, not by design.
Honky Tonk Women is a first take with Jimmy Miller playing cowbell and Watts on drums, which may be why it sounds the way it does. They were going to use it as a guide track but could never improve on it. Miller actually played drums on the master tracks of You Can't Always Get What You Want, Shine A Light, and Happy.
How about Zeppelin's "Black Dog".
I used to play Black Dog in a band I was in with a guitarist we called Semi Page. Eye contact was sufficient for the intro, pauses and breaks, without the stick click. A very arbitrary song with very orchestrated parts.
There's a bootleg of Zeppelin rehearsing Black Dog for LZ4 where Bonham substituted a five stroke roll for the first of the seven drum notes that start the beat before minimizing that to a single hit. It worked but sounded cluttered and I'm sure that's why he changed it.
The Long Run by the Eagles has a little odd drum into. Life's been good from Joe Walsh too.
Too bad I don't listen to the radio anymore. [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good call, JP.....the bass starts on the +a of 4 on that one, right? And he's changing his pattern every bar or so...cool stuff!Quote:
Originally posted by JPtheDrummer:
Ozzy Osbourne - No more tears, funny bass intro, after the second time you know but I was suprised when I wanted to hit the one.
-sb