Mental Pain

Ok so we all have fell and skined a knee, smacked a toe on the solid object or paper cut the finger and felt the pain shoot straight to the head.... Ah but the loss of a loved one, the emptiness when someone you knows dies, anything you can't point to and say it hurts yet somehow it feels as sharp a splinter in your brain.

the question? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Can you feel mental pain?

Not the abseses of self manifestations caused by ones own self to help indulge an wallow in your pitty. Something to give you reason to beleive it all hurts somewhere else besides in your head. No migranes, belly aches or tight throats when you cry so hard it hurts to breath. I just want to know when it is all said and done and you feel the emptiness, the echo ringing out loud in your head... does it hurt? Can it be pain?

If so and you can feel pain, yet nothing is amiss or broken then where is the cure?

If not and they can only echo dry tears for nothing as their eyes fix and glaze and try to peer inwards.... what is "it" then that hurts us so?

CYA [img]eek.gif[/img]

PS... TG please no HONDA commercials on this one for analisys. I was laffing so hard at the last one I almost forgot the topic.

<font color="#ac0000" size="1">[ April 22, 2003 03:56 AM: Message edited by: Cyalaytr ]</font>

ok....

here's my response....
*and i groan because i know what it will do*

the pain IS self-caused. its a selfish pain.
an intentional, internal sabotage...
a quick and easy manifestation of sorrow and
self-pity...

you are the cause... and the solution.

4 minutes!!!! 4 DANG minutes and you have a solution to the question I have been searching the answer for.. for over 10 years.


If I am alone the problem and yet also the solution... no wonder why so many internal pains end in suicide. But if that were the case then you do not solve your problem or become a solution but instead only pass it to another in the hopes they can fix what you could not. Or the scream never heard in a dark dark room.

CYA [img]eek.gif[/img]

perhaps those that have committed suicide found the solution.


poor schopenhauer...

anyways...
i have always seen the instant gratification of
*essentially* passing the 'responsibility' buck
off to someone else...

a person dies.
people die.
living things die.

people know this... and yet, get all fucked up
when it happens (to someone they know)...
so they get upset about it.

now the real Q is...
what exactly are they upset about?
it most certainly isn't the romantic answer of:
"i'll miss them"...
nah... thats too easy.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">Originally posted by shatzy:
perhaps those that have committed suicide found the solution.


now the real Q is...
what exactly are they upset about?
it most certainly isn't the romantic answer of:
"i'll miss them"...
nah... thats too easy.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>


Outside or even including death but not limited too.... then correct me if I read that wrong but you say the answer is "I'll miss them" etc or related around that. Missing being the absence of what was once there or is "empty" so can we feel pain not counting the "manifestations caused by ones self" somewhere in there body?

Neurons traveling to our brain to say OUCH that hurts. But what if the brain or the sense of being or being "without" causes hurt. Is "THAT" part feelable as a pain?

CYA

the brain doesn't feel pain.
but other parts of the body respond to cues.

even if your answer/justification is "i'll miss them"
its still selfish.
it is not really relational to the deceased
(or whatever... the 'absence') unless indirectly.

this 'pain' for 'loss' that you are referring to
can easily be associated with other forms of
self-induced 'pain' such as those relational
to fears and other traumas.

you build up the emotions... your body follows suit.

Everything that you have ever experienced is simply electrons bouncing around in your brain.

there is finality in death. it's something absolute.

so when you hear of a distant acquaintence or someone you knew but haven't kept in contact with (etc) and hear of their death, it's not out of missing them since you weren't close to them but the possibility of it is gone forever and another door is shut.

it also reminds us of our own mortality - that one day we'll die also.

so yes, it's all selfish. but everything we do is self serving. practically.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">Originally posted by shatzy:
now the real Q is...
what exactly are they upset about?
it most certainly isn't the romantic answer of:
"i'll miss them"...
nah... thats too easy.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's because people cling to others and use them as an extension of their own existence; they don't like to be alone. I don't mean so much a fear of loneliness, as a fear of aloneness.

People are afraid to be alone with themselves, and need someone else to reassure them.

err.. I mean, I take it that you guys are talking about long term mourning...? Coz I mean, like.. if someone I knew died tomorrow, I'd be upset, but you've gotta face the facts that those things happen and pissing and moaning about it ain't gonna fix up anything. Which is what people don't look at, and they become so self-absorbed in the loss that they withdraw from their other associates, and are reduced to a state where they are left with just themselves, which many can't cope with, from whence comes the suicide, which is most definately NOT the solution. A solution, perhaps, but the weak one.

Say I'm at work, and we're real busy, and we run outta mushrooms. Rather than go get more from out back and cut them up, I run away on a delivery and leave the others to sort it out.

It's a crappy (okay, REALLY crappy) analogy, but it's one just the same. Somebody loses someone, they can't cope, they jump off a bridge.

.......i'm tired, okay????

Ok in trying to steer it away from the death topic as that alone was just an example of something you couldn't touch such as say a woman or man you loved leaving you but not by dying, or say when a brother or sister heads off to college, a pet comes up missing, or a tragic accident in which you have no direct ties to but it instead of making you sad angers you so much you feel sick to your stomach.

Outside of the body creating "fake pain" a stomach ache, tight throat, migrain etc... is there ANYTHING associated with the pain you feel that the body did not create itself that you could directly call pain. You cut your finger you feel pain. Or is it air to say that since your brain dealing with emotions yet yet not able to feel pain has to creat its own to have a sense of something it can feel and sense "such as a headache" so it can start a time line so to speak of when to feel better or stop feeling what it wants to feel as pain.

Hope that helps a little better.

I have never experienced what you're talking about.

Do you mean, kind of, a physical pain from an emotional pain?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">Originally posted by KingBean:
I have never experienced what you're talking about.

Do you mean, kind of, a physical pain from an emotional pain?</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

EXACTLY... or can you feel Mental Pain.

CYA

I think it's possible to allow yourself, but it isn't a natural thing. Uhh.. by that, I mean, it's in the mind.

Mmm.. since everyone loves tangents so much, I'll veer off a little and give an example, and that is that, bar the odd cold / hayfever, I have not been sick in years. I can't remember the last time I was ill, had a headache, whatever (excluding alcohol incidents). Whereas my Mum is always concerned about her health, what she eats and all that crap, and she's always getting sick, and she always says to us, "I try and look after myself, why do I always get sick?" and I think it's because the illness is a result of.. hmm I'm lost for words... because she gives so much thought to it.. err....... it's just a psychological thing..

SOOOOO... with this physical from emotional thing... if you're prepared to allow yourself physical pain, you'll get it.

[img]confused.gif[/img] @ post

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">Originally posted by Cyalaytr:
Outside of the body creating "fake pain" a stomach ache, tight throat, migrain etc... is there ANYTHING associated with the pain you feel that the body did not create itself that you could directly call pain. </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

no. there is nothing 'artificial' that induces
your body/mind to 'feel' anything.
its all intentional.

Moniker, no belief in a soul?

so why do you feel pain if you're hit from behind (or unexpectedly)? if everything is intentional?


and

i think the idea of the soul is something everyone including certain religions have romanticised. the reality of a 'soul' is (in my opinion) questionable, as with all existential questions.

no no.... thats the reason why i quoted cya...
the body produces its own indicators for pain,
ie... nerve endings etc...

but there is not 'outside, artificial' force
that can will pain onto a person... thats what
i meant

also... one more thing...

as something comes into contact with those
'indicators'... the electrical message is still
sent and/or received by the brain to translate
into information/reaction.

therefore, its easy to understand how the pain
you may feel is 'created' or 'intentional'