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First I want to apologize. We should spend more time on Cisneros' text. In my opinion it deserves it.
1. What was your favorite vignette and why?
2. Alluding back to what Mr. Kennedy said during class the other day, do you think this book is appropriate for an AP class? Why or why not? Would you consider The House on Mango Street as having "literary merit"?
Mr. Branch
my favorite vignette was Red Clowns because it didn't give a lot of details but there was enough information to send a very poweful message. esperanza was raped and she didn't want to remember what happened. No where in the text it is written that she is raped but one can imagine that it happened when she says that she doesn't want to remember and when the guy grabbed her and said "I love you spanish girl." it also said that everything started to whirl around. she also expressed contempt against sally for not being there to help her when she was so vulnerable.
this text is very simple, short, and easy to read. AP reading doesn't mean long and complicated books. this text showed us many different sides to writing. For example, i didn't know what a vignette was before i read the house on mango street. It showed how the author can make the reader can imagine how the narrator is like and even their age from the sentence structure, word choice and even punctuation.
1. My favorite vignette was "Our Good Day" because it is hilarious to see the little kids negotiating for their bike privileges and then in the end having fun with their new bike. I especially liked how the joked around in the end and Rachel's response to the fat lady.
2. I disagree with Mr. Kennedy. The House on Mango Street appears to be a simple book because it is easy to read since Esperanza is narrating and her vocabulary is limited. Still, the book is full of great metaphors, imagery, allusion which is well thought out and has it's literary merit.
My favorite vignette was ?And Some More? because in it Cisneros gets to vividly depict the little girls? na?vet?. It shows how children talking about a random topic such as ?different names for clouds? can lead to unintentional teases and gradually end up in a quarrel. Like Esperanza, it is typical of kids to say ?You better not be talking like that?else you can say goodbye to being my friend forever.? It is also ridiculous and peculiar the way they use ?chicken lips?, ?cold frijoles?, and ?Your mama?s frijoles? as mocking phrases. However, the most representative character is Nenny, the smallest of the girls, who doesn?t pay attention to the fight and instead amuses herself with the different clouds and their names.
I disagree that ?The House on Mango Street? is inappropriate for an AP class. It?s true that the child-like dictions and language makes it easy to understand and read, yet at the same time the merit of the book lies within the kind of power and imagery which are achieved through them. From my perception, AP Lit requires us to have the elasticity to achieve the same kind of power through both rich and simple vocabularies.
<center>Who's stupid?
Rachel, Lucy, Esperanza, and Nenny.</center>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 11, 2007 11:54 PM: Message edited by: brucelin ]</font>
I believe that "No Speak English" was a very interesting and meaningful vignette, particularly for the way in which it ties itself to Esperanza's most nagging wish -- that of owning a house. Mamacita is, as I see it, simbolic of the struggle that most of these immigrants endure; that of leaving behind a known culture, an identity that is synonymous with their being, in order to try and flesh out a better life for themselves in an alien country. Much like Esperanza hopes to build a home for herself, Mamacita hopes to return to the home she's already built. Each character chases a different dream, however: Esperanza wishes to find a sanctuary of sorts for herself, whereas Mamacita fights to preserve her culture and her identity in face of a completely new environment.
I think that the message that "No Speak English" conveys is a very strong one, a message of cultural identity relative to oneself.
Regarding its inclusion in AP English Literature, I must confess that I have ambivalent feelings towards the collection of vignettes. Several of our classmates have been quick to highlight the abundance of figurative language, metaphors, and similes in the text, something that puts it well on its way towards the status of a novel with "literary merit". However, I don't think that the simplicity of Cisneros' narrative adds to or detracts from the text; I think that, given the fact that the novel is a first-person narrative, readers wouldn't expect a different style from any author that covets such a title. The use of such a particular style only asserts that Cisnero is a good author, but doesn't necessarily canonize her work as something extraordinary.
Having said that, I frankly believe that the novel is somewhat too simplistic and that, regardless of the skillful use of figurative language and imagery, the lack of rich vocabulary makes it difficult for me to consider it an advanced novel coherent with AP standards. This consideration notwithstanding, Cisneros does craft a picturesque novel, particularly when we factor the length of the text into the equation.
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ September 09, 2007 07:38 PM: Message edited by: alberto_dacosta ]</font></font>
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 09, 2007 07:39 PM: Message edited by: alberto_dacosta ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My favorite vignette was "Geraldo No Name." It just shows how the "spicks" or "wetbacks" are seened in the United States. They represent nothing, since no one knows the Mexican's really name or what he does for living. It shows how entrenched hatred against the inmigrants really is in the American mental scheme.Quote:
First I want to apologize. We should spend more time on Cisneros' text. In my opinion it deserves it.
1. What was your favorite vignette and why?
2. Alluding back to what Mr. Kennedy said during class the other day, do you think this book is appropriate for an AP class? Why or why not? Would you consider The House on Mango Street as having "literary merit"?
I think that although this book has some underlying themes and critique to society, the way it is narrated is not something that I would choose for an AP Exam. Every book has underlying themes, that if thought upon long enough, are related to many topics. For me, this book is too simplistic in its writing but with great knowledge underneath the words.
I must agree with Doctor Kennedy that this book is one that must not be used as a parameter for the AP Exam. Otherwise, we could use any novel ever written for the AP Exam. And that, is not the case.
My favorite vignette was ?The House on the Mango Street? because it initially sets a structure that the novel would follow. Also, this vignette, in its few pages, accomplishes to describe several characteristics of the Hispanic culture. Cisneros describes the Mango Street effectively and establishes the precarious emotional condition by which the family lived. The rich descriptions of the house also intrigued me because they were very detailed, but simple at the same time, creating a clear image through simple diction and syntax.
In my opinion, this text should be AP material because it encompasses many structural elements as it contains an intrinsic description of society. In my life as a reader, I?ve only encountered a limited amount of books that used vignettes. Also, this is one of the only books I?ve read that discuss the social status and culture of Latin America with such a loyalty to truth; almost a sincere reflection of the way of life of Latin America.
My favorite vignette is ?Red Clowns? because it reflects one of the many phases Esperanza went through to finally achieve her ?awakening? or ?coming of age?. Throughout the book we read whatever it is that Esperanza has to tell us. However, what I most enjoyed about reading THOMS is that Esperanza?s details are so subtle, it seems like is not enough to attract the reader. However, by the end of the book, you get the feeling you know her, what she has been through, and feel sympathetic towards the rough life she had. This particular vignette gives the reader enough knowledge to allow one to understand what Esperanza went through but she never specifies what the non-Latin boys did to her. She lets the reader know that the boys mockingly said to her ?I love you, I love you, Spanish girl.? (100) and thereby the reader knows how humiliated and used she felt without the need of she actually describing her emotions at that same moment.
I definitely think this book is appropriate for an AP class because although the vocabulary is very simple it has other aspects that Cisneros puts emphasis on. For instance, DIDLS, how to recognize different metaphors, imagery, allusions, and more and most importantly how to analyze every single one of them. I think it was a great book to learn how to identify the tone. Also the fact that we read The Awakening and this book also refers to the awakening of Esperanza but in a different way. Yes, in conclusion, I think it?s a great book for any English class. I don?t think there?s any doubt that the book has ?literary merit?. Cisneros is a genius. Ok maybe that?s a little too over the top to say but she knows what she is doing and I think the way she writes is brilliant.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 12, 2007 11:29 PM: Message edited by: idaeaton ]</font>
1. I dont have a favorite vignette, I like several in reality. One I like is Hairs because it has a warm and loving tone. It is one of the few vignettes that one can read and actually feel happy after reading it.
2. I believe Cisnero's novel is an important novel with noticeable literary importance, but it should not be an ap english book. It is more like a 9th or 10th grade book to read. The books teachings is at the same level as the lord of the flies.
My favorite vignette is Four Skinny Trees. I loved the sense of hope that this vignette sends out to the readers. Just like Esperanza, these four trees outside her house don't belong there at times; they're tall, thin, and have pointy elbows, just like her. The trees' strength to keep on fighting, to keep on planting their roots harder and harder despite their adversities, is what gives the narrator the desire to do the same thing.
Regarding Chris's comment, I don't believe this book has a high enough writing style or theme compared to other books that are taught in AP Lit. However, it is pleasant to read, and it gives us a break in the complex and difficult readings we will encounter. Therefore, it's nice to have it in the reading list.
My favorite vignette was "the Family of Little Feet" because it reminds you of the classic "best day of my life." It brought me back memories to those days that just seem to never end and that you never even want to end. It is a text that gave me goosebumps remembering certain events in my life that I had previously forgotten.
I previously read this book in the 7th grade and I thought it was very dumb even for that age, but as I read it a second time, I saw new meanings and deeper messages that can't really get into the mind of a 12 year old. This book takes on social issues and culture as well as putting you in the shoes of someone that you never imagined you could possibly relate to. This book was interesting because as Esperanza grew, you grew along with her. This book definitely deserves AP credit although that I might only be saying this because I know that it is on the AP exam. I cannot fight my superego any longer so this is the conclusion to my reply.
my favorite vignette was "Our Good Days". I loved how sicneros described the kids as all riding on the bike at the same time. I liked how they set rules for the bike and they each got it every certain day.
i think this book is appropriate because it is filled with so many types of metaphors and great allusions.
1. My favorite vignette was "Red Clowns". This is because there is a very twisted and sick meaning behind it, which is rape, and I'm not so sure that the untrained mind can see it. The deepness of this vignette is unparalleled by any other in the story.
2. Regarding what Mr. Kennedy said, I believe that he is a true master of his domain. His domain being AP Lit, of course, don't interpret it in any other way. He is a brilliant man, and as such, his comments can not be underestimated. At the time, Mr. Kennedy had not yet finished reading the novel I believe, and so he wishes to rephrase his comment. The House on Mango Street is well written and has underlying meanings which can not be easily perceived. However, it is a tad too simple in its writing. Therefore, Mr. Kennedy's comment has morphed into the following:
"The House on Mango Street, while being written in a child-like and simplistic manner, can be attributed to having an abundance of esoteric themes which can only be perceived through thorough analysis, such as racial, social and economic problems in the American 60's. Therefore, it is worthy of an AP Lit class as long as only a moderate amount of time is spent on it"
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ September 14, 2007 12:43 AM: Message edited by: Chris Kennedy ]</font>
My favorite vignette is Four Skinny Trees because I like the idea of something that is seemingly weak having this unseen and secret strength. I like the line ?four [trees] who despise concrete.? That line reminds me of the flowers or trees that crack the sidewalk?s pavement.
I do think this is a good book. And it does have literary merit. There are, however, so many other books more rich in metaphors, in content, in ideas and I think that those books would be more suitable for this class. But I still enjoyed re-reading the House of Mango Street.
i really liked the vignette called sire, in which esperanza describes how sh wants to feel, how she wants to be with guys, and begin dating, because it really brought up emotions in me. I think that it was the only vignette that actually made me feel things instead of having to imagine the situation.
I dont think that there is a need to make the book seem less than it was, but it lacked some things, and had too much of other things. There was no sense of plot, so we got too much of the main character, and almost no other characters. This was very effective to bring up about what life was like for new latino immigrants in the united states, but i think that this is too specific to cannonize, since it only applies to a limited amount of people