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Hi gang,
Just posted pics of the ceramic coated oven racks on flickr. Also the pics of the safety valve and pilot light.
Installed the safety valve B4 seeing all the posts from stoveman - I'll plan on changed the installation method of the safety valve below the floor of the cabinet.
Wife just informed me she dosen't want to move Matty into the kitchen until we remodel. Makes since to me since I know the dust will be incredible.
Thnk you for the photo history on sadiepikes! What a beautiful job you are doing! Where will I find info on the steps and products to do all that for my stove.. degrease, remove rust, how to dismantle all the parts, the paint, chrome polish, whatever you did to the timer with the spray...I must be on the site if I dig around
Thanks again. I am taking it all in .
To find the steps you can dig around on this site, also several of us have flickr sites where you can watch the restoration step-by-step. Find a link to one such site in my signature block below...
I can't wait to hear how the "ceramic coating" holds up.
We are still cleaning the dust from our kitchen remodel and when we had our roof redecked and reroofed. It seems like a never ending battle for me!!
Jenn,
I used 3/16" tubing for the pilot light bringing it out the back of the thermostat. The fittings and tubing on MATTY were for 1/8" pipe. Fittings for this size are tough to find. I got mine from a hose and fitting distributor but I think Ace Hardware may have them to adapt from 1/8" to 3/16" or 1/4" tubing. I've had more problems with the pilot light fittings availability than anything. The original pilot, tubing, and fittings in my case were for 1/8".
3/8" tubing for the supply line is easy to find. My local appliance supplier ordered the safety valve - they had the pilot light and thermocouple in stock.
Berlyn,
I'm generally a doityourself guy.
Wife and I have decided to hire a designer/contractor to do our kitchen cause we can't be down for 6-8 months. One month or slightly longer is tolorable. We certainly have an old kitchen and she deserves a new kitchen.
Do you or anybody have any suggestions on picking a kitchen contractor? There is probably a forum somewhere on the net.
Ron;
You should chat with Ha_Asfan (aka Robert). He's an interior designer with loads of experience, fabulous taste, and a great sense of humor. If he can't help you himself, he could send you in the right direction.
Ann
Ron, I design kitchens...are you looking for a General Contractor or will you act as your own general ? I would start with finding a good cabinet maker. A cabinet maker can make anything you like and won't limit you to 3" increments or anything else. If you hire a general, he/she will work with your cabinet maker. As for cabinet specifics: a painted finish is the easiest to repair and to change, bottom mounted drawer glides will allow you to use a larger drawer, no side room needed for side mounted glides and there will no dirt accumulating on the side mounts. Base cabinets with doors and pullout trays waste a LOT of space and are not convenient to use. Base cabinets that are drawers only work the best. By eliminating the doors and the tracks needed to pull shelves out, you increase your storage space and eliminate the unnecessary extra step of opening doors to get to shelves. Good tracks will support one hundred pounds per drawer. Before you begin to layout your kitchen, do a COMPLETE INVENTORY. Know exactly how many pans you have,how many pots, lids, bowls, tools, et al...break them down into material categories: cast iron, enamel, stainless, aluminum....in your planning, make certain there is space for everything and include for expansion. Make a traffic pattern map of how you use your kitchen...where you stand the most, where you do all of your individual chores, what drawers and cabinets are you in and out of the most. If this sounds like too much, setup a video cam and tape yourself doing a complete meal, prep, cook and cleanup. You will see definite patterns developing. Every kitchen should have types of work surfaces: wood block for cutting and chopping, marble, granite, soapstone, slate, any slab stone for dough work. NEVER cut on stone. Stainless can function as stone if you prefer. Synthetic surfaces do not function as well as the materials they are immitating. There shoud be undercabinet task lighting, Xenon is the best and the lamps should be placed towards the front of the cabinets. Overhead recessed lighting should never be positioned directly over your work areas, they should always be to the side to avoid cast down shadowing. Cabinet pulls should be large enough to easily grab with messy hands and void of incising for easy cleaning. Your flooring should be sound absorbant, temperature responsive and cushioning to the feet and back. Avoid stone, ceramic and porcelian and look at cork, genuine linoleum [NOT VINYL], bamboo and wood. Undermount sinks are the easiest for cleaning, undermount farm sinks allow you to get closest to the sink. Faucets should not contain any plastic componets at all. The BEST faucet for the $ on the market is the Chicago faucet...not a lot of models to choose but the highest quality around. If you want local sources for any product, let me know and I can steer you [and everyone else] to a local distributor.
Hi Ron,
It seems like I'm the next person who'll be going ahead on the safety system, so I hope you don't mind if I quiz you a bit on specifics.
I was looking at your pics. What size pilot lines are you using? Is it 1/4 inch, or is it smaller?
Where is your pilot gas supply coming from? I can't quite spot it in the photos. Sam had us put a "T" into the main supply. Wondering if you found another spot.
Thanks for the pics any any info you can give.
-jenn
Thanks for the good words....one important thing I forgot was to adjust your counter heights to your needs. If you do a lot of baking or chopping, you may want to drop your counters two or three inches. Conversely, if you are very tall, raising your counters is the was to go. Berlyn is right, REFERENCES are crucial. Don't buy according to price...and if you do bid out the job, be certain you are bidding apples to apples.
Robert, WOW...and thanks. Our dream is to update our 1950s, knotty pine kitchen centered around our restored "Dottie". Your suggestions and ideas got Laura's and my wheels turning. Again, thank you very much. PS: I'm sure we'll have plenty of more questions as time goes on. Pete
Any question any time. I can't ween myself from this forum anyway so just ask away !
HA,
I was thinking about cork flooring for my kitchen. How does it hold up between kids and dogs?
Treatmaker
Look through magazines and get idea's. Color schemes, styles you want, etc....
We went with tile due to easy clean up and cool during our hot hot hot summers. Our german shepard loves it!! We have a small galley kitchen and I tried to take advantage of every inch. There was no option of enlarging it. We did have a sleeping porch, framed in the windows and widen the door opening, so it would "flow" together. My house was built in the 1880's before kitchens and cr*ppers. You never know what might be behind a wall!! You can see how "choppy" the kitchen is;i.e ceiling and wall. Nothing is straight.
Quite a challenge for hubby!!
Without question, cork flooring is one of the most durable, comfortable, maintenance free, good looking, hypo allergenic, easy to install, moderate priced and forgiving floor coverings around. Cork is harvested from trees once every eight years. The harvest does not damage the tree. Cork is cool in the summer and warm in the winter, it has beautiful acoustic properties, is soft under foot, forgiving for any fragile items that may fall upon it and also for sharp knives that may cut it. The cellular structure of the cork is billions of tiny gas filled bubbles that provide all of previous mentioned benefits. A knife may pierce it but it will immediately heal itself with the expansion of it's cells. There are many types, varieties and systems available ranging from simple unfinished 12" x 12" squares to finished sqaures and onto the more modern tech snap and lock glueless systems. There is a wide color range as well as a wide range of patterns. When planning a kitchen, the first floor I suggest is either a natural cork floor or a Linoleum [not vinly] floor. Linoleum is far more flexible for colors and any custom designs one may want to do. For cork flooring, try looking at: Nova Cork, Duro-Design & Natural Cork. Nova Cork is what I use the most. For Linoleum, look at Forbo.
I forgot to add: Cork floors I installed over 20 years ago in HEAVY USE kitchens with big dogs and kids look as good today as they did when first installed. The modern engineered floors need no maintenance what so ever and only the most slightly damp mop to clean them. Linoleum, in a residential setting has a 50yr life expectancy but requires periodic maintenance and polishing. Depending upon your region, expect to pay between $7.50 and $10.00 per square foot for cork, installed.
We have hardwood floors in our 84-year old house. When the kitchen floor needed redoing, there was a layer of sheet vinyl over 1940's linoleum, over the original hardwood. Some walls had been pulled over the years and so it would have looked bad to patch in all the changes with hardwood. So they ripped out the whole floor and laid down new hardwood and blended it to match the old. We have to be a little bit careful around the sink area not to spill gallons of coffee and grape juice, but we love the look and feel of hardwood floors and wouldn't have anything else. Mrs. Adams will sit on a section of the original hardwood floor, but she'll cover it with her great bulk.
Mark, if your wood floors have a water based polyurethane finish or a natural wax or an oil [not oil based poly] finish, you don't need to be too careful. All those finishes can handle "spot" refinishing. One thing I know for sure, your feet, legs and backs don't suffer from working on an overly hard floor ! Enjoy your hardwood floors, they'll last forever !
We have what is called a 'Glitsa' finish. I'm not sure if it's urethane or what, but we had tile floors in Austin and it took me hours of scrubbing to clean the coffee stains out of the grout in prep for showing the house. So we're being extra careful not to spill stuff on the new floor.
If you've got a GLITSA finish, you're in GREAT SHAPE ! Glitsa in a Swedish product, very very very durable and lone wearing, easy to maintain and easy to refinish. Grout is a cleaning nightmare, I know, it is the mistake I made in this house ! Bleach will clean grout but only to a degree and it has a nasty tendency to decay the grout.....you'll love your Glitsa !
So is Glitsa a urethane or what? I never got a straight answer from the floor guys. Then again, they spent all their work day inhaling Glitsa fumes, their brains were fried!
Glitsa manufactures alcohol based and water based...they may also do a poly, not certain of that. If you've got a can of product laying around, the label clearly and prominently states "waterborne" is that is what it is. if no cans are to be found, check with the installer. A glista finish is a very difficult finish to damage...unless you drag a 425 pound stove across the floor [who would do that ?] and put some scratches in it, chances are good that you won't damage in under normal use.
This is for Them Pikes. I don't understand how your safety system can work. If you took your Pilot gas from the rear of the Thermostat, It will be controled by the Oven Handle. So, when you cut off the oven, The pilot will go out and the safety will drop out and have to be reset. I seems to me that you will have to light your pilot every time you turn on the oven and push the reset button. The pilot should be connected to a gas source that is available no matter what position any gas handles are in.
I would definately let Asfan guide you on this one. He's got mucho experience dealing with contractors!!
One word of advice----references!!
We were without a kitchen for about 6 months. Hubby did most of the work and only contracted the flooring out. He did the plumbing which the major thing was relocating the water heater. He did all the electical, carpentry work, crown molding, custom made shelves, frame work, etc.... He even cut down my grandmothers canning shelf to fit properly in the space!! I just the painter, project planner and decorator.
He's just a super handy dandy talented hubby!! Along with being a **** retentive perfectionist!!
Here's our kitchen remodel. I need to update the pics of some small things he finished out but haven't. He made the breakfast table in high school!! He's just a talented and knowledgable guy!!
[img]biggrin.gif[/img] I'm one lucky person to have him!!
Berlyn
Great info on Kitchen design! We put one cadinet of drawers in our kitchen and wish we had done more. Your suggestion on lighting is right on, too. We didn't put any undercabinet lights at first, but found out at the first meal prep that we messed up. I only took me 2 years for me to get around to putting up the undercounter lights. We must have read your mind on the other items also. Wood floors are so much easier on our old knees and backs. We had to cut down a big Red Oak tree to make room for the house and had it cut up into 3/4" thick boards. Used the red oak for the counter top. Gave the oak several coats of poly what ever varnish and it is holding up great. Again, I know it is your business and you must be very good at it because all of your suggestions are right on! Thanks, Sam
Hubby suggested under cabinet lighting and did it.
The best thing ever!! I absolutely love it!!
Robert, thanks for all the advise. We've been thinking about this kitchen remodel for years - saving until we could do it without borrowing the money lol... Nothing short of CUBIC DOLLARS. The MRS is very practical on most things but she insist on Hickory cabinets with a medium stain. Granite counter tops, MATTY in her spot under the wooden range hood, undercounter xenon lighting, recessed lighting in the ceiling.
Excellent idea on the slide out trays in the cabinets being a space hog. Think she'll change her mind and also save some bucks. One hundred pound rating on the drawers is an excellent option too.
I'll look into the Chicago facuet Mrs has a style in mind. It's a brand I will search out on the internet.
We have red oak wooden flooring 1 1/2" wide and will stick to that.
Incidently we'll be removing a load bearing wall making a 13 x 16 kitchen. We might add an island. And are talking with only two kitchen remodeling companies that have been around a long time. We'll pick one of them and turn them loose. I'd do it myself but we can't be down for months and I'm not as young as I used to be.
Robert,
Thanks for the exciting info on kitchen design. I installed base cabinet drawers when I was on Kauai, a couple of years ago. I really found them useful. It truely is amazing what you can fit in them - I guess it is because the drawer sides contain the stack (I have a lot of accroutrament ). How long can a drawer be? I have a 14 X 14 kitchen with (right now any way) 4 door openings. One side is a walkway. In the end I have to juggle the cabinet layout to get good storage. I will be removing one door, and this will leave a long counter (about 10 feet or so) that will have a lazy susan at the corner (are these still the best use of corner space?) Do you see a long bank of drawers (on a peninsula arrangement) ? Will that look pleasing?
I am planning to use butcher block counter tops and a stone island top, real linoleum (my floor is not quite flat so I can't use tile), cabinets a to be made by my cabinet making class (so I get to design them!) I think white with a small arch in the toe kick and frame and panel doors, an Ikea apron white farm sink (great price and fabulous looking), I like the idea of white and wood with my copper C. Perhap the floor to be a verdigris shade - perhaps checkered with cream.
Any comments? THanks for offering to be a resource! I wish everyone on this site could live near me! What a pool of talent we would be!
Hi Phoebe, It sounds like you are well on your way using the right materials for the job. I'm beginning to see it as the Chambers Way...design it right, built it right and use it forever. I've designed drawers as wide as 36 inches. Drawers that large are fabulous for lots of storage of larger items, large boxes, cans, bag and also for storage of dinner service, stacks of plates, bowls and service pieces. Corners are best suited for the Lazy Susan. No more dead ends or blind corners. Think about a BIG Lazy Susan, a floor to ceiling model. I have a floor to ceiling Lazy Susan in my kitchen and it is the best component of all. The look of a long row of drawer bases is fantastic. Layout the drawer widths to accomodate your work needs, narrow drawers near the sink and dishwasher....wider drawers in prep and work areas...I think the long bank of drawers is the most visually pleasing look around. AHHHH!!!! LINOLEUM!!!!! The best [along with Cork]. Hundreds of colors and patterns, unbeatable wear and maintenance. Easy installation. Forbo offers the nicest [in my opinion], Armstrong has offerings too but I do not find their selection or product as nice as Forbo. When laying out your kitchen, with your inventory list in hand, really think about where you want each particular item...hold a rolling pin in your hand and think about where it should be for ultimate ease....do you want it in a long narrow drawer or a wide drawer ? In a wide drawer, it will roll back and forth, ina narrow drawer, it will remain fairly still...the art of zen and your kitchen tools ! It works !
Since we are off-grid I made sure to only get light fixtures that would accept compact florescent bulbs. Although it seemed like most of the really neat fixture were halogen, I did find some great ones that took medium base bulbs. Halogen are really hot and use a lot more energy than compact florescent - just one more thing to keep in mind.
Ann
Wow Robert - I was very impressed with your design advice. It was very enjoyable reading through your tips. Kitchen design has always been near & dear to my heart. I recently ordered a book on kitchen design that I had heard good things about - 'A Complete Guide to Kitchen Design with Cooking in Mind' by Donald E. Silvers (Editor) http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...7097&x=4810802 Unfortunately I was disappointed when the book arrived. Perhaps I was expecting too much. It probably is a good book for someone with limited knowledge of kitchens. Do you have any recommended reading material? Better yet, have you written any books lately? Thanks again, Belinda
Happy to help...on faucets, don't buy anything with plastic components...the basr drawer cabinets are life savers, are you doing a counterdepth refrigerator ? recessed lighting be careful of placement to avoid shadowing...remember dimmers ! Halogen lighting is the best, you can use either line voltage or 12v...in a standard can with a down baffle, use black to cut glare and look at PAR lamping for online voltage. With a good sized kitchen you have space for different counter materials and it is worth conseidering one working zone in butcher block maple as your primary cutting chopping zone. Dark granite absorbs more light than lighter stones and you need to compensate but beware of glare off the stone. Have fun and send us *** !
Sammy D
See your point.
The original pilot was connected to the thermostat and that's why I used it. Did they have to be lit every time they were used?
Robert,
She likes the counter depth Kenmore Elite side by side. Consumer reports rates it tops.
This is for Ron Pike's question about the original oven pilot's function, and how it relates to safety system function.
With the original oven pilot configuration and no safety installed, the gas flows to both the oven burner and oven pilot whenever the gas valve (chrome handle) is open and the thermostat is set to a highter temp than the oven is currently at. So, in a cold oven, you set the temp, turn on the gas (with the chrome handle), and then light the oven burner. The pilot is lit at the same time because gas is flowing to it, and the burner flame is close enought to light it.
When the oven reaches the set temp, gas to the oven burner stops, but the pilot gas continues to flow and thus to burn. When the temp drops, the thermostat allows gas to flow to the burner again, and the pilot lights it. The pilot will burn as long as the gas valve to the oven is open, as long as everything functions properly and you lit the oven in the first place.
With a safety system:
With the safety valve in place and the pilot supply taken off the thermostat, you will need to reset the safety valve every time you use the oven. There will be no standing pilot.
In this version, you set the thermostat, turn on the gas, and light the oven. But now you have to do it at the same time you're also holding down the red button on the safety. You will need to hold it down for enough time to allow the thermocouple to heat up and be able to produce the current needed to maintain the gas safety valve in its open position. It seems like everything would work just like in the original configuration after this point. As soon as you turn off the oven gas supply, the safety will trip closed, and then you'll have to repeat the process next time you use the oven.
If your pilot supply is from the thermostat, the safety valve could not be located beneath the service cabinet floor, because you will need easy access every time you want to use the oven.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Sam, but I think this would "work" from a safety standpoint, but it might be a pain in the neck to actually use.
-jenn
Sorry to put that all in the middle of the design advice. This thread has two very different subtopics.
Good advice, Robert!!
-j
Jenn, You are so up to speed on oven safety! Right on! I haven't had a chance to get back to the do it yourself thread, but will shortly. Just a short note. I have mounted the 1800 pilot horizional in the same location as the old pilot. But you are correct, we need to get off this great Kitchen discussion thread. The kitchen discussion is Great. Lots of good information!
I'm glad the kitchen design thread is enjoyable reading ! No, I haven't written any books on kitchen design...it's the potential autograph sessions and groupies that put me off ! Most of the kitchen design books out there are awful. Lot's of glossy photos of pretty mundane stuff that usually promote new products which aren't so good once you have them installed. My knowledge comes from experience of 25 years in the design industry, countless lectures, seminars and more than anything else, OBSERVATIONS of how people cook. Books don'twork because each cook has his/her own methodology which much be respected. I can guide people but I can't change people and it is better to give you a kitchen you can work with within your established pattern than to change that pattern of use. I try to apply the basic fundamentals of ergonomic design and use...counter heights, cabinet heights,depths, materials, illumination, handles and then the placement of items within the cabinetry...ex: a 75 yr old baker is better off storing heavy flour in an eye level cabinet than a base cabinet. It is easier to place and move the heavier items without the need to bend and stoop...look at the old Hoosier Cabinets....everything heavy at eye level. Just like the Chambers In A Top Brolier...no dangerous bending and stooping. Someof the best kitchen designs and old designs from an era when people truly cooked. Most modern kitchen designs are for microwave experts....those like Jane Jetson who may get "fingeritis" from pushing too many buttons than sore shoulders from over kneading their dough. One component sorely missing in many contemporary kitchens is the old kitchen table...a necessary place to sit down and peel vegetables, read a recipe, even take a little break...islands, bars and such do not replace a kitchen table....and if you're making strudel dough, without a table you can walk around, well, it's almost impossible. So, to be modern, think old!
Robert - you bring up some good points about the uniqueness of each cook, so maybe a book is not the best source of info. But how about a programming template? Something that would prompt the cook/homeowner to consider all of the relevant issues? Belinda
Good thought....how to get everyone to understand all the steps in the use of a space...I think there was a movie about that...it was Cheaper By The Dozen with Clifton Webb, Jeanne Crain, Myrna Loy and everyone else who was working Hollywood those days...It was the story of the Field of Motion expert and his family, the wife and 12 kids....every activity was studied and a specific amount of time was alloted for each...that, in many ways, is what is done in primary design evaluations, how a space is used. Going back to an early suggestion, if you want to know how you use your space, setup your video cam and let it run while you work...you WILL be amazed. The idea isn't to change how you dothings, you won't change...the idea is to make each step count more. When I cook, I wash up as I go along...using a bowl, washing a bowl and putting that bowl away. So, I keep my bowls on open shelving next to the sink where I do mixing...simple things like that really work.