OT-Taking offense

Okay, I'm not trying to tick people off here, but it needs to be said. I just deleted a post because someone took offense to it. First of all, people take a LOT of offense to things on this board that are NEVER meant offensively, and it's getting to the point where I really can't take it anymore. Secondly, deal with these things in private messages. Before you take offense to something, and insult the person who posted it, make sure they were actually being offensive. Words are just words, and no one can offend you unless you want to be offended, so please, can we just be pleasant to one another?

Well, I find it very offensive that you think I would take offense to your post. [img]wink.gif[/img]

I do kind of agree with you. I try my hardest to overlook post that I find offensive or irritating. So I think this would be a good policy.

I know exactly what you are talking about... but I also know that since this is a message board its hard to convay our messages to one another effectivly.

I had a problem here recently where I finally realized that nothing I said on the board was going to make the other person feel any better, and instead we were just going to badger each other's feelings... so I took it to IM, and we found out that we have almost identical beliefs, but it just wasn't being communicated effitiantly.

I have been a moderator on many many boards, and there is no drama like message board drama...

I encourage everyone to try to take it to a chat based place (one on one) IM or PM when the matter is between two parties. This helps clear up misunderstandings/miscommunication and also keeps other people out of it.

Its kinda like the english lesson.
I ate, Sissy. (with the comma and capital S in Sissy makes Sissy a person)
I ate Sissy. (minus the comma and apparently I'm now a cannible)
I ate, sissy. (now I'm calling someone a name not saying someone's name)

Written words are soo easy to mistake.

Right on! I secound that! [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

The only problem with taking it to PM or IM is that some of us are not allowed any type of interactive chat except message boards... so...

I know you deleted your post because I am the one who took offense to it.

I have to say that I REALLY don't think ethnic comments are anything to take lightly. So I don't feel bad that you think I'm being "picky". I don't think any ethnic derogatory term should be used on this board, including the one you used, and many people make jokes about that word and I just find it really, really rude and insensitive.

I don't think I am being picky when it comes to words like that.

Your post was meant to be funny, but did you think about what group of poeple you are poking fun at?

If you made joke type of post about native americans, asian people, etc, do you think people would take it as a joke or would they be offended by it?
It may have been meant to be funny but it doesn't make it right.
I am really not into "politcal correctness" however I don't think it is right to make fun of any region or group of people in this country (or anywhere else either, of course).

<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ December 06, 2005 05:03 PM: Message edited by: StarTrekCaptain ]</font>

I don't get the problem. If someone is offended by something, and it hurts their feelings, I think most of us would like to know so we could not say the same thing again.

Words might be just words, but we all see how offended people get when their stars get lowered, things like that may be silly to some of us, but it really hurts other peoples' feelings.

If I offend someone by saying something, I'd like to know, obviously I never realized it was hurtful, and now I know not to say it again.

Sometimes we forget that everyone's feelings are different, and what you might find unoffensive could offend someone else.

OOO I think I know whats going on... does this have to do with the jedi joke?

If so, I live in TN and people are PROUD to be called that. I have never met someone considered a (what Jeff Foxworthy jokes about) that doesn't pass these jokes around like candy.

If we are going to be exessivly offensive (and again I'm making an assumption) then what's with the blond jokes? Why aren't these equally as offensive? Personally, I do not find them so... and I'm blond... If we want to play like that ANYTHING and EVERYTHING becomes offensive to someone somewhere at sometime.

That's the same thing as african americans joking around with a certain word. People feel like they can use it on themselves and it's okay. Well it's not. Why do you think other poeple find it okay? Because you use it on yourseves. ( notice I am not syaing "we use it on ourselves", because I do not use it) If people quit making fun of themselves then other people will realize it's not okay to make fun of them either.

Its just as bad as words like the n-word and jokes made about other ethnic groups.
I don't think it's right, I find it very offensive because whether you like it or not is IS a derogatory slur. And you may notice it is the only one "accepted" by the media and the general public. People should be proud of their heritage and not make fun of it. I am proud of my appalachian hertiage and past and I appreciate it and I do NOT appreciate other people making fun of it. And it is beyond crazy that the people seem to think it's okay to use words like that, and yet any other portion of the population cannot be called a word like that because it is discriminatory. [img]graemlins/thumbs_down.gif[/img]

<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ December 06, 2005 06:26 PM: Message edited by: StarTrekCaptain ]</font>

I specifically didn't bring up the content of that post, but since someone else already did, the thing you took offense to is NOT an ethnicity, whatever you may think. I will NEVER post another joke on this board. And if I were not committed to some projects and people on the board, I would probably just give up trying to censor myself and leave the board. I would never purposely insult anyone here, and that is absolutely the last I will say on the subject.

Note from Joy: I don't think it's necessary for you to promise to never tell another joke or consider leaving the board. That seems like an extreme measure. However, it could be a workable choice for you to decide to just apologize and not do something again, when it happens to inadvertently hurt someone else's toes--just as we would all do if we were to happen to accidently step on their physical toes.

<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ December 06, 2005 07:50 PM: Message edited by: djsnjones ]</font>

Oh, I think that your talking baout the You might be a Redneck if.. post? I didn't read that... My aren't we all going through some discomfort.
I agree with Miss Nellie O'Mally. In KY you can buy You might be a Redneck joke shirts at Walmart, and alot of people around here listen to Jeff Foxworthy like he's a god. Besides, what about the Country song "Redneck Yacht Club" should that be banned from the radio? Admittedly I am not a Country Bumpkin (or is that term offensive?)or grew up in the South...
I think that it would behoove us all to relax a little. If this board turns us all paranoid of speaking without risk of offensive and hurt, then what is the point?

Note from Joy: We don't need to exist in a paranoid frame of mind, and we don't need to embrace "freedom of speech" with a devil-may-care attitude either. Those are not our only two choices. Another, probably more workable choice, is to write with an effort towards being prudent, and then if someone is hurt inadvertently to apologize and move on--without condemning the person who says "ouch". We don't condemn someone who says "ouch" when we accidently step on their physical toes. Nor do we then walk in a paranoid frame of mind, just because we accidently stepped on someone's toes once. We say "Oh. Excuse me. I'm sorry, I didn't see you there" and we move on.

What is the point? The point is not to be able to unload our minds and mouths in any way we want to whenever we want to. The point is to share fun and a common hobby in ways that are considerate of everyone around us.
Joy

<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ December 06, 2005 07:57 PM: Message edited by: djsnjones ]</font>

Quote:

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Originally posted by mayergirl:
I will NEVER post another joke on this board. And if I were not committed to some projects and people on the board, I would probably just give up trying to censor myself and leave the board.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I do not blame you Mayergirl at all.

I'm with Pumpkin.

Mayergirl, I didn't get to read it before you deleted it, can you PM it to me? Pretty please? [img]graemlins/rose.gif[/img]

Southern born and bred, Midwestern stuck. [img]frown.gif[/img]

One of my favorite bumper stickers:

Maybe the Hokey-Pokey is what it's all about.

Quote:

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If people quit making fun of themselves then other people will realize it's not okay to make fun of them either.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What?! Im sorry, but thats just no fun! I live for making jokes about my nasaly Michigan accent, my family's catholic and blue collar roots, the weather that changes faster than the mood of a girl with pms and all the backwoods lovin' hunters-including my dad, brother everyone of my uncles and cousins-who pop out every fall to shoot 'da buck'. And Im proud of my background. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being able to poke fun at your heritage. The fact that you have a sense of humor about it shows your are content with it.
To me, people who get uptight about it and get offended when people tease about, lets say, our nasaly voices, probably feel they have something to prove. The stuff that comes from where I live is not really cultural and its certainly not linked to my ethinic background. It is regional. And Im with maygirl on a few things here. That word does not represent an ethnicity. I live way north of the mason-dixon line and I can tell you there are plenty of them running around here. My family included-some of them more than others [img]wink.gif[/img]

The N-word is not even on the same page as the use of Jeff Foxworthy's go-to joke. First its not an ethnicity and second it doesnt carry with it the history and brutality that that other awful, awful word does. Im not quite sure how they can even be compared. People are not shouting the R-word to people and spitting in their face and telling them they have to sit at the back of the bus. Its not the same thing at all. Even though I do agree with you that it is an entirely negative word for those reasons and should not be made into something positive, even if it is only used as such between AAs.

Anyway, I agree with maygirl that if you do take offense to something, then be mature and responsible about it, PM the person! And if you cant, really stop and think about what is said before you jump to conclusions.

And finally, yeah I know I have nothing to do with initial joke, but I had to throw my two cents in...sorry [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ December 06, 2005 07:53 PM: Message edited by: *shortie* ]</font>

Quote:

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Originally posted by Molly-Felicity:
One of my favorite bumper stickers:

Maybe the Hokey-Pokey is what it's all about.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ROFL...I love that quote!! Ive been wanting that bumper sticker for a long time.

I don't think it's necessary for you to promise to never tell another joke or to consider leaving the board. That seems like an extreme measure. However, it could be a workable choice for you to decide to just apologize and not do something again, when it happens to inadvertently hurt someone else's toes--just as we would all do if we were to happen to accidently step on their physical toes.

We don't need to say, "Either take me with all that comes out of my mouth, or I'll never post a joke again, or I may even leave". And we don't need to feel muzzled. Those are not our only choices.

We don't need to exist in a paranoid frame of mind, and we don't need to embrace "freedom of speech" with a devil-may-care attitude either. Those are not our only two choices.

Another, probably more workable choice, is to write with an effort towards being prudent, and sometimes with some impulse control, and then if someone is hurt inadvertently, to apologize and move on--without condemning the person who says "ouch".

We don't condemn someone who says "ouch" when we accidently step on their physical toes. Nor do we then walk around in a paranoid frame of mind, just because we accidently stepped on someone's toes once. We say "Oh. Excuse me. I'm sorry, I didn't see you there" and we move on.

"What is the point?" The point is not to be able to unload our minds and mouths in any way we want to whenever we want to. The point is to share fun and a common hobby in ways that are considerate of everyone around us.
Joy

<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ December 06, 2005 08:12 PM: Message edited by: djsnjones ]</font>

Wow...I missed the joke, but if contains the "R" word, that is definetly the first time I've EVER heard someone take offense over it. *shrug* To each her own, I guess.

The problem is not that I'm interested in saying anything that pops into my head, the problem is that instead of the metaphorical "ouch" you spoke of, I was confronted with a condemnation for stepping on someone's toes, and it's not the first time. It's one thing to say privately, "hey, I know you didn't intend to insult anyone, 'cause you wouldn't do that, but this bothers me, and I'd appreciate it if you would respect me, and I'll try to do the same for you." It's something else entirely to be publicly condemned for such a small offense, and that's why I brought it up. I'm not trying to be melodramatic or anything like that, I'm trying to point out that if I am going to avoid saying certain things, I expect the same courtesy from others.

Amen to that.

I know we might not all be adults on here, but I think most of us should have the common sense and mature state of mind to pm someone if we are upset rather 'letting it all out' for everyone to see on the board. Its like those annoying cell phone users who get into a fight with whoever on the phone in the middle of the hallway when classes are in session so its extra loud. No one wants to hear it. If you're upset, stay calm and take it outside. Or in the message board world, tell the person privately. Its sort of the same thing [img]wink.gif[/img] Or maybe Im just ranting cuz over this drama queen who annoyed me today...

Either way, I agree with you Mayergirl [img]smile.gif[/img]

Ok, Mayergirl, so you can PM her now and apologize for what hurt her, and tell her what hurt you.

And Startrekcaptain, you can apologize for what hurt her, and tell her what hurt you.

None of us is perfect, and we will all hurt someone sometime. Our job is then to really, really hear what hurt and be honestly sorry about that, apologize, and move on.

We don't need to win, we don't need to be better than the other person, we don't need to be right. We just need to find compassionate, empathetic ways to occupy this world together.

Can we do that now, and move on?
Joy

<font color="#051E50" size="1">[ December 06, 2005 08:57 PM: Message edited by: djsnjones ]</font>

Please, people. Sometimes this stuff goes too far.

I don't "know" mayergirl, but I KNOW her well enough to feel confident enough to say she would never intentionally stomp on someone.

What is up, people? Is Christmas getting to be too much for us? Too much turkey and too much holiday cheer? LIGHTEN UP. If you don't like something, ignore it. I seriously doubt that ANYONE here is out to tick ANYONE off.

I'm half Rebel, half Yankee, the product of a Baptist and a Catholic, with German, Scottish, and French ancestry (which probably means that I had cousins on both sides of the Blitz AND the Resistance). To top it off, I married a Brit who's Anglican by birth and agnostic by choice. Oh, and my nephew is of mixed race because one of my sister in laws is a woman of color - to quote Pauline, she's black - and that is what she calls herself, a proud black woman.

I have British in-laws, and I have had to learn, yes, learn, how to laugh at myself, because to the Brits it's an art form.

I can assure you I can't be offended - because I just don't have the energy or the time to let someone do it to me. Mayergirl - I believe it was her - is right - if you allow yourself to be offended, you will be. If you don't like the show, you can change the channel, so to speak.

CRUELTY is one thing - but sometimes we need to take things with a grain of salt.

NOW GO PLAY WITH YOUR DOLLS!!!! ALL OF YOU!!!
[img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Okay. I'm locking this thread down now.

The two people involved can PM each other, and hopefully they will work it out in a good way.

In the future, all members, please don't write in capital letters in a situation where people are talking about hurt feelings. It looks too much like yelling.

And please don't put down or scold people for having hurt feelings. All of us get hurt sometimes and there's nothing wrong with that. Just apologize and move on.

I know that Mayergirl didn't hurt anyone intentionally. I know that without a doubt. None of us ever implied that she hurt anyone intentionally. But people do get hurt accidently. That doesn't make it hurt any less. And that's no reason to condemn the person who got hurt.

We all hurt somebody unintentionally at some point. All we need to do is apologize and move on.

I don't think it's healthy for people to "ignore it" when their feelings are hurt. I do think that it's healthier to talk about it and work through it with the other person, but I also agree that that is better done in private, so I hope we can all learn these things from this experience.

I also want to say that just because one person has fun laughing at themselves, that doesn't mean that all of us have to be that way. It's just as legitimate and valid for some people to not be that way. And it's not right to say that one person's way of coping is the only right way.

Let's move on to other things now.
Thanks,
Joy

PS Somebody tried to post some angry responses regarding my shutting this thread down. For everyone who may have read her posts in that thread, I would like to clarify a few things.

1) We do not shut down conversations when they make a certain unhappy turn because we want to be Politically Correct. We do so because we have standards on this board about how we talk to each other, and we will do our best to uphold those standards in whatever ways we can.

We aren't perfect either, however, so we won't always have perfect wisdom on how to do that in every moment. We can only to the best we can in any moment.

2) Our message board is not meant to follow all the rules of, or mirror, our outside society or culture. We have our own society here, with its own set of rules. One of those rules is that we talk with each other in a kind, compassionate, respectful, and empathetic fashion. This is our rule, regardless of what is deemed acceptable in the outside world, or on other message boards.

3) We have no problem with debate. I enjoy participating in a good debate once in awhile myself. But we will not allow debates in which one side is being trivialized, or discredited, or invalidated, or labelled unkindly, or put down in any way.
Joy