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thought it was informative. i'm sure i could use it somewhere. now if i can only play it. [img]confused.gif[/img]
it looks like alot of fun.
[img]biggrin.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 14, 2005 02:02 PM: Message edited by: Da Chooch ]</font>
If you could have actually heard
it on a kit, you would know exactly
what to do with what he was saying.
Another thing is that he did not do
it slower and with the heavy back
beat, so you can see where, exactly,
it is inserted.
He was showing us how to use it in
the 'half-time shuffle', there and
he is right about it being VERY use-
ful and I will go even further, say-
ing that it is essential to be able
to drop doubles anywhere in that
very, very cool pattern.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
This video proves that Zoro has a "lazy" approach to his doubles on his hands AND feet... you can really tell on the foot though cause the doubles are weak. I understand the importnace of rebound, but I didn't see the point of that excersize personally [img]eek.gif[/img]
It could be that practice kit, but his foot doubles sounds really bad. There's no power behind them and the first stroke is accented. It sounds sloppy, so it would be good to hear that played on his kit.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly! I agree.Quote:
Originally posted by Suspiria:
It could be that practice kit, but his foot doubles sounds really bad. There's no power behind them and the first stroke is accented. It sounds sloppy, so it would be good to hear that played on his kit.
Curious about his instructional video now.
You have to look past that, in my
opinion. It's the concept that he's
trying to communicate.
Sure those doubles could be done
better and that is up to you. Take
what is there.
There are a ton of players that can't
play as well as they talk but that
does not mean that what they say is
not valuable.
This guy is talking sense. Applied,
that 'sense' becomes 'cents' and
then dollars.
I'll tell you what - Forget him. You
try it and make those doubles shake
the floor and push them 2nd strokes.
He's not going to stop you.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 15, 2005 05:54 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
Now I haven't seen this in context, but what does everyone else think???
Bass Drum Video Link
MP
I dunno, but those Jack DeJohnette vids are awesome.
Except for that crazy squealing from Keith Jarrett...
Lovely playing, but that gets really annoying.
He's got some good advice, there.
The problem is that you can't really
hear it in context, on the pads. It
might/would have been better on an
e-kit or a real kit.
I like the simple approach. He's cool.
Too many players make it too complex.
He reminds me of Gadd in how he ex-
plains things.
Next time you look at it, try and
picture the drums and sounds. You
might get more out of it.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 14, 2005 05:48 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly! I agree.Quote:
Originally posted by CLWarunki:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Suspiria:
It could be that practice kit, but his foot doubles sounds really bad. There's no power behind them and the first stroke is accented. It sounds sloppy, so it would be good to hear that played on his kit.
Curious about his instructional video now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I ordered his DVD last week, i'll tell here if he tell much about that on it
Well, for one thing, he's playing the first and last triplet and shuffle pattern, yet he called it "dotted-eighth, sixteenth", which is wrong.
I would be embarassed to play like that- and even more so to have that perfomance broadcast to the world. [img]confused.gif[/img]
I could say more but I won't. I'm just gonna think it REAL HARD... [img]wink.gif[/img]
That's what I get for trying
to stand up for the guy.
LOL
[img]cool.gif[/img]
Sorry Pete...
I just think that if you're gonna tout yourself as being a top performer and educator, and having played on one of the self-proclaimed "top ten R&B albums of all time", he at least has a responsibility to educate correctly, and it wouldn't hurt to play a little better, too. [img]eek.gif[/img]
And I don't agree with his BD diddle concept, either... [img]tongue.gif[/img]
CJ,
I have been so busy, with pro-
fessional work. I have also been
spending more time, with my family
and that has really filled up my
schedule. I am not sorry. I have
two children for a heartbeat and
I want them to never forget that
I was here for them.
I have actually had some gear is-
sues, of late, too, which I seem
to have fixed, along with working
on a recording project (pop), which
I can't share but I am re-working
a challenging pattern from one
of Cobham's big-band arrangements
and maybe I'll post that, when it's
done. It actually does isolate the
single kick and is a great routine,
on its own.
I might have a couple of recent
Latin things. I have to look.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 15, 2005 01:51 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
Hey Pete,
Cool. Looking forward to it. Coincidentally, I've been spending a little more time on the electronic kit(Yamaha DTExpress) at home, and working on my left hand lead, too...man, it's so nice when you get it comfortable...almost too nice...
CJ,
I had no idea you were working on that!
Man! It's a revolution! Just wait!
[img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]
The pads in this video clip definitely don't show Z at his best. Get him on the right gear and those doubles are absolutely amazing; clean, precise and musical. I saw him with a decent kit and that funky square kick beater of his. I could'nt believe how great his doubles sounded!
Hello All-
I agree with Pete and Andy on this. It is just unfortunate that this got recorded in this fashion. There is a nice lick right in the middle of that video that I plan on incorporating.
I saw Zoro at a GC clinic last year some time. The guy really gives. He played some nice stuff, and I did not once think that he was weak. In fact, I expected that he would be weak, and he really surprised me.
I am learning that you can take something from just about anyone and make something cool from it drum wise. Sometimes though, we have to get past certain criteria that keep us from enjoying concepts for what they are.
Just my 2 euros.
Take Care All. F.S.
Frank,
You are so cool!
[img]cool.gif[/img]
CJ,
Not everyone will agree with this
but Tony used to have me practice
doubles, accenting the second note
and from tom to snare and not the
way Lang does them. I mean from
snare to the tom!!
You can apply this to the foot too
and I know someone has brought it
up in the past - Samba's are great
for this. Might as well make it a
workout and do the RR or LL of the
double-stroke pattern on the foot,
alternating with the opposite hand
on the snare or do this pattern on
the snare and cymbal, accenting the
cymbals, with the kick. You can do
a lot with the idea. Go with it.
[img]cool.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 15, 2005 05:56 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
I would have asked for a second take!!!
Though the sound of pedal itself sounded louder that bass drum.....maybe it was just me...only listened to it once....
seemed like he was struggling.....
No worries, CJ. I don't know
the guy but I do believe in
using double-patterns on the
kick in every way possible.
It makes one a better drummer.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 15, 2005 12:18 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
drat!
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 15, 2005 12:50 PM: Message edited by: cjbdrm ]</font>
I hear ya...it really spices up the groove...
Maybe you could post a vid of some of your concepts?
Haven't seen anything from you for a while [img]wink.gif[/img]
sorry guys, I just don't get it. So he's playing doubles on the BD and inserting them in different places - so??
1) it sounds sloppy
2) there's no power or feeling or phrasing behind the doubles, like accenting the last one for example.
3) this is remedial stuff
4) he doesn't mention using this in a musical context, in the context of a tune
After having watching Mr Zoro's other vids, I just don't get why he's accaimed so highly, he really does nothing for me. His playing sounds lame to me.... I am obviously opening myself up for a berating by the Zoro fans here, but I'm willing to be educated!
[img]wink.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Isn't this kind of a recurring theme here? We discus the playing of someone in the limelight and then say, I don't get it, what's so impressive? But, when you step back and look at the careers of a lot of these guys you've got to admit that they must be doing something right in order to be propelled from high profile gig to high profile gig.Quote:
Originally posted by Dazzler:
His playing sounds lame to me.... I am obviously opening myself up for a berating by the Zoro fans here, but I'm willing to be educated!
The first time I saw Z was at PASIC '85 (has it really been 20 years?). He wasn't featured there, just another drummer amongst the masses (only he was the only one wearing a Zoro hat). This is the PASIC that featured Stewart Copland, Tony Williams and Vinnie Colaiuta. Anyway, there we are in the exhibit hall and all of these guys are just going nuts showing all their technique on scores of kits (talk about loud!). I'm checking out a kit and next to me is this guy wearing that black Zoro hat, just laying down a nice groove. He looks over at me and says "they don't get it" and keeps playing this simple groove. Well looking back over the years since then, I've got to think that Z did get it and continues to produce the stuff that a lot of great musicians want to hear.
Stewart Copeland, Tony Williams, and Vinnie Colaiuta "don't get it"?
ROFLMAO [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I hate to be negative.
I hate to be critical.
But I hate even more thinking that the reason I have to work a day job might be because I didn't have a cool hat and have an unexplicably high opinion of and belief in my own mediocre playing.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have to say i agree. Regardless of what career he's had, the only judgement i can make of Mr Zoro is one based on this vid. I haven't played in a studio with him, have I? This may look very unfair, but i think that this video really isn't anything special. And the stuff he's doing with those loops off his iPod (see his page on DW) isn't great either. I'm still convinced the Keith Carlock vid is the best to come from MDF05Quote:
Originally posted by Dazzler:
sorry guys, I just don't get it. So he's playing doubles on the BD and inserting them in different places - so??
1) it sounds sloppy
2) there's no power or feeling or phrasing behind the doubles, like accenting the last one for example.
3) this is remedial stuff
4) he doesn't mention using this in a musical context, in the context of a tune
After having watching Mr Zoro's other vids, I just don't get why he's accaimed so highly, he really does nothing for me. His playing sounds lame to me.... I am obviously opening myself up for a berating by the Zoro fans here, but I'm willing to be educated!
[img]wink.gif[/img]
cdbdrm, Z was refering to the PASIC attendees in the exhibit hall and not to Tony, Stewart and Vinnie.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If Zoro has a "lazy approach to his doubles on hands and feet" then either (i) he won't be able to get great gigs, or (ii) you can get great gigs despite a lazy approach to doubles on hands and feet. Obviously (i) is false, so...Quote:
Originally posted by CLWarunki:
This video proves that Zoro has a "lazy" approach to his doubles on his hands AND feet... you can really tell on the foot though cause the doubles are weak. I understand the importnace of rebound, but I didn't see the point of that excersize personally [img]eek.gif[/img]
I agree that the bass drum doubles (on the practice kit) looked (and sounded) very poor. But you shouldn't be seeking to learn how to execute doubles by watching Zoro -- he has other things to teach. (I suspect that your doubles are fine already, CLW -- Gary Grace is more than competent to teach you about those.)
I don't understand why in order to have "cred" on this board a drummer has to either (i) have enormous historical significance or (ii) be close to the Vinnie/Donati level in the virtuosity department.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 17, 2005 10:51 PM: Message edited by: Jonathan599 ]</font>
[quote]Originally posted by LDGuy:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree 100%, LDGuy. It's a shame that Hudson only decided to show one of the (three?) tunes played by Krantz/Lefebvre/Carlock at the actual event on the DVDs.Quote:
I'm still convinced the Keith Carlock vid is the best to come from MDF05
This make me think of old and new way to play double stroke on hand (and foot so), old fashion was like Zoro describe: one stroke and the second is only made by rebound, and the new way explained by Morello and popularized by Weckl on his video "Back to Basic" with a help on the second stroke to have a more consistant sound for each stroke