70s Phil Collins coulda been Cobham

Damn! I just got hold of a DVD of 70s Genesis in their pomp, and the drumming is just absolutly sensational! Truly wonderful stuff - Phil is singing most of the time but whenever he gets the chance he goes over to his huge Gretsch and joins in with either Bill Bruford or Chester Thompson, depending on the the tour, both of whom are also amazing.

He has a very light-agressive touch, Phil, and he makes odd-time signatures seems very smooth. He's always technically amazing wihtout ever sounding like he's showing off.

I truly belive, if we rewound to 1977 and Phil didn't turn into a singer-songwriter, he would have every bit as good a reputation as Cobham's work of that era. If anything I prefer Phil's playing - all the fire and chops but a little less 'look at me' if you know what I mean.

Did anyone here actually ever see Genesis with two drummers? I was born after the 70s and it was pretty much too late by then so I didn't. I wish I could go back in time!

Yes, I saw Genesis with Chester twice - once in Edinburgh (January 1977 - the tour featured on Seconds Out) and once at Knebworth (around 1980, I think).

If you want Phil with all the chops, check out Brand X.

Yeah Brand X certainly has shades of Mahavishnu in it, and amazing drumming of course.

Do you remeber anything about those shows?

Unorthodox Behaviour by Brand X is one of my favourite albums from that era, Phil Collin's drumming on that particular album is nothing short of phenominal, and way ahead of its time. I would advise everyone to check it out. In the track Nuclear Burn Collins burns it up and solos over 7/8 and then changes to 11/8, he plays crisp and clear ghost notes on the snare, and very clean fast rolls, as well as some nice hand/feet combos, comparisons to Cobham would be very accurate. The recording quality is also great.

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Originally posted by muskateer:
Do you remeber anything about those shows?

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I remember more about the first (Edinburgh) show - but they're mostly feelings and impressions now than specific detail. I mean, it was nearly 30 years ago ... many brain cells have been sacrificed to the ethanol monster since then.

Glad to see there are some others here who like Phil's playing. I agree with the comments about the Brand X stuff - really amazing...

muskateer - sounds like you are watching a vid of one of [if not the] Seconds Out time period tours?

Where did you [AWA can i] get [my grubby little mits on] a copy of this? [img]cool.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

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Originally posted by got_a_match_grip?:
Also, don't forget that Phil is one of if not THE most successful drummers of all time in terms of both artistically AWA financiallly

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">...and he's a left hander like me lol!

[img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 26, 2005 01:40 PM: Message edited by: elpatricio ]</font>

Phil did a great job on the Robert Plant stuff too.

Match - Phil isn't on Masques, it's all Chuck Burgi - who was my favorite of all Brand X's drummers.

Brad

Yeah the DVD is a combination of two shows, one from 76 and one from 77 (basically the end of the Golden Era before guitarist Hackett left and the band moved away from their prog roots). The first show, with Bruford, is actually a movie Genesis put out called "Genesis in Concert" or somesuch, and the second is with Chester but not as good (the sound gets LOUDER then quieter AT REALLY annoying TIMES...).

I'm afraid I got it from ebay (best 15 pounds I ever spent...) but they come up in some form or other fairly regularly there. Theres a 1980 gig on there at the moment which I'd love but can't afford. Highlight of my disc is certainly Dance on a Volcano into Los Endos, which, like on Seconds Out, is fantastic, truly awe inspiring! I just love it. Also double drumming on Cinema Show is incredible, really up-tempo.

I love the way they play almost in unison but have license to just do random fills whenever. I've played a little double drums before, and we found we pretty much had to be in unison or not, there was no middle ground or it sounded messy. I guess we weren't quite of Phil and Chester/Bruford's standard...

I just got hold of a bunch of live albums from that era (also ebay) and I'm just immersed in 70s Genesis at the moment, not really listening to anything else. Really, what else is there...?

Phil is one of my favorite drummers, not to mention singers/pop artists.

In my opinion, some of his best drumming can be found on "No Reply At All," "Cannot Believe It's True," "Abacab," and on Clapton's "August" album.

I love playing along with those Genesis tunes, and I remember working through those charts (out of the "Drumming Techniques of Phil Collins" book) back when I took lessons in grade school.

Seconds Out has been in my rotation of CD's for 15 years! Phil is a very gifted musician!

Whaddup, fellas [& 'fellettes']

HUGE Gen / BX / PC fan here.

Also check out the early Gen albums Wind & Wuthering & Then There Were 3 - hauntingly, staggeringly beautiful pieces of work; AWA Trick of the Tail, Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England By the Pound, Duke [awesome album ATT], Seconds Out [w fantastic work by Bruford on Cinemashow also].

AFA "progressive / epic / art rock," esp w a heavier "classical" vibe, & out of all those bands ATT, it is MHO that Gen was at the forefront of them all [Yes a close 2nd]. Their grandiose, huge "cathedral" sound & odd time sigs, & groove made for a great band. You either love em or ya hate em, depending upon yer tastes. Musically [compositionally] way ahead of most if not all of those prog bands back then.

They were 1 of the few more famous bands that successfully crossed over into pop such as Yes, Tull, Marillion, ELP, etc...Rush [AWA Kansas] was always a rock radio band despite leaning towards concept rock tunes in their early days, but they had a few "hits" from their beginnings to keep them on radio [Working Man, Fly By Night, Anthem, Beneath Between & Behind, In the End, 2112, etc], & altho I consider them a fave rock band ATT, Gen was way ahead both sonically AWA compositionally. [Remember, Neil was influenced by Phil AWA Cobham, Moonie, Giles, Brufe, White, CPalmer, Mick Mason, etc...prob a little Boz & Barrie in there too?!] ;-]

I have most of the early BX on vinyl [img]redface.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img] ;

Unorthodox Behaviour
Product
Livestock
Moroccan Roll
Masques [also w Chuck Burgi on some track]

& check Do They really Hurt [also some fantastic Mike Clark work, "DMZ!!"]; & Phil's grooving on Is There Anything About [title track to same-name album] is exemplary...

Also, don't forget that Phil is one of if not THE most successful drummers of all time in terms of both artistically AWA financiallly. That's not saying there are not "better" players out there, but it is what it says... [img]wink.gif[/img] In the context of all he did, it was considerable, formidable "talent."

Boomer, Bonzo, Lenny, a bit of BR, Weather R, a dash of Zappa, AWA some of the great English drummers in it ATT were a large influence on his playing...

Phil overall is a great drummer [AWA muso, singer, producer, engineer, businessman]... Most of his stuff is a blessing. I feel i was made a little the better because of his influence. [img]cool.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 26, 2005 01:05 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>

Woman in Chains by Tears for Fears with Oleta Adams singing and PC on drums [img]tongue.gif[/img]

In the spirit of the OP's subject line, here's a classic piece of "70s Collins as Cobham." It's the first minute or so of Hate Zone from the 1977 Brand X release Morrocan Roll.

There was a GREAT vid of 70's Genesis flying around DD a while back, the quality was amazing.

The Genesis MAMA tour was filimed in the UK and there is a video of an entire ABACAB show that I don't think has made it to DVD.

The Slippermen medley with Chest and Phil has some of my all time favorite drumming, right after tihs medley, they go into the drum duet. Both of those guys were really working out. Phil at one point plays this quintuplet paradiddle thing that was way over my head at the time, spent a long time trying to figure that thing out.

I remember seeing this on MTV and I was totally blown away by Phil. I knew Chester had beaucoup chops and was a fantastic player, but Phil did all these little ghost notes, played a burning 6/8 (or does it go into 9/8?) ride pattern with his ride hand that I didn't tihnk anyone could do.

Still blows me away when I see it, I get chills. I have this on VHS somewhere. The whole concert is great. Chester had that huge Pearl double headed kit with the really deep snare. WHat a snare sound.

Ha ha, yeah 'teer, this thread has me going now too

I just love the mess outta that older grandiose Gen; Wind & Wuth, & Then There Were 3, Seconds Out, Duke, etc...pipe it through yer sound system & punch the gas pedal...your hair will stand on end like the older Memorex[?] commercial...

V - right you are, dood, my bad; i was going off the top of my head, hadn't listened to in eons...I dig Burgi too. Katz AW!

mja - altho i prefer the prog Gen, u r right about the pop stuff. Even tho a bit of it is "time-period specific" [politically correct for, to some, out of date], it was still mostly really hip stuff for the pop genre. Also, PC's grooves [AWA da ghost notes [img]wink.gif[/img] ] on those solo albums of his were always a highlight...

Da** you guys. Now I need the proverbial Gen-prog fix.
You cats are responsible for a full-blown Gen "fall off da wagon"/relapse/withdrawal...[I'll see ya's in "the meetings"]...

Cheers. [img]cool.gif[/img]

amazon link

It's for the MAMA tour on VHS. Very cheap...worth every penny.