Local Issues....Pick one

1 &2 are tied together. The completion of the Banks project would most likely increase traffic to the freedom center.

As for the Banks, well I'll quote an old Bugs Bunny Song...

"there aint no place like a
hole in the gound
a hole in the ground
a hole in the ground..."

It's impressive to see the two Semi new stadiums and the freedom center on the riverfront, except for the fact that there is a huge hole-like plot of dirt there as well. [img]graemlins/thumbs_down.gif[/img]

As for the Bearcats. NCAA rules have changed and I'm pretty sure that once grades posted they suspensions start right away. (it used to be that they could, in fact, complete a tournament if they were still playing in it.

I like Cronin, and I like Andy Kennedy so I'm good with the hiring.
Cronin is a Cincinnati guy who knows how to win. He has teis with the Big East allready though us and Louisville, so he will be welcome into the Big East coach fraternity with open arms. I'm sure Kennedy is happy to be going home to Mississippi and I wish him good luck and offer my thanks for what he did for the bearcats while here. I am also happy the Huggs got a nice gig in a major conference, just as I expected he would. I also wish him good luck and thank him for all he did here at UC.
Mick Cronin, welcome aboard. The cupboard here is far from bare and the next signing period, which begions shortly, will be your real first impression on this program as it's head coach. As a Bearcat Alumni, I offer you my support and hope that you can carry on the winning tradition here at UC.
Congrats on getting the job here at UC.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 24, 2006 10:22 AM: Message edited by: cincygreg ]</font>

1)The Freedom center. Can you say, we told you so. What a joke

2)Why in the hell can Newport build, build and build, and the We can't figure what to do with "The Banks"

3) UC Basketball. I can agree with firing Huggins(back when he had DUI)...the timing sucked, the way they did it sucked. Then not to hire Kennedy after he did a tremendous job with what he had to work with. And the latest....White and Muhammad's suspension did not have to take effect until the start of the next quarter(MONDAY)...guess UC wanted a loss so they could announce Cronin as head coach before Kennedy announced Ole Miss, and to try and shadow Huggin's going to Kansas.

Oh, well, PAYING for it. I can see why you may resent that.

I did not realize that was what OBK was saying about the Freedom Center from her original post.

I'm also glad I'm not paying for the Stadium.

About Bob Huggins:

The timing of his contract termination had more to do with Huggins than Zimpher.

In June 2004, Huggins automatic rollover was eliminated, subsequent to his DUI.

A year later, in May 2005, the University denied the rollover again, offered Huggins the option of: 1) a contract buyout, 2) a fund raising position within the University, or 3) the freedom to work the remaining two years of his contract.

A few days later - after the University twice denied his contract extension - Huggins held a press conference telling YOU he was coaching the remaining two years out of loyalty to his players, his fans, and the city.

Problem is, just short of a month later, Huggins' attorney, Richard Katz, was sitting with the University attorneys, telling them it did no one any good for Huggins to coach without an extension.

So the terms that Huggins agreed to about 30 days prior - and his loyalty - "suddenly" weren't enough. Now he wasn't willing to work without an extension.

At the University's request, Katz offered severance options, which were discussed throughout the summer. The University subsequently turned down further requests by Huggins for the extension.

So there they were at an impass. Huggins wasn't willing to work without an extension, the University wasn't willing to give one.

Finally on August 8, the University made note of this impass and decided there was nothing else to discuss. On August 15, the University sent Katz a note saying among other things that they would terminate Huggins' contract without cause.

8 days later on August 23, Huggins was given final notice.

Huggins hops off the plane at the airport, greeted by media. He tells them he first heard about this through them, a story he stuck with a couple months later during an interview with ESPN. It was a blatant lie. He knew it was coming.

So let's not be all sympathetic to Huggins.

Off the record, I've got some more juicy stuff, but I won't put it into print.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 24, 2006 11:47 PM: Message edited by: The Big Sexy ]</font>

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Then not to hire Kennedy after he did a tremendous job with what he had to work with. And the latest....White and Muhammad's suspension did not have to take effect until the start of the next quarter(MONDAY)...guess UC wanted a loss so they could announce Cronin as head coach before Kennedy announced Ole Miss, and to try and shadow Huggin's going to Kansas.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Kennedy has done a remarkable job, HOWEVER:

1. He's not local. Cronin is.

2. He has not verbally expressed interest in the job, even when asked point blank. Cronin has.

3. He has not coached an NCAA tournament game. Cronin has. Two, in fact.

4. His recruiting hasn't been as good as Cronin's was while at UC.

5. Kennedy doesn't have as much experience as a head coach as Cronin.

6. Kennedy had Bob Huggins sit courtside and publicly acknowledged him at the West Virgnia game. Hardly seems like someone who really wants the job.

UC gave Kennedy the opportunity of a lifetime. No way an inexperienced head coach gets to lead a team in the Big East in his first year.

Zimpher may be a bitch, but that bitch just made Kennedy's career. Too bad Kennedy aligned himself with Huggins.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 24, 2006 03:50 PM: Message edited by: The Big Sexy ]</font>

Alright, now for the bottom line on these issues:

1) Freedom Center- I may not have travelled like Trav, but I did work six summers at AAA, and I do know a thing or two about tourism/marketing. In the ideal world, you have a "home run" that can draw by itself- St. Louis has its arch, Baltimore has its aquarium (which, in turn, begat its renewed Inner Harbor), Madison has the Lanier Mansion (OK gratuitous plug). Cincinnati doesn't have a "home run." So in that situation, and this speaks to what Greg alluded to, you have to have an entire area of multiple draws. At the time it was built, the Freedom Center was all there was in that immediate area (other than the Reds stadium, in use 81 days a year, and the Bengals' stadium, in use 10 days). Now, when the built the Reds Hall of Fame, that added one more draw. But there is a need for more. Ideally, you will have an area where a family can park the car, and, within walking distance, have several things to do, several places to eat, shopping, etc. Cleveland's lakefront is that way now. Pittsburgh developed both the Mon and Allegheny riverbanks. I'm not ready to give up on the Freedom Center yet, but it's not a home run, you have to build more around it (or within walking distance).

2) The Banks are not developed because we're talking about Hamilton County, Ohio. This is the same crowd that lost our airport to Boone County; that took 50 years to build Cross-County highway; hell before that they built subway tunnels with no subways. It has always been this way in Cincinnati, and based on our current crop of 'leaders,' I see no change on the horizon.

I'll expound on Huggins next time 'round...

I wonder if there may be any law enforcement officials in the CPD or otherwise who may know of circumstances where Huggins may have been caught doing naughty things but let go.

I heard the rumor that Huggins is somewhat of an ongoing joke in our local police department. If anyone would care to expound upon that, it would be great. True? False?

Oh, and from these rumors, I understand the problem was not just erratic driving.

One more thing. I heard this from two people, one who knows police officers, and the other a former UC athlete who hates Zimpher - in other words, not exactly people who are out to bash Huggins.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 25, 2006 10:34 AM: Message edited by: The Big Sexy ]</font>

I've been to the Freedom Center. It is really very impressive, and will attract out-of-otwn visitors and I think it is a Good Thing for the city. I went there on an elementary school field trip as a chaperone, and it was by far the most educational field trip I have ever attended. For the schools of the area, it is a Good Thing. But I haven't gone back. I think it is kind of like any major attraction any city has, people who live there don't always go unless they are going with out-of-town guests.

When my relatives come to visit, I would consider taking them there. But that would be after taking them to Jungle Jim's, which has an infinitely lower entrance fee and pretty amazing stuff inside. And I don't feel vaguely guilty after going to Jungle Jim's. And I go back often.

Maybe Jungle Jim should relocate to the Banks. And he could use his monorail to link to the Freedom Center and the Stadium. Wouldn't that be fun?
[img]smile.gif[/img]

Quote:

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Originally posted by Dulcinea:
I've been to the Freedom Center. It is really very impressive, and will attract out-of-otwn visitors and I think it is a Good Thing for the city. I went there on an elementary school field trip as a chaperone, and it was by far the most educational field trip I have ever attended. For the schools of the area, it is a Good Thing. But I haven't gone back. I think it is kind of like any major attraction any city has, people who live there don't always go unless they are going with out-of-town guests.

When my relatives come to visit, I would consider taking them there. But that would be after taking them to Jungle Jim's, which has an infinitely lower entrance fee and pretty amazing stuff inside. And I don't feel vaguely guilty after going to Jungle Jim's. And I go back often.

Maybe Jungle Jim should relocate to the Banks. And he could use his monorail to link to the Freedom Center and the Stadium. Wouldn't that be fun?
[img]smile.gif[/img]

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You like the slave museum then you pay for it. But no you live out in the burps with nice neighborhoods and good roads while my tax dollars are going to be funding the 5M shortfall every year when my streets are crumbling.

Oldie, I take exception to your comments regarding White and Muhammed.

Just whose fault was it that they were academically ineligible in the first place?

I know it's the cool thing to blame everything bad on mean, old Nancy, but here's a few facts:

We don't know the extent of the academic failings. There are privacy laws that protect White and Muhammed, and unless they waive those rights, we will not know what exactly they did or didn't do. Plus the rules regarding eligibility have become more restrictive.

I guess this bias of pointing fingers at Zimpher without even knowing the failings of the players is typical of the mindless rant against the adminstration that is unwarranted.

Yes, a lot of this has been done clumsily, but I don't know how one easily puts your foot down against a program that has been rogue too long. I blame Huggins first and foremost for putting where we are today. It's not Zimpher's fault that Huggins is a first class slimeball.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 25, 2006 10:32 AM: Message edited by: The Big Sexy ]</font>

Kennedy made Kennedy's career by the way he handled himself and the team this season, he showed another school in a major conference that he was ready to handle that job full time. I think it's great that he's going home to Mississippi and that he has earned this kind of opportunity. I would have been great with him staying on at UC< but I am happy that he did, in fact earn himself a shot at a full time coaching job and that he's doing it in a place he probably really wanted to go.
Everybody won.
Huggs and Kennedy move on to great new jobs.
Cronin comes home to UC with an opportunity to coach in the top conference in the country this year.
UC moves on, everyone moves on and all is right in the world of college hoops.

Now, lets move the fountain again so we cant afford to build the banks project [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 25, 2006 11:53 AM: Message edited by: cincygreg ]</font>

I do stand corrected on White an Mohommad...NCAA changed the rule. And yes BS, it was their fault. But Nancy's goal in "cleaning up" the BB program took a step backwards. But in all honesty, with all the the things that have happened this year, I'm sure it was very easy for the athletic dept to drop the ball in seeing that these guys are passing their courses.

I'm not a big Huggins fan. I think he is a good developmental coach...I'm not a fan of his game coaching though. I have not problem with him being booted....it's just the way they did it, and the PR afterwards. I think Cronin is a good choice...and chances are, he could of been the "chosen one" since the start of the season. For all we know, Kennedy knew it and just did what he was paid to do, interim coach. Of course, they could not release the info.

As for the Freedom Center. It was a given that the tax dollars were going to have to be pumped in at some point. And now if it comes down to a voter choice of paying for it....the whole race issue will be debated. They should of added a wing to the Natural History museum.

I don't see the Freedom Center as an anchor of the banks. The stadiums are the anchors. Cincinnati is a sports town....time to admit it, and build upon it.

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I have not problem with him being booted....it's just the way they did it, and the PR afterwards.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What I'm saying is, the way he got "booted" was Huggins' doing.

Zimpher was hired on specifically to enhance UC academics. She organized hundreds to come together and put together a plan. Despite all this work, she was immediately left to deal with a drunken coach, a drunken assistant coach, a player packing heat, another player with a DUI...

The woman was handed a public relations nightmare, and THAT was not of her own doing. It's time to start placing the blame where it needs to be placed: HUGGINS.

Zimpher has been put in a no-win situation. New to the job, she was put into the position of having to reprimand him - get rid of him. That's not her fault.

People say, they should have fired him right away. Sure. No matter what the woman did, she's an evil witch. And that's Huggins fault.

Huggins was given the option to bow out gracefully; instead he chose to fight and do so in a manner that intentionally made the adminstration look bad. The man has created enormous ill-will, and that is HUGGINS doing, not Zimphers.

I've heard it from a couple people that behind the scenes there were other behaviors of Huggins that were the icing on the cake.

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Kennedy made Kennedy's career by the way he handled himself and the team this season, he showed another school in a major conference that he was ready to handle that job full time.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That opportunity was afforded him by Zimpher.

Before this season, Kennedy couldn't get a job at Louisiana Monroe or Southern Miss. Zimpher makes Kennedy coach, and now he's got a job in the SEC.

She had nothing to do with the way the team played or his proving himself to be a worthy candidate for head coaching jobs.

The opportunity to be the head coach at UC was brought upon by his abilities he showed as an assistant under Huggins and, she had nothing to do with him having that assistant coaching job at all.

Quote:

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Originally posted by cincygreg:
She had nothing to do with the way the team played or his proving himself to be a worthy candidate for head coaching jobs.

The opportunity to be the head coach at UC was brought upon by his abilities he showed as an assistant under Huggins and, she had nothing to do with him having that assistant coaching job at all.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Greg. Listen closely. His assistant coaching responsibilities couldn't get him a job at LOUISIANA MONROE. Until Kennedy became a head coach, his skills weren't marketable enough to get a head coaching job at a no name school.

In no other lifetime does someone with Kennedy's qualifications - or lack thereof - get him a job in the best basketball conference in the land. He can only thank Zimpher for that opportunity.

Kennedy may have had the skills, but he didn't have the experience. Zimpher gave Kennedy to once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to display those coaching skills against the best teams in the country.

If Kennedy didn't get this opportunity, he's fighting to get a head coaching position at some crap school in East Butt Fuck.

Assistant coaches are given head coaching opportunities at universities other than the one the currently coach at quite often. Many times it's their head coach who reccomends them for another possition. Andy Kennedy is a fine coach and was , in fact, given an opportunity here to show that he can handle the head coaching possition. That is all she did, and she didnt even do that. Had they not had someone like Kennedy here, the bearcats may have been in even a bigger mess.
That's all past now. And you still dont know anything at all about college sports in general. In fact, you dont really know that much about anything at all.

Time to move on. Welcome Mick Cronin and move forward.
Time for UC to continue it's winning ways despite having people like you around. LOL!

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 27, 2006 09:19 AM: Message edited by: cincygreg ]</font>

Quote:

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Originally posted by cincygreg:
Assistant coaches are given head coaching opportunities at universities other than the one the currently coach at quite often. Many times it's their head coach who reccomends them for another possition. Andy Kennedy is a fine coach and was , in fact, given an opportunity here to show that he can handle the head coaching possition. That is all she did, and she didnt even do that. Had they not had someone like Kennedy here, the bearcats may have been in even a bigger mess.
That's all past now. And you still dont know anything at all about college sports in general. In fact, you dont really know that much about anything at all.

Time to move on. Welcome Mick Cronin and move forward.
Time for UC to continue it's winning ways despite having people like you around. LOL!

<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ March 27, 2006 09:19 AM: Message edited by: cincygreg ]</font></font>

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">greg. Listen. Kennedy WASN'T ABLE TO GET A HEAD COACHING JOB. HE TRIED. HE FAILED. TWICE.

Let's (god forbid) try logic on you.

Last year, you can't get a job at Louisiana Monroe, a jackass school in the middle of nowhere.

This year, you're offered a job in the SEC, arguably one of the top 5 basketball conferences in the country, at a school 30 miles from where you grew up.

This is a HUGE leap, greg. Ole Miss might not be Florida or LSU, but it's still the SEC.

Kennedy got the job at Ole Miss because he was afforded the extraordinary position of coaching at a top position in front of a nationwide audience. That IS the difference between now and before.

Zimpher was brought in to rein in Huggins. Huggy Bear had gotten too big for his britches. I'll check with my CPD sources about any prior Huggins "incidents"

Zimpher also wouldn't have given Cronin a 6 year deal if she was trying to sever all ties to Huggins.

As for the Freedom Museum. It's a no win for the city. You can't protest using taxpayer funds to keep the center open or you'll probably be labeled a racist.

I think it was a poor use of valuable land. The center should have been built, yes. But it should have been built elsewhere or like someone else said, a wing on the current museum center.

Now we have a soon to be taxpayer funded money black hole in place of what could have been a revenue generating development.

This is confusing, I find myself agreeing with a lot of Reason's posts today. I feel ok, though I was injected with a bunch of radioactive isotopes this morning, maybe that has something to do with it.

There's no question Huggins played the martyr card, but that was more Richard Katz' doing. Plus you have to do that, especially when you're out of work.

I do believe that Nancy should have stepped in and fired him immediately, since it was obvious (or should have been) that the lame duck 2 year run-off period wasn't going to work. But, the way it worked out in the end.....Kansas State got their guy, Ole Miss got their's. You're correct that Ole Miss struck while the iron was hot, but that's how the coaching carousel works. Stan Heath was just the greatest coach ever because he took lowly Kent State to the Elite 8, and Arkansas had to go snatch him up. Well, it's not like the Hogs have been hanging SEC titles from the rafters. You take a gamble when you hire a coach- AK may succeed, he may flop. Huggins does have a proven record, so one would think K-State would start to become good again. But even then there are no guarantees.

And as for Mick....well, he played for LaSalle while I was at X, and I remember he and his brother Dan and the crap they used to pull while running the point. But he did take Murray to the tournament, and they actually should have beaten UNC this time around. Give the man a chance, see what he can do.

I'm starting to think that Cronin was in the works from the very beginning of the season. I think Kennedy knew that, and was paid very well for this year and given the chance to prove himself. Which he did.

As I said, I jsut hink the PR dept of UC did not handle this well. I do think once next season starts....all will be forgotten. At least I hope so.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Oldie Blonde Kenobi:
I'm starting to think that Cronin was in the works from the very beginning of the season. I think Kennedy knew that, and was paid very well for this year and given the chance to prove himself. Which he did.

As I said, I jsut hink the PR dept of UC did not handle this well. I do think once next season starts....all will be forgotten. At least I hope so.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">BTW, I do think the administration needs to work on it's PR, but I also think Huggins pretty much waged a media campaign against Zimpher, one that has taken on a life of it's own.

I mean every little thing is now blamed on Zimpher, even the selection committee's decision. (As it turns out, it looks like they did a really good job.)

I found an awesome summary on Duke.com regarding last summer's debacle. It's more thorough than my analysis, but it fits to a T what I've been saying. Will post later.

Duke sucks

Quote:

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Originally posted by Law Dawg:
Zimpher was brought in to rein in Huggins. Huggy Bear had gotten too big for his britches. I'll check with my CPD sources about any prior Huggins "incidents"

Zimpher also wouldn't have given Cronin a 6 year deal if she was trying to sever all ties to Huggins.

.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have sent you an email regarding Huggins.

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I do believe that Nancy should have stepped in and fired him immediately, since it was obvious (or should have been) that the lame duck 2 year run-off period wasn't going to work.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In hindsight, I think firing Huggins would have been the best option. Here are reasons why they didn't fire right away:

1. You don't just fire someone like Bob Huggins. Yeah, it's easy for you to say fire the guy, but firing someone who just raised you from the dead and took you to 14 straight NCAA tournament appearances isn't exactly the easiest or most logical thing to do.

2. When this all came down, Zimpher was brand new. She may not have had the clout to do the deed, nor the credibility points to outright fire the guy, particularly since the University gave Huggins free reign for so long.

3. The University may have felt that nudging him out instead of firing him outright was the more politically correct and professional thing to do.

Think about it: One of the primary arguments people have against Zimpher is that she DIDN'T fire Huggins instead of letting him stay on. Crazy, ain't it?

It can also be argued that maybe the administration didn't think Huggins would accept a no-win lame duck coaching position, which is exactly what Huggins did - at least outwardly. It's clear Huggins only took the position simply to wage a media campaign against the University and specifically against Zimpher.

4. Extracurriculars. I'm fairly convinced the general public doesn't know the full details in the Bob Huggins file. If this stuff I've heard is true, it would go a long way toward explaining the nature and timing of the termination. Along the way, the University figured that some of this stuff was simply too much of a public relations nightmare and Huggins was too much of a liability.

*********************

Say what you want about Zimpher, but UC's rankings are up, student retention is up, enrollment is up, donations to the University are up, student satisfaction is up (according to an independent, third party survey).

From my own personal experience, I can tell you the school is so much more customer service oriented than it was when I attended back in the 80's. I had difficulty during the enrollment process over a year ago, so I filled out an online form. In short order, I had the assistant dean of the college call me with an apology, followed by a call from the head of the department. My problem was solved.

That NEVER would have happened years ago. This type of thing is the direct result of Zimpher's efforts to put students at the forefront. There's still work to be done, but things have improved dramatically.

My two cents worth.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 28, 2006 09:28 AM: Message edited by: The Big Sexy ]</font>

Reason, I think you have some very valid points.

My daughter has heard that UC's rankings for Dap, Engineering programs have gone down. Now that's from the college campus rumor mills and I don't have much stock in it. They have been proven wrong before. She's out of there in June(Thank God)

I do know my sister works with Nancy on occasion, and does not like her. She pretty tight-lipped as to why.

As for Huggins, your assesemnt is close. I think Huggins was instramental in waging this media war. I was really pissed when he showed up of the X-town shootout. He got more camera time then Kennedy...and Bob knew it was going to cause a stir. The classy thing would of been to watch it somewhere else IMO.

The one factor you did miss, was the move to the Big East. I do think Huggin's record(Not his police one) was a little bit of a help. Firing Huggins and an uncertain baksetball program, could of been a deal breaker. Let's face it, the foootball team does have much pull. LOL

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As for Huggins, your assesemnt is close. I think Huggins was instramental in waging this media war. I was really pissed when he showed up of the X-town shootout. He got more camera time then Kennedy...and Bob knew it was going to cause a stir. The classy thing would of been to watch it somewhere else IMO.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thank you. Thank you. THANK YOU!

I said the exact same thing! I'm watching the game thinking WHY! WHY IS HUGGINS THERE?

I mean, we were coming down the home stretch and UC is playing its heart out...and we saw Huggins something like 15 times in the last three minutes (literally). He got more time than Kennedy and Miller combined.

I argued this point on Cincinnati.com, and Huggins lovers saw no problem with Huggins' presence.

I think the courtside seat at the West Virginia game was even more heinous.

Oh...btw, after posting an anti-Huggins article from dukebasketballreport.com on Bearcatlair.com (which was very well written and documented), I was blacklisted from the UC site!

I was very careful to abide by the rules (no profanity, etc), and this article was the last thing I posted. I'm awaiting for the response to the question why I was blacklisted.

In the meantime, my post was met with profanity by Huggins lovers, yet they can still post. I'll provide the "offending article."

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 28, 2006 01:21 PM: Message edited by: The Big Sexy ]</font>

From Dukebasketballreport.com

This is an excellent summary of what I've been saying all along. Most awesome. Especially the part of how Huggins has been using the media against UC:

The Demise Of Bob Huggins 8/24/2005
The reaction in Cincinnati to the ultimatum given to Bob Huggins (resign or be fired) has been fast and furious.

The Cincinnati Enquirer has a page up for people to make comments about the situation, and the posts have been overwhelmingly angry.

And surprisingly, Nick Lachey, husband of Jessica Simpson, was wound up enough to write an article for the Cincinnati paper which sums up the basic position of the Supporters Of Bob (S.O.B's? Nahhh....)

We've listened to Cincinnati talk radio today via the Web and can't remember hearing a single comment against Huggins.

We're guessing unless you live in Cincinnati, you can't really understand the hold Huggins has on the city's affection.

And yet.

It's hard to overlook some things. One of the dissenting posts on the Enquirer's site read: "My favorite memory is when the player punched the police horse. No, it was when the one player used drugs and never got booted off the team. No, it was when the one player duct taped his roommate to the chair and beat him up. No, it was when the one player beat up his pregnant girlfriend and didnt (sic) get booted off the team. No, it was when the one player stole the University phone charge number and ran up a big bill and never got booted."

We have a Cincinnati fan who writes periodically to protest and say that these charges are usually not quite accurate, and that the Bearcats actually do graduate players. We just wanted to publicly note that to save him the time from saying it again.

The correspondence between attorneys, which is out, is revealing. Monica Rimai, general counsel for the University, and Richard L. Katz, who represents Huggins, starts off quite cordially, although Mr. Katz, who seems to be a bit of a rah-rah-go-team type, perhaps made a mistake in addressing her by her first name.

Well at least until her letter of August 8th. While relentlessly professional and cordial, Rimai really goes in for the kill:

"...If the past is indeed prologue, Mr. Huggins' actual track record of behavior belies an ability to deliver on his purported commitment."
"For example, the information you have shared with me states that over the course of his career at UC, 27 of his players....have eventually graduated from UC or another University. It is important, however, that we put that number into context. While coaching at UC, 95 students have either played for or been recruited by Mr. Huggins. Thus, according to your data, less than 30 percent of your client's players have graduated or gone on to success in the NBA. Moreover, twenty-seven graduates over sixteen years averages out to less than two per year, a rather unimpressive number given that first and foremost, UC is in the business of educating and graduating its students."
"In fact, according to [the] NCAA...since the 1990 recruiting class the overall graduation rate for UC basketball players is 20 percent, the lowest graduation rate of all athletic teams at UC. In four of nine reporting years, the graduation rate was zero."
"Moreover, by the end of this past Spring quarter the basketball team had posted the lowest average GPA of any other team in the athletic department. Of the players on that team, one student had a 0.0 gpa during the spring quarter, another would have, but for two incompletes, and two other students withdrew altogether...these 27 [graduates] are the exception not the rule for hte basketball program during the last 16 years."
"In addition, Mr. Huggins continues to recruit individuals that exhibit a disregard for the law and respectful behavior....For UC basketball recruit (sic) classes between 1990 and 2006, 21 of Mr. Huggins players have had significant encounters with law enforcement, most of those consisting of arrests, with many ending in convictions. This disturbing pattern continues right up to the present as three of Mr. Huggins' recruits or players have had very serious charges brought against them during the past year. Mr. Huggins' own behavior over the course of the last sixteen years, both on and off the court, demonstrates an inability to consistently model disciplined and professional conduct."
"In short, although Mr. Huggins' may claim some specific successes, the University is seeking an environment and climate where the development of the whole student is sought and the successful education of all our students is realized. And while some may argue that academically challenged individuals who experience difficulty conforming their behavior to appropriate norms deserve a chance at success that a winning collegiate basketball team can provide, UC believes that it can better advance its mission by building a winning program around scholar-athletes who earn degrees that will allow them to succeed not only in athletics but more importantly in life generally."
After this letter, Katz, obviously infuriated, drops any attempt at salutation, and simply starts his letter: "This will acknowledge receipt of your letter dated August 8..."

Up until this point, having no dog in this fight, we found Rimai to be the smoother of the two attorneys, and certainly the more articulate. At right about here is where Katz just starts letting it fly:

"Although responding to the University's allegations means that I stoop to it's level I find it necessary on behalf of my client to refute the absurd contentions."
"I also submit that the University speaks out of both sides of its mouth. It cannot make positive contributions towards solving economic and social challenges while at the same time casting aside those who may come to it for help as a result of economic and/or social disadvantages."
"Your suggestion that earning a degree is the only road to success in life flies directly in the face of and is a direct slap in the face to...Kenyon Martin, Nick Van Exel and others who have made millions [in the NBA]."
"...[m]any of the wealthiest individuals in the nation have built their wealth without college degrees. Bill Gates is one who comes to mind. These people probably believe that they are successful."
"Furthermore, the statement that he continues to recruit individuals 'that exhibit a disregard for hte law and respectful behavior' demeans everyone that he has recruited. Are you familiar with the facts surrounding each of the alleged '21 players' who have had significant encounters with law enforcement'?
"My client would also like to know what is meant by the characterization that 'the profile of the 2005-06 men's basketball team projects limited academic success and off-court discipline problems'? Has there been some expert evaluation that my client and his staff are unaware of or is this based upon an expert evaluation of someone not qualified to make such a statement? ... Shall we suggest to the basketball team that they are expected to fail and cause off the court problems this year since that is what their 'profile' indicates?"
"If the University desires to sever it's relationship with Bob Huggins then we are demanding $3,630,000...we will agree to negotiate the manner of payment. The alternative is a guaranteed extension to a total of five (5) years or a restoration of the four year roll-over contract."
"Please be further advised that this demand will remain open until 9 am on Tuesday, August 16, 2005. I cannot guarantee confidentiality after that time if this matter is not resolved."
The sarcasm and the threat Katz employed did not have a positive effect. Back to the unflappable Rimai, whose response is pretty much an instant classic:

"Dear Mr. Katz...Thank you for contacting me on August 9...regarding my letter of August 8...discussing the termination of Mr. Huggins' employment relationship with the University...and your letter of August 12...also in response to my August 8th letter. I appreciate your candor regarding this manner. Suffice it to say that our clients have remarkably different perspectives on the present situation, lending further credence to the notion that it is time for the University and Mr. Huggins to part company."


Ms. Rimai then spells out the specific legalities, which you can read for yourself, before slipping in a very professional insult: "...[you] argue that because UC failed to give subsequent notice, there remains three years on Mr. Huggins employment contract, not the two that we have discussed during the course of our negotiations. Frankly, Mr. Katz, I simply do not follow your logic on this claim."

Rimai continues:

"On May 11, 2005, a meeting did take place...to discuss your client's employment status. At the meeting, Mr. Huggins was presented several options to consider [about ending his career at UC]...the University directed Mr. Huggins to consider these options and to then contact Mr. Wesner, through you, with a decision....Neither you nor Mr. Huggins contacted UC as directed by the institution...Instead, Mr. Huggins held a press conference..where he announced that he planned on fulfilling his current contract instead of retiring...Perhaps more importantly, a continued long term employment relationship...makes little sense as a practical matter given all that has transpired in the media since May 11th....In sum, UC intends to terminate your client's contract...without cause..on a date certain.
"While there are significant differences between our clients' positions, with some creativity and a willingness to consider alternative approaches, I still believe we can find a mutually acceptable compromise. I do not believe, however, that we can find such a resolution if the matter once again becomes headline news. In my experience, public negotations are never productive because they stifle creativity and discourage candor. Indeed, I suspect earlier opportunities to resolve this situation were lost because of hyperbole and misrepresentations in the media...That said, you were very clear in your August 12th letter that after Tuesday morning you would no longer be bound by our confidentiality agreement. Let me be equally clear in saying that UC will not negotiate a resolution of this matter in the media, but instead, will execute its rights under the existing contract.
On August 15, Katz restored salutations, addressing her as "Dear Ms. Rimai." The letter is terse, only six paragraphs, contesting again the length of the contract and again demanding a list of the 21 players who had contact with the judicial system.

In Rimai's answer on August 23, the repeated warnings come to fruition:

"In addition, notwithstanding our agreement ot keep this matter confidential, information has been communicated to members of the media and influential members of the...community, regarding our meeting last Friday, and the status of negotiations generally. Accordingly, it is imperative that we resolve this matter quickly to avoid further speculation and rumor. To this end, I will need to hear from you by Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 2:00 p.m. regarding this offer; otherwise, the University will exercise its right to terminate Mr. Huggins' employment without cause pursuant to the clear and plain meaning of his employment contract."
She then offers a timeline of events which led to this point.

Kind, but unnecessary: she has pretty much eviscerated him.

And while the University seems to have the law on its side, the Huggins camp clearly has the mob in their corner, and there is some indication in these do***ents that they mean to use it.

Rimai clearly understands the implicit threat Katz makes when he suggests breaking that he may start talking publicly. After reading the comments readers posted on Cincinnati.com and listening to some of the worst sports talk radio we've ever heard, it's clearly a potent weapon.

And for Huggins, it's a familiar weapon. His teams try to use intimidation, and at times, they do it well.

The problem with that as a coaching style is that when teams get past the intimidation, much like with bullies, there's not much left.

The same goes for this legal dispute. Rather than negotiate rationally, the Huggins camp chose to use sarcasm and attempted to intimidate the University by threatening to go public.

Didn't work.

You can agree or disagree with President Nancy Zimpher's desire to raise standards across the board at Cincinnati, but it's hard to argue with this: she engaged in a high-stakes poker game with Huggins and won. When the emotions of the day wear off, and people realize that he was essentially trying to blackmail the school, things may change somewhat.

Or they may not, and she may get run out of town.

That won't change the fact that she's very courageous. In fact, dumping Huggins may turn her into a hero among academics.

And at the end of the day, Huggins also has to face up to this: he has managed to intimidate a lot of men in basketball.

But two women who are new to their jobs at Cincinnati refused to back down. And that's the way it ended for old-school Bob Huggins.

Oldie,

There are many standards of measurement for academic programs, so what you say may be true. I cannot vouch for engineering, but my understanding is that DAAP is on a roll:

http://www.uc.edu/news/NR.asp?id=3443

About not liking Zimpher. I've come to the conclusion that she probably is a bitch. I don't care if she's a bitch if she's getting the job done.

Sorry to get all theoretical and such, but UC was in sore need of a cultural change in how it treats its customer base (students) and how it operates. Cultural change is enormously difficult, because as we all know, the unwritten rules are more important in how a company operates than the written rules.

Zimpher has had to rewrite the unwritten rules, so I can imagine that being a bitch may be a required thing.

The long and the short of it is that she was brought in to change the status quo. And as we all know this town is all about the status quo. I think Zimpher's doing great things, and for that reason most of us are going to hate her.

Quote:

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The one factor you did miss, was the move to the Big East. I do think Huggin's record(Not his police one) was a little bit of a help. Firing Huggins and an uncertain baksetball program, could of been a deal breaker. Let's face it, the foootball team does have much pull. LOL

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think that's a good point, but my argument against that is that Huggins' DUI and a host of other player problems (Legree's two citations, Roy Bright, Vincent Banks, etc) all came AFTER UC's entrance into the Big East. Not to mention this all happened just as the Pres was unveiling her academic plan.

I mean Huggins timing was so bonehead it's unbelievable. What's worse is that one of his arguments is (per the ESPN interview) "They should have fired me THEN!"

Riiiiight.

You know it's kind of the same thing with Kennedy whining he didn't make it into the tournament. He knew he wasn't a lock, but he *should* have been in.

Once you put your future into someone else's hands - which is what both Kennedy and Huggins did - don't come back and bitch when things don't go your way.

Take your pill and swallow it.

Huggins made a career of being Mr. Tough Guy. He wouldn't shake Gillen's hand because he "wasn't a phoney".

Well, what a phoney: Holding a press conference, telling everyone he's staying out of loyalty when behind the scenes he's saying he's not going to stay unless he gets an extension.

He frittered the summer away while we could have been recruiting, looking for a coach, etc.

Then to act like it was all a surprise, well, Huggy was just using his fans.

I don't know about you, but I don't like to be used.

LOL about being banned from bearcatliar.

Huggins has a fan base that will not let go. He revived a failing program, and let's face it, as long as they were winning, the basic fan could care less about graduation stats.

I really did not have a problem, at first, with him taking some of these hoodlums, and trying to make them basketball players or maybe a chance at a future. He had some failures and some sucesses. BUT once UC consistantly broke into the top ten, he could of been a bit more selective. He was never going to get the recruits of a Duke, but he could of got some that at least had half of a brain.

As for customer service, I can't say too much. Allison handled registering and stuff. I will say there was one fall semester she assumed Dad paid, and Dad was waiting for a bill in the mail.(they went all internet at that point). We missed the decline of insurance waiver by then. They were not going to budge...and said she had to take the insurance. I filed a protest, and told them that at that time she was going through therapy for her wrist and her treatments would definately exceed the premiums, and maybe we would have to revisit the idea of surgery. They dropped the insurance. LOL

Off the subject a little, but not a lot.

Tuition Increasing At University Of Cincinnati

POSTED: 7:32 am EST March 29, 2006
Email This Story | Print This Story
CINCINNATI -- University of Cincinnati trustees approved hikes in tuition and room-and-board, beginning this summer.
Trustees voted Tuesday to raise tuition for Ohio students at the university's main campus from $8,901 to $9,381, a jump of 5.4 percent. Tuition for out-of-state students will rise 5.5 percent, from $22,653 to $23,904.
Room-and-board rates, which very widely, will increase 5 percent. In addition, all students face a potential increase in the school's $99 technology fee, which will be set in May.
The tuition hike is smaller than past years. Last April, trustees approved a 6 percent increase for this school year, following hikes of 9.9 percent in each of the two prior years.

With hikes happening annually, a Saturday retreat was held for the first time this month to allow administrators and deans to discuss how another tuition increase would affect the university and students.
The talks will start earlier next year and involve students, said Monica Rimai, interim senior vice president of finance and operations.


Save those pennies and study hard!

Actually, greg, your post has nothing to do with any of the three options Oldie provided for us to discuss.

You should have started another thread.

Not only was I blacklisted from Bearcatlair, the offending article (posted above) and the subsequent profanities from dissenting posters...were all deleted.

Now...bearcatlair is part of Rivals.com, which hosts boards for all the schools in the biggest conferences. I can go anywhere else and post...but not on UC's website.

Funny, huh? The straw that broke the camel's back was that article.

I was typically persistent with my arguments, but it was nothing different than what I've posted here.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 29, 2006 02:42 PM: Message edited by: The Big Sexy ]</font>

Man, I should have gone to this last night. Sounds like it was a good time.


Last Updated: 5:30 am | Thursday, March 30, 2006
Huggins, Kennedy bid farewell
Say goodbye to fans before embarking on new jobs
BY DUSTIN DOW | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER
FAIRFIELD - The head basketball coaches of the University of Mississippi and Kansas State University met Wednesday night at Rick's Tavern & Grille for a farewell gathering.

Some 300-plus local residents, representing the rooting interests of a third school, the University of Cincinnati, came out to support the two coaches who no longer are affiliated with UC but whose emotional ties to Bearcats fans remain solid.

The current Cincinnati coach, Mick Cronin, wasn't there, but the two most recent UC coaches - Andy Kennedy, now of Mississippi, and Bob Huggins, now of Kansas State - said goodbye to a sampling of their legion of UC supporters.

And Huggins took the chance to take a final shot at Cincinnati president Nancy Zimpher, who led UC's effort to dissolve Huggins' contract with UC, which was mutually ended in August.

"If I coached the way she leads, we wouldn't win a game," Huggins said. He went on to take issue with Zimpher, who he said blamed a national perception on his program's graduation rate for affecting the university's reputation. Huggins credited UC for being a world-class institution but said, "You're telling me those 10 players brought this university down? Get a life."

Perhaps only in Cincinnati could the two former coaches remain just as popular with fans as the new coach, Cronin, a native Cincinnatian who has returned home to take over the Bearcats.

Huggins, 52, has not coached a game at Cincinnati since March 19, 2005, an NCAA Tournament loss to Kentucky. But for 16 years, until his negotiated departure from UC in August, his presence defined Cincinnati basketball.

"It's still very surreal," said Nancy Hugg, a UC booster who brought two sheet cakes to celebrate the event at Rick's Tavern, where Kennedy's radio show was held live throughout the season. "Having seen the whole thing develop when Huggs got the Kansas State job, it hit all of us hard."

"It's very strange," added Hugg, the booster. "I want to go buy Kansas State jerseys. I want to buy an Ole Miss jersey. I want to wear black and red. But it's been made very difficult. Bobby and Andy Kennedy will always be Bearcats."

Kennedy, 38, spent the past season endearing himself to UC fans as the "interim" head coach while a permanent replacement was sought for Huggins. Kennedy guided an undermanned UC team to a successful season and a berth in the National Invitation Tournament.

He became the popular choice among fans to get the head UC post. The administration chose Cronin, 34, instead, and Kennedy accepted the head-coaching job at Ole Miss.

Kennedy, though, told a different story about his meeting with Cincinnati athletic director Mike Thomas on March 20.

"He said in the newspapers it was a mutual agreement," Kennedy said. "I told him I didn't want the job."

Two brothers, Andy and Tony Bamberger, sat near the back of Rick's, both wearing Kansas State shirts. Andy said UC is still his favorite team, but Tony said because of the way things ended with Huggins and Kennedy, he's sworn allegiance to Kansas State and Ole Miss now.

"It's about respect," Tony Bamberger said. "For me, it's a new start, because my coach was always Huggins. Now I've got two new teams to cheer for. I'm done with UC."

Those fans who still cheer for UC, however, realized Wednesday that seeing a UC team without Huggins or Kennedy will be unusual at first.

"It's going to be hard for people to let go," said Ted Thompson, a booster from Liberty Township. "It's a very challenging situation for Mick. It's bad timing for him, like Mike Davis following Bob Knight. Time will tell."


Go Luck to Hugs and AK in their new jobs and ,of course, here's to the beginning of the Mick Cronin era at UC>

Look to the future of the program while always remembering the good times of the past and giving credit to those who did so much for UC's mens basketball, it's sports in general and the University itself. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 30, 2006 10:05 AM: Message edited by: cincygreg ]</font>

Did you happen to notice that Kennedy said, he "didn't want the job"?

The fact that Huggins is still around taking swipes even after he's been offered this opportunity at K State goes to show you: 1) He's not nearly as tough as he's made himself out to be, and 2) the extent to which he felt Zimpher zapped him.

You'd think after all this time the man would move on, especially since he's already employed by someone else. But he hasn't. He's still here.

Does anyone else see that big "L" on his forehead?

I don't think it's fair to take away from Huggins' accomplishments as UC coach. During the Tony Yates era, UC had degraded to the point where they were getting 3,000 fans per game at the Gardens to watch the likes of Brooklyn College. During the Huggins era, they were getting over 10,000 fans per game, were routinely on national television, routinely made the NCAA tournament, etc. No he didn't win any titles, but during Huggins' tenure at UC, other teams who did not win titles include Kansas, Villanova, Georgetown, Louisville, Indiana, Texas, Oklahoma, Purdue, Ohio State, Wake Forest, NC State, and about 300 others. UC is in the Big East solely because of the level reached by their basketball program, and the basketball program reached the level it did because of Bob Huggins.

That said...

If you have to ask if it's time for a change, then it probably is time for a change. I have no way of knowing if the attorney letters posted by Reason via the Duke site are authentic, but if they are, it is clear that Katz (and his client) were in the wrong, and you can tell by the whining. In this situation, I think a change was better for everyone- Huggins is at a place he wants to be, AK is at a place he wants to be, and Mick is at a place were he wants to be (and where he is wanted).

And, don't think for a second that, if UC and K-State make the tourney next year, the NCAA won't be sure to put them in the same bracket.

Quote:

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I have no way of knowing if the attorney letters posted by Reason via the Duke site are authentic, but if they are, it is clear that Katz (and his client) were in the wrong, and you can tell by the whining.

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, the Enquirer still has them posted online, but now you have to do a Google search to find them. Good thing you have me here. The link is as follows:

http://news.enquirer.com/assets/AB7501823.pdf

39 pages of fun reading. I'd say Dukebasketballreport.com does a good job of recapping what happened/

In response to Lew, I don't think anyone is taking away from what Huggins did, though many of us think he was overrated as bench coach.

He raised UC from the dead. He was solely responsible for making Conference USA a halfway respectable conference. He brought UC immeasurable visablility.

But I do think it's fair to take away from Huggins the person. The way he left (has he left? Will he ever leave?) says mountains about the man as a person.

The very back page of today's Wall Street Journal has a fairly lengthy article about UC and Huggins. I think they summarized what happend rather nicely.

My prediction is that while Huggins may win at K State, history will not treat the man well. Particularly when they figure out who he really is.

Duke sucks