New Stevie Wonder record

I've listened to it a couple of times. And i must say, that there's alot of Programmed stuff, that just kills me in pure boredom, The tunes is all great etc. but man... I miss those Dynamics more than everthing when i hear the tunes.

Anyways, those with real instruments on are really cool, most of tracks are done by Ricky Lawson - Teddy Campell does a few too. Nathan East on Bass etc. Some good earcandy there!.

But Again. When are this Programmed stuff gonna end, It doesn't even sound great to me, it has just been accepted as a producer'ish thing to use today. [img]graemlins/thumbs_down.gif[/img]

You know, after hearing some samples I would have to agree. I guess it was foolish of me to think that an accomplished musician like Stevie would stay away from "computerization" and over-production. I'll have to listen to the entire thing, but already I guess I'm a little disappointed. From your description it sounds like some of the tracks found on the Prince's "musicology". Hmmmh... [img]redface.gif[/img]

Remember, programmed drums upset mainly drummers. Normal people could care less. I have a nice drumset and microphones, but most of my studio work is playing electronic drums, using DFHs, and programming beats.
It's quick and easy to get a better sound from DFHs, easy to edit, and cheap. Maybe Stevie should get DFHs, cause it's very hard to tell the difference from real drums, especially when played thru a TD20.

I believe the new record was released today. Has anyone picked it up? I remember a sample of the first single being posted here some time ago. After this album has been pushed back so many times, I am really eager to go pick this up. I love Stevie~

I realize that flamtriplet, so I guess I can't really critisize the album for not satisfying my "demands" as a drummer. However, considering Stevie is a drummer himself, I was hoping for some great drum tracks from him, not a machine.

This over-produced computerization as you put it really annoys me too. I love R&B, and hip-hop, and neo-soul, the sound of one of those bands live is nothing else. Huge fat electic bass sound, nice big fusion kit, with a fat bass drum and a high pitched crisp cracking snare. Insanely fast powerfull tom fills. Nice airy synth or fender rhodes. Its the funkiest rhythm section you'll hear these days. It hits you right in the gut! You see these awesome R&B groups on TV with live rhythm sections like these, and you think 'man this sounds sweet' and you buy the CD, and its nothing but light-weight tinny little over-produced drum machine tracks and VST basses designed specifically not to induce any kind of emotion from the listener. BAH!

EDIT: Yes, sorry, Stevie is great whatever, a genious perhaps! I'm sure the album is top quality from a compositional standpoint regardless of how much his producer has screwed it over.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 19, 2005 07:24 AM: Message edited by: elpatricio ]</font>

The Tunes are well written, some great Harmonic ideas and phrasing etc. And it just saddens me that it doesn't get the Final touch of Dynamics and care from a Drummer. It's Soooo monotomous listening to.

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Originally posted by Suspiria:
I realize that flamtriplet, so I guess I can't really critisize the album for not satisfying my "demands" as a drummer. However, considering Stevie is a drummer himself, I was hoping for some great drum tracks from him, not a machine.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For me, it dissappointing getting an accomplished artist's CD and it having computer drums. I can deal with it in rap and some pop. But in jazz, it wastes me.

I can name a few tracks on Vinnie's solo album, Jimmy Haslip's solo album (jazz?) with Erskine, Saint Germain's and Michael McDonald's Blink of an eye album with JR and Manu Katche combining electronic beats with live drums which are simply great. It is how you use it. I used to hate it but programmed alot for our band and started to like it.

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Originally posted by elpatricio:
I love R&B, and hip-hop, and neo-soul, the sound of one of those bands live is nothing else. Huge fat electic bass sound, nice big fusion kit, with a fat bass drum and a high pitched crisp cracking snare. Insanely fast powerfull tom fills. Nice airy synth or fender rhodes. Its the funkiest rhythm section you'll hear these days. It hits you right in the gut! You see these awesome R&B groups on TV with live rhythm sections like these, and you think 'man this sounds sweet' and you buy the CD, and its nothing but light-weight tinny little over-produced drum machine tracks and VST basses designed specifically not to induce any kind of emotion from the listener. BAH!

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I couldnt have put it better. I highly recommend looking into live DVDs or CDs of rnb/hip hop acts. Both the live album of The Roots and Jill Scott should really be in your collection.

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Originally posted by JPtheDrummer:
I can name a few tracks on Vinnie's solo album, Jimmy Haslip's solo album (jazz?) with Erskine, Saint Germain's and Michael McDonald's Blink of an eye album with JR and Manu Katche combining electronic beats with live drums which are simply great. It is how you use it. I used to hate it but programmed alot for our band and started to like it.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah Agreed, sometimes the programmed stuff does fill in some extra flavour. But Again the layer of Drums is beeing put on to give the tune Dynamics, and that's where they work great together.

I also enjoy drumming along to a sequencer etc. It fills in very well. But it's the progress of the Drummer that's in Focus in terms of dynamics not the Sequencer, and that's the big difference. I usually turn of the sequencer if we go out into a Solo in the outtro or something like that. Put a more dynamic and organic frame for the solist to work out on.

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I couldnt have put it better. I highly recommend looking into live DVDs or CDs of rnb/hip hop acts. Both the live album of The Roots and Jill Scott should really be in your collection.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great, I'll be sure to check those out. ?uestlove plays with the roots right? - monster! I also love gerald heyward's playing, I have a Beyonce tour DVD with him on it, he lays down some really nice grooves and his 13*7 snare has a serious crack to it. I thought a great showcase of this sort of sound was the Live8 gig in Philly. Destiny's Child and Stevie had awesome backing bands made up from some of the baddest sessions cats, and the Black Eyed Peas are just a great live band anyway. Their drummer is awesome, can't remember his name...
Oh year... and Carter with the Dave Matthews Band, Carter! What he does for that band is great but can't help thinking he'd fit into any other of the forementioned better.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 19, 2005 03:28 PM: Message edited by: elpatricio ]</font>

Man, thinking about this has reminded me just how good this stuff it. I just ripped two tracks off the Destiny's Child world tour DVD for everyone because they are such good examples of this sound. They both feature extended solo sections by the band at the end, and the second track ends with a drum solo. The drummer is a cat named Khari Parker and he sure knows a thing or two about laying down a groove.

http://s54.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3...H3FTDC81UXMN87


http://s62.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1...10M04TZVMBZV85

Remember, programmed drums upset mainly drummers. Normal people could care less

Yes and No.

I agree, the lower you go on the age chart and the more pop the music, the less discernable the listener will be (Britney Spears? general audience). But when you reach out to the more mature audience, in both age and musical sophistication, the more one detects human-less participation in production.

Then, on a more innate level (gut, deep down, etc) I believe right now that people (general audience and more sophisticated) really do notice. The music of the 70?s (R & B, funk, etc) had a soul that is missing today in electronic recordings. The ?too perfect? era has falsified the ?art? of music into something more unattractive. The general audience can only accept what they are given, like children at the dinner table.

We in here ?get it? and feel the difference immediately. We have opinions and passions about this. It pisses some of us off and disappoints. This is good. Change takes place as we express our feelings about music. It won?t necessarily hurt Stevie?s CD sales, but word does spread, especially today with the Internet and message boards.

For myself, I keep hearing Stevei's classic recordings, with that so very raw drum sound and feel from a guy who played with all heart. It's hard not to want to hear that from the guy even today.

Actually, I play for a Hip Hop band called Fresh City ( formely "Urban Poets" , www.urbanpoets.biz ) .
I just play the groove with almost no fills for the entire set.
We have a gig at the Temple Bar in Santa Monica on the 31st of October , I believe. That's a show witut any licks/chops. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Stevie NEEDS a producer!He still has those magic moments as far as melodies,arrangements etc...
But the drum tracks don't even sound good to me.Guess he's a control freak and doesn't want anybody to push the buttons for him.But some producers out there like The neptunes,Raphael Saadiq,or even Dre would have made a better job with just a MPC which is,by far,the best machine ever for that kind of music.
Like all of you i would have loved to hear more acoustik stuff on the album,but i got used somehow to listen to drum machines.The problem is they sound awful and out of fashion!Things are moving fast in the gospel-rnb-nu soul genre so you have to keep up and go with the flow,as far as sound and progs,if you wanna stand a chance.

Finally,as mentionned by some of you,nothing hits my gutts as hard as those killing bands from the rnb scene.Those cats are killers and i suggest once again,if ,like me ,you love Jill Scott's live album and all the other artists from that genre,rush to your local music store and get those amazing gospel artits' records.They all have amazing bands! [img]wink.gif[/img]

[quote]Originally posted by elpatricio:

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Great, I'll be sure to check those out. ?uestlove plays with the roots right? - monster!

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the uploading of those Destiny samples. Killing material. Allow me to return the favor...The following link contains some Jill Scott samples. Mainly the first disc will be of interest, since it features live drumming. Enjoy and let me know what you think.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=music

To finish things off, here's my favourite track on the Roots album. (You were right in pointing out that Questlove is on drums for this). He lays down the most insane 16th note groove for minutes on end...I don't know how he does it. For your listening pleasures....

You Got Me (Live)

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 19, 2005 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Suspiria ]</font>

My problem with the Destiny's Child Live dvd and a lot of other Neo R'n'B bands is, that the drummer is very busy. He is trying to catch every it and play setups and play fills and all that, that there is no 8 bars witout any fills. Especially the Mray J. Blidge with Heyward is one of the worst Live CDs I ever bougt, and I love Live CDs. I love the Janet Jackson DVDs and the roots Live CD as well as the Jill Scott, but sometimes the drummer play too busy FOR MY TASTE.
I also saw these guys at some Shows here in L.A. and I have to say, that they are Right on the beat and tight as hell, but the Soul is a little bit missing sometimes. They really play like the producer would program the beats, really machine like. I don't know if the music reaally need these fast 32 note fills every 4 bars. The Christina Aguileira Live DVD is another example. I also spent 75 $ (!!) to see Christina and Justin Live at the Staples, just to check out the backing bands and I was very disappointed with Christinas. There was no real funk in it and the Drumsolo was just Hand-hand-foot-foot and hand- foot combinations. No space for taking a little breather. Could have been Slipknot...
Justins band with 'Fish' on the other hand had balls as big as melons! :-) They really blew me away. Check out the Justin Live in London DVD , although you can't compare it to seeing him LIVE.

Again, this is just my taste, I guess.
My goa/dreaml is to play for someone like janet, Christina, Pink or Justin. But that's pretty hard to get calls for gigs like that, because they are all one big family and it's hard to get in there, especially when you're white. I know it sounds dumb, but unfortunately it's true.
Oh oh, what did I do...another post with a controversal statement... :-)

...a little off topic, but one guy rarely discussed as a total groove monster is Herman Matthews.
http://www.hermanmatthews.com

Catch him a Cafe Cordiale when in town.

HM is a great player. I saw him a couple of years ago with Tower of Power.

I agree on Drummadix, for example Thriller - MJ is still a great album, Bad has killer songs too almost all programmed and it sounds out of fashion already.

Justin's DVD pissed me off because I could hardly see the drummer. Usher live was great but I never saw Beyonce's and Janet's DVD's. Who is playing drums on Beyonce's? And who is playing drums on Janet's DVD?

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Originally posted by Oddtime:
My goa/dreaml is to play for someone like janet, Christina, Pink or Justin. But that's pretty hard to get calls for gigs like that, because they are all one big family and it's hard to get in there, especially when you're white. I know it sounds dumb, but unfortunately it's true.
Oh oh, what did I do...another post with a controversal statement... :-)

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Man, I totally agree, I love jazz but my dream gig would also be something like that. What you saying may sound controversial, but yeah unfortunately it is true. Most of these guys grow up in the church, and know all the right guys, its not just about them being black I guess, but just about the neighborhoods and churches that they grew up in, are plugged into this sort of work. I think its great and inspiring to see where these guys have got as musicians anyway considering a lot of them grew up in really rough neighborhoods and overcame all that. I am an atheist but I think what the church has done for this music is so important.

Another guy with great groove and loop-playing is Matt Chamberlain. Did you guys check out his new website?
He also has his CD out now, I think. He is really one of my favorite drummers.

Even though I agree that there is a little too much programming for my personal taste, still there are some great drumming moments on the new Wonder record. Teddy Campbell, Narada Michael Walden(!!) and Ricky Lawson all deliver top notch work!
And Wonder sings like noone else.
Man that voice -even after all these years...
Incredible!

Agreed Jeppe. Have you heard the track "from the bottom of my heart"? That has programmed drums and it sounds fine. Amazing track...That's what Stevie is all about for me.

Yup, great track.
Stevie is awesome.

MATT CHAMBERLAIN ROCKS! He played with Edie Brickel (if this is the same guy from SNL and Pearl Jam). He also did the Wallflowers record. The simple playing he did on One Headlight killed me. How can you resist hitting one friggin' crash?

Sorry..I know I'm new and all....just kind of got excited on that one.....

P.S. it's just too bad he plays DW.....

This was the big problem with Curtis Mayfield's last album, too, IMHO. Some great ideas, but the gosh darned cheesy drum machines. Why bother getting Aretha Franklin if you aren't gonn get Bernard Purdie? -Its not like these guys can't afford a top notch drummer. Even a loop of a live drummer is better.

Everyone thinks that drumming is so easy! Even a straight rock beat is so easy to play, but so hard to master. Even a looped pattern has a lt more going on han meets the eye (or ear) Dynamics, timing, tension/release ... its possible to do with a machine, but WHY? just get a good drummer who can do it - far easier.

One thing I liked about Stevie's own drumming groove was his loose feel - virtually unobtainable by modern electronics (and due, no doubt, in no small part to his unusual grip)