Jumping in .. maybe..

I've been contemplating leaving the corporate world and taking the plunge into drums and doing it full time. Teaching/gigging/sessions. Who out there is doing it? Anyone done it recently? I'm freshly married and the wife is down with it. If anyone is looking for advice on marriage... Find a hot musician and marry her!! Believe me!! anyways.. I have a mortgage and bills just like everyone else so making this step has to be financially sound before anything else. another question.. I'm looking to get into an agency to get some wedding/corporate gigs. Does anyone know of any services out there that I could get involved with as a sub and then maybe step into something full time? I'm in the Northeast but any names would get me in the right direction. looking for advice/tips/experiences........ Thanx in advance..

If you don't already have a steadily working band that you've been involved with for awhile, leaving a secure position with benefits, a new wife and a mortgage is just simply nuts. Sessions? Session work is tighter than ever. Work at finding a band for weekend work, and once you find the right one, do your finances and see if you could make enough from that to cover your expenses. Don't do it the other way around.

What V Drummer said!

I agree with Vdrummer also.

I've learned that it takes a lot more than talent and ambition to support oneself wholly in the music business. Yes, you can do it...but it's never been harder to do...

Ditto...It sucks but it's true. It's harder than ever to actually make a living JUST playing drums. The few guys I know that do it all supplement with teaching (where you can make some good bread), or just barely scrape by. Barely scrapin's sorta cool when you're young, but not when just starting a family as you are. Is there a way to combine your corporate experience into something drum/music related?

Musically, the only "sure-thing" out there is the military. Guaranteed pay, housing allowance, dental, medical, optical, retirement etc. Most of my work in the Navy was playing in jazz combos, rock bands and big bands.

Other wise, I'd say stay in the corporate world while building your music career, but don't let the day gig go until the music thing is looking really solid.

Good luck!

It's kinda ironic that this question was asked...
I just got accepted to University Il Chgo for jazz performance. The guy who heads the program is fairly well known, BUT its gonna cost around 16k AND Chicago is dry.

Drummin 1 says it sucks, wow that's an understatement

"What they all said!!!"

V has it right.

So does Andy w regards to the military.

If you haven't been or aren't already involved for a while in a serious musician network & can foresee gigs around the corner & up over the hill, don't look a gift horse in the mouth or jump ship to a smaller ship! [unless it's literally burning!]

Play in bands on the side in addition to your day gig, such as corporate functions/weddings/parties, or the occasional better club. SAVE AS MUCH DOUGH AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN FIRST, for your bills, or a move [if you want to re-locate your day-gig to a new town, also possibly w better gig opportunities as well], & THEN some left over for a buffer or emergencies. Get your daily life going & secure [as much as you are able] b4 u even attempt to think of it. OH yeah, & stay FAR away from excessive "saucers," & the "unlicensed pharmacists"...

A sure way to a youthful divorce is to attempt what you're thinking. Financial strain AWA an uncertain outlook on the future early on in a marriage is one of the primary factors in a split in the first 5 [to 10 years]. I'm half-jesting...IOWs; many truths are said in jest...

Majority rules. Nine to five like it or nuts. Sounds like you've got a nice life/wife. Why throw it away? All the stars that never were are parking cars and pumping gas. Don't bullshit yourself with "I coulda been a contender" syndrome.

A woman will grow to disrespect a man she's supporting quicker than he (or she) thinks. She comes home from work, he's still in his pajamas and "What have you done today, honey, except watch Jerry Springer?"

Disrespect=divorce. Mental anguish is tougher when you're looking for a job and a cheap apartment (the woman gets to keep the house.)

What 5/8 said! [img]eek.gif[/img]

Clear thinking is good.

It all depends on your priorities. Everything has a price.

We do what is most important to us. The facts that you've gotten a good job and are married suggests that these are important to you, perhaps more so than sharing an apartment with 8 other guys and living on ramen and mackerel while you establish yourself as a musician.

I would not pull the plug and bail right now. Don't jump ship until you have a lifeboat built, or a better ship to go to. These are doable, but they take careful planning, and luck (the intersection of preparation and opportunity). The good news is that you can plan, and act, rather than react. Ask yourself where you want to be in 20,15, 10, 5 and one ears from now. What will it take to get you there? Build this plan in conjunction with your spouse; buy in is important. If your visions don't match, better to adjust them now then 10 years later when you have 3 kids.

I know several world class musicians. Almost all of them have either a gainfully employed spouse, some kind of day gig, or both. Ralph Peterson is a Berklee professor. Gary Thomas runs the jazz program at Peabody. George Gray (THE reigning king of ALL net workers) is on the road a lot, and when he's home, he's a personal trainer to other musicians. Harold Summey went back on active duty, and is in the Army Band at Ft Belvoir, playing with world class musicians, and being a great dad. Dennis has no day gig, but he's gone from his family a LOT. My guess is that if you were to interview NY cabbies, you'd find a lot of guys who made records we love.

Most of the folks who do this full time and make a decent living at it started well before they were married, while they were could live on crackers and peanut butter. Vinnie moved to LA and lived in a car for a while.

Right now you have a mortgage and bills. How much would you have to bring in to meet your responsibilities? My guess is that $200/weekend (more if you tap in to a high dollar wedding band) won't cut it. Are you prepared to blow off the relationship, credit rating, medical insurance and housing in a decent neighborhood to pursue this at this point in your life? If not, then don't.

You can approach talent agencies and such, but I doubt they'll have much use for single drummers. You'll need to be part of a successful band. The way you do that is to establish a reputation as being a superb musician, team player, and reliable person. It's not enough to be bad -- folks have to know what you do, want it, and like you. That's not to say you need to have a brown nose, but if you don't make regularly meet new folks, and periodically stay in touch with the old, your phone won't ring. People hire those they know who will do a great job the first time, and who are great to be with.

For those of us who fall in the too dumb to quit category (guilty) there are some things you can do to increase the odds of meaningful musical involvement:

- study with someone who is great at what they do. Over time, they may throw work or recommendations your way. If nothing else, your efforts to improve your musicality will put you in good stead with others down the road. Also, if you have not already, pick up piano and theory.

- hit different open mics, regularly. Expect to kiss a lot of frogs, but for every 20 flakes, you may meet someone who can help you down the road. When you play, don't worry about being a great drummer; just play the music, and the drums will take care of themselves. Good musicians in the audience or on the stand will notice this. And don't hit the same ones week after week -- that sends a signal -- "this guy's no good, he has no gig." Hit them maybe 4 weeks apart.

- Find the bad asses in the idioms you prefer and check them out on the gig. Never ask to sit in (except at an open mic). In time, they may ask you about yourself. If they like you, they may invite you to sit in. If you do a good job, they may consider you as a sub in the future.

- if you can, keep your day gig and move to a major market. There will be more competition, but there will also be more opportunity to improve, either through great teachers, or the other musicians there who will kick your butt on jam sessions or gigs. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Also, there will be more opportunity to advance than might exist in, say, Manchester, NH or Waterbury, CT.

I hope this helps.

<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ November 04, 2005 04:29 AM: Message edited by: Riddim ]</font></font>

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 04, 2005 04:34 AM: Message edited by: Riddim ]</font>

Wow - I greatly appreciate the GENUINE responses! This community never ceases to amaze me. Makes me feel all fuzzy and stuff.. In any event, you all make very valid points. It's really a double-edged sword that we face. It will be hard for me to pick up 2 days worth of students (during the week) with a 40 hr/wk job. I'm workin it though. Right now I play from 2-6 gigs a month. I do some subbing and I do get "session" work here too. It comes in waves but it's around. I'm in at the "big" studio in central CT so I get some sessions and some residual gigs from that.
This was recently all spawned from an old drummer friend I've been hanging with recently. He's making it happen. He's in his late 30's , teaches 46 students 3 days a week and plays in a GB band. He's doing ok for himself. They do bar gigs, privates, corporates... anything.. So after seeing this and talking to him, it got the wheels going. I've carried up to 60 students so getting that side of it going would be one thing. The other side of it is getting some better paying (wedding/corp) gigs in an established band to drop in between my regular gigs. I'm just going to keep networking and pursue the students and start building that other ship. At some point I'll be able to make the jump. BTW - The guys and gals who are teaching, what are getting for rates? Thanx again.. Everyone here is great

Joe

30 Euro for one hour which is a little 40 USD for one hour.

WHAT RIDDIM SAID

He said what i was trying to say...only more in depth...& considerably better. [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]

We at HOD like drummers and we love to see them succeed. We're not playing devil's advocate with you, MOMK, but rather we're the voice of reason. It's sound advice grounded in experience and maturity. I don't know how old you are but there are so many people out there that love to see others fail! We don't want you to fail, MOMK, and we want you to live out your dreams. But we don't want an unhappy drum brother moping around nor would anybody here play that "I told you so!" card. We want you to be happy. Just check your parachute before stepping out of de plane!

Don't be displacing beats while she's displacing her affection.

And Riddem, you could probably sell your post as an article to MD. Well said! [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 04, 2005 06:05 PM: Message edited by: Five Eight ]</font>

I also know plenty of people (not just drummers) who probably play music they don't really care for or even despise for a vast majority of their gigs and also teach brats who take lessons so that mom can get a half hour break from the attitude etc. And they tell me, "hey, I'm playing my instrument for a living." But there's an awful lot of unhappiness happening with something that was intended to bring pleasure to one's life. Just something I've observed with some of my friends and coleagues and also something to consider.

Nice responses, especially Riddim's. Riddim, I think 5/8 is right--this post is a great basis for a guest column in MD or the like.

Balancing the desire to "make it"/be a "real" pro with having a happy life and home/relationship does seem to be the operative question. They don't always seem to preclude one another, but it seems they are often in conflict. Kind of like that NYC truism: how you can never have a good mate, job, and apartment all at the same time. You can have 2 out of 3, but as soon as you get the third, one of the other two has a magical tendency to slip away.

Good luck MOMK. I think 5 is right also that nobody here would like to see you fail--just the opposite. Barring obvious grudges, it seems like people cheer for each other and it's very supportive. Besides, you can teach us things by what you learn in the process. Thanks for opening the topic.

What 5 siad!

Rhythmatist - SOOOO true. I have a muso colleague, a fine jazz & fuso player who suffers this "one man/woman-is-an-island" isolationistic bitter grudge factor. I, knowing "them" for MANY MANY yrs, was also teetering on the verge of succumbing to the same vile demon by "familiarity of aquaintance"...

I have gotten to the point where i couldn't stand to play w them [if they would concede to jam at all! - gazillions of "reasons" for not], let alone be around them, let alone talk on the phone [worse! - then all sorts of things get wretchedly debated & out of control, including socio-political, as a result of rooted resentment in life!] "They" refuse to play out...not that anyone wants to be around the tood anyway, so unfort i think it works both ways [dbl-edged sword]. Which is a shame & a waste of a good life because they really are an excellent musician. [img]frown.gif[/img]

I can think of a quadragazillion ways why not to get out of bed in the morning [or afternoon/ evening for some!] & to depress myself...i don't need someone else's similar but worse demon helping out. I prefer to look at things differently & appreciate things i wouldn't normally, & not get caught up in all the "negative 'day to day'"...count yer blessings, yo...
Word.

BTW - Nice sentiment, ott. [img]cool.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 05, 2005 02:15 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>

You know that couple too?! [img]wink.gif[/img]

All I have to do is get up in the morning and watch the news. Then I go to my day gig knowing that my little corner of the world ain't so bad and if I get to play music that day it's just one more blessing the Lord has bestowed. And if I don't I'm surely not going to die over it. 9/11 really put it all in perspective for me. I realized a long time ago that music is not brain surgery. We don't save lives and contrary to those who write and sing the protest songs we really don't change the world unless your song makes tons of bread in which case you will enrichen the lives of a few industry moguls. But as of that day I began to enjoy playing more as I have simply enjoyed an appreciated life more. I still do get frustrated over silly things but I find I'm able to get over it faster. Our world may be going to hell around us but I'm not going to let that fact ruin my life as it is now. I have all those things my parents told me to be thankful for when I was a child. I can't understand how anyone would ever let something like music allow them to become miserable (unless you're Solieri in the shadow of Mozart). Don't get me wrong, I'm very serious about what I do but I will draw a line. I don't concern myself with what kind of music I play but rather the company I keep on the gig. And I've come to find the occasional flub more of an amusement and less of an annoyance. Mistakes are human and to me they become an adventure. It's more exciting to see the center fielder slip and turn it into a spectacular play than to see the routine catch. So what if the keyboard player shanked a couple notes in his solo? How did he recover? How did the rest of the band support him? Flawless execution is cool but to go out on a limb and see if it cracks just takes my breath away.

I ramble, therefore I must sleep. Good Night HOD'ers.

Thanks for the nice words, folks. A spell checker is a beautiful thing.

Something else you might want to do:

- Get a cell phone with a 212 or 718 area code.

- Go to NYC once a month and hit the early in the week jam sessions. See how vicious the competition is or isn't. If you feel ready, sit in. Respect and play the idiom, but be yourself. And if you're not ready, pay attention. You're in school.

If things go well, folks will ask for your info. Make sure you have a card -- Vistaprint.com is cheap -- with name, cell, e-mail, and instrument on it. A local number makes it look like you're a local, and increases the odds of your getting a call. It probably won't pay squat, but you gotta get a foot in the door somehow. You're planning for a few years ahead.

And if things don't go well, that's OK too. Go home and get better. Figure out what you need to do, and do it.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 06, 2005 05:32 AM: Message edited by: Riddim ]</font>

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 06, 2005 05:36 AM: Message edited by: Riddim ]</font>

Rhythm & Riddem - good posts, broski's. [img]cool.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

Another little story-example: I just recently re-united w a singer/entertainer whom i'd long played with [for a living] but had left [was at odds w], & now reconciled our differences. The first gig back was one i'd done "a hundred times," but this time was different, almost "new," There were many mentally & physically challenged [AKA formerly "handicapped"] kids AWA adults including paraplegics, blind, deaf, downs syndrome, palsy, dystrophy, sclerosis, etc, AWA their caregivers who showed up intermittently during the week long gig.
After every show [thrice a late-afternoon/evening], i jumped off the stage & went straight for them, man, to "get me some a' that" ["spirit;" "angels in disguise"].

When one gets all phreeked about a little flubbed note [or how "great" a muso they are], it can become a greater [lesser, really] problem than the now-gone incident itself.

I think of these people, & consider myself "lucky/blessed" or it a privelege to have the physical, mental, AWA spiritual abitlity to send some brief musical joy their way...because if one stops & looks more closely/deeply for it, you'll find that they freely give more back to you as well. [OK, yeah; Warm fuzzy for the day.]

Peace.
[No, you don't have to go out now & "hug a tree;" but for some it might help...] ;-)

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 06, 2005 03:56 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>

Thanx sooo much for the out-pouof support. Sorry I let the thread go a little long but I wanted to say thank you. I'll keep you up on my endeavours. I'm trying to work a few angles and get some more opportunities going. Thanx again!!

Joe

For what it is worth, here is a little something from a newb at HOD.

I am a full-time player/teacher who used to work in law enforcement. I had dreamed of a career in music but was too scared to make the leap of faith. I blew my knee out on the job and was forced to take a year off. During this time my wife and I decided it might be a good chance to leave that profession and pursue my dream. We set LITTLE goals with timelines and now I have never been happier. I've been playing full-time since '98 and now have a two year old at home. When the baby came, I could no longer do the extensive hired gun tours I was doing (all national, no international) in good conscience. I knew I needed to find another way to help put food on the table and keep me closer to home.

Long story short, I have found success by not putting all my eggs in one basket. I bring income in through teaching, session work (all local), gigging and running a teaching studio with other instruments and teachers. I never thought I'd become a "businessman", but here I am. I get to be my own boss and am working towards the goal of having the studio run itself so I can check out some other ventures. Others have posted that in order to make ends meet, oftentimes one must play music they're not too particularly fond of. I concur wholeheartedly and find myself in this situation far too often. I do, however, have a different take on it. Coming from a long line of day gigs I HATED, the worst day of teaching, gigging, recording, or running my music studio is far better than any of those day gigs I had. The challenge of being able to support my family doing something I love and am relatively gifted at is a real charge.

I think if you have a supportive spouse and are careful and calculating in your preparations it can be done. I'm living proof! BTW, I am 40 years old and started my professional career in 1992... that is a pretty late start in my estimation!

Sorry for the epic-length post. I just feel strongly about pursuing your dreams and finding ways to make them come true. Best of luck!