I've been banned from AGFMB...

For my signature. Apparently holiday related siggys aren't allowed if they're Christian. Here's what I wrote to the mods...:

So now not even HOLIDAY related religious signatures are allowed? I won't name names, but other members have holiday related siggys on this board. I don't see you banning them. Easter is a national holiday. (Holiday holy-day) and it happens to be Christian. Sorry if Christian holidays offend you. Maybe I should just not mention Christian holidays at all in my siggy. Are non-Christian holidays ok? Like Passover, Halloween, or Arbor Day. I don't see you banning other members for Halloween related avatars. Of course, maybe it's just me who's not allowed to talk about religion or RELIGIOUS HOLDAYS.

This is in response to a PM from Joy. Please don't have her PM me anymore as I cannot respond directly to her. If you mods want to talk to me privately, do it with someone who I can reply to. Thanks.
Tra

[img]graemlins/grrr.gif[/img] [img]mad.gif[/img]

What did your siggy say?

Are you sure that's why they banned you, Tra? Because Prasnlrd had the same cross in her siggy and similair text (He is Risen)...

That's what they said. My siggy is the same as it was. It was banned for the religious content. The PM basically said that I was banned until my signature was back into line. In fact...those are the exact words "back into line."

Since Tra is taking this public, we will make a brief statement.

We have worked extensively with Tra regarding her signatures and what is allowed on our board, on several occasions. She was banned for defying what we had asked of her previously. Her Easter signature went beyond recognizing the holiday. She will be allowed back when she decides to comply with the guidelines which we have given her.

Also, my email address is public and available whenever Tra wants to contact me.

The Moderator Team

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 17, 2006 03:33 AM: Message edited by: djsnjones ]</font>

Isn't gossiping about AGF and the mods on any other forum also against the board rules?

Yes. And flaming, as is done in the thread, "Anger at AGFMB". We will also be dealing with that issue.

The Moderator Team (AGFMB)

To the best of my memory, Prasnlrd had the same cross and a smilair message (He is Risen) in her siggy for Easter. And there's been various Resurrection posts. Could the mods please tell us how far is too far for AGF siggies so we know where the boundries are set? I think everyone would appreciate this, if you guys could do it. [img]smile.gif[/img]

What's flaming?

If I can't express opinions (and I"m not trying to gossip, just express my opinion) about AGFMB or anything else on this board, then this board has failed it its purpose. Our purpose here is to express opinions openly and honestly. Now I think we can express our opinions as long as we don't disparage a person personally.
No one controls this board but (and I hate to say this, because it makes me sound high and mighty) me. I don't see a problem with this post. It is no different than venting about a problem with your friends. That's what I'm doing here.m I don't see this board as any different than having a conversation in real life... if we were to have conversations with our friends painting AGFMB in a non so positive light, would we be banned then, too?

I love Prsnlrd's siggy. I don't think either of us should have been in trouble for the siggy thing.

As fot he whole siggy thing, first they wanted me to change my signature so I didn't have any link to this board. Then I couldn't give directions to the board. Then I coudln't even mention the board. Then I put Bible verses there. They emailed me and told me not to have any religious signatures. I figured since other people were allowed to have holiday related signatures, though, I could make my siggy the way I wanted to until the holiday was over. Note my siggy has changed now.

As for flaming, I did not mean to insult anyone. I just wanted to vent and give my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Tra:
What's flaming?

If I can't express opinions (and I"m not trying to gossip, just express my opinion) about AGFMB or anything else on this board, then this board has failed it its purpose.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Flaming is posting something with the intent of inciting anger.

Of course you can express your opinions about AGF on this board. You just can't express them on this board and *also* expect to be allowed to post on AGF. And I'm pretty sure AGF mods would ban someone if they were bashing AGF in an IRL conversation if the mods were able to find out about it.

Isn't that what's good about this board? It allows you a place to talk about AG in an environment that's more suited to your preferences than AGF is. I have an AG board I enjoy reading and participate in frequently rather than AGF because it better suits my preferences. I don't expect AGF to change to suit me.

Then I was not flaming, I was venting.
I don't think mods of any board have any right to say what people do or do not do off that particular board.
Of course I don't expect AGF to change just to suit me. I don't really expect it to change much at all. I do, however, expect to be allowed to post my opinion on this board without having people threaten me with banning from another board. That doesn't seem fair. Of course, I suppose they have a right to do that since their board isn't a public board, but rather privately owned...but if they want to be "fair" as they've been saying all along about the religious stuff...
Yes, this board is great. Too bad more people aren't on it.

Maybe you should rethink this whole thing through, Tra. Can't you have a siggy without putting something religious in it? I know mine says "Making a Joyful Noise", but it's still secular enough to make it not sound preachy. Like your heart and lamb siggie...maybe you should stick to things like that?

I have stuck to that...except for during holidays. I figured since other people had religious holiday signatures, I could too.

I have agreed to abide by the rules of AGFMB in regards to the signature, even though I don't agree with the rules nor do I only post on that board. If I see other people being allowed to do something, though, I figure I would be allowed to do it too.

Is it possible that your siggy was perhaps a little more "in your face" then others? I know you have very strong feelings on faith, and I respect that about you, but it can be a problem sometimes when you're around people of all faiths. The AGF is a melting pot, so as it goes, "when in Rome..." lol

If we're really going by the "when in Rome" thing, everyone would allow Christian language and Christian sentiments to be posted because supposedly the majority religion in the country is Christian.

I do have very strong feelings on faith, and I don't see the problem with letting my signature...my own personal space...show that. I am not tryign to cause controversy, just share something perfect.

Still, I have changed my signature now that the holiday is over, though I don't and never will agree on those rules. I am still not allowed to post on AGFMB and I have not received any PM's from the mods about that. If they are going to ban me forever, I might as well change my signature to something more religious, so I'd really like to know what's going on with that.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I do have very strong feelings on faith, and I don't see the problem with letting my signature...my own personal space...show that. I am not tryign to cause controversy, just share something perfect. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Therein lies the issue...not everyone thinks Christianity is perfect. And in this country, and on the internet, people are allowed to have different opinions on things like religion. So what Christians see as "sharing the good news" some people find very offensive. I honestly think it's because they aren't comfortable in their own faith, but there seems to be a trend of peopel finding Christians even mentioning their faith offensive.

And on the AGF it's up to the Mods to make sure the place stays peaceful, and once you open the pandora's box on religion, all heck will break loose. I respect their decision based on what I've seen on other boards, but I do wish we could all be open without having to worry about starting WW3. Since in reality we can't, the mods need to do what they have to do to keep everything from going to hades in a handbasket.

Yes, people are allowed to have differing opinions...but shouldn't I be allowed to have mine? I understand the mods of AGFMB's decision, but I don't agree with it.

What you say makes sense about them not being comfortable in their own faith... I mean, it's like a part of them knows they're wrong and Christianity is right, so they don't want to hear it because they don't want to change.

I'll admit that I haven't been on many message boards, but is there a problem with everyone expressing their opinions on this board? I don't see one.`In fact, I think we have great fun expressing all of our differing opinions.

I've been unbanned! YAY! [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

Good for you, Tra! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Quote:

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Originally posted by Tra:

What you say makes sense about them not being comfortable in their own faith... I mean, it's like a part of them knows they're wrong and Christianity is right, so they don't want to hear it because they don't want to change.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">THAT'S why Religious sigs aren't allowed. Everybody thinks they are right! You think the Pagans, Atheists, etc are wrong and they think you are wrong. A LOT of people would say a Christian who doesn't want to hear about the joys of Satan just isn't strong enough in thier faith to look at it.. See where this is going?

I personally believe everyone is right and God made enoughs paths that people can find their own personal best way to him, but that is neither here nor there....

If they allowed Judeo-Christian sigs, then the Pagan ones have to be allowed. The same people who complian about not getting to use Christian sigs are the first ones to get upset if something Satanist, Pagan, or Atheist is posted. Because people on both sides continually get thier shorts in a twist, they'd rather just ban anything that MIGHT cause problems.

I got nasty PMs for having the skull and crossbones as my avatar, imagine the pandemonium if someone put the Sigil of Baphomet or something.

You're right, I would be upset if there were pagan signs on any board. That's why they're not allowed here. (See the rule about "not doing anything to endanger the spiritual health of the board members"). We can have different opinions adn different religions, but we cannot actively try to recruit anyone to any religion but Christianity. Only Christian or non-religious sigs are allowed here. That is because, no matter what I believe or what you believe or whoever believes there is an absolute TRUTH that is what GOD says is true. That is Christianity. That is the one, true, right religions and I don't see a problem with letting only that religion be shown on any board.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Tra:
That is Christianity. That is the one, true, right religions and I don't see a problem with letting only that religion be shown on any board.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, you do say you wish there was more activity on this board. That could be a problem with letting only Christianity be shown.

I don't mean people of other religions can't post here, they just can't try to convert anyone. I would rather this board go dead than have it injure anyone's spiritual health. Of course, I would prefer the board to be ACTIVE and keep everyone spiritually healthy.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Tra:
That is because, no matter what I believe or what you believe or whoever believes there is an absolute TRUTH that is what GOD says is true. That is Christianity. That is the one, true, right religions and I don't see a problem with letting only that religion be shown on any board.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can't prove that any more than anyone else can prove it. Truth can be proven. Anything else is faith. Faith isn't faith if it's proven. NO ONE can prove exactly what God wants.

All the arguments in the world to the contrary are nothing but circular logic.."the bible is true because God says so and God is real because the bible says so". The exact same arguments can be made with the same validity for the Quran, and any number of other religious works.

I believe it can be reasonably proven that there is a higher being of some kind , and atheism is a flawed logic. People saying they have the one truth or the whole story though **** me off too, because they don't. No one but God does.

You can't have it both ways. You can't complain about not being allowed to have your sig, and then complain about others expressing what they believe to be the truth. A simple quote or image isn't recruiting anyway. It's expression. No one who is firm in thier faith will be swayed by a simple display of someone's else convictions anyway.

And that's what it boils down to, belief. Until Jesus comes back and settles it, no one can claim authority to know what he wants.

I've posted on message boards where faith was not an issue , where religious sigs and avas awere allowed and no one fought over it. They had enough maturity and respect for other people not to tell them "you are wrong wrong wrong" no matter how much they "knew" it to themselves be true.

I would LOVE an uncensored AG board, a truely uncensored one. But IMO most of the AG community (both young and old) aren't mature enough to deal with others who think or believe differantly than they do. That isn't limited to religion either. Everything from modding and restoring dolls to how we raise our kids and who we voted for seems to spiral into rhetoric and bad feelings.

ROFL if you ever want to go in with me on a real uncensored AG board though let me know. I have expierance installing PERL based message board systems, configuring, and maintaining them. (Yup, I'm a techie "hired gun")

BTW Uncensored is a misnomer if you don't allow ANY non Christian displays. It's like "Seperate but Equal" It defys the definition. You can call your board whatever you want because it's your board, but it is inaccurate.

It's also a Christian board.

I guess I have faith. I am so sure that Christianity is the one right religion. The Bible says so, and I KNOW that the Bible is the absolute word of God.
What everyone else thinks the truth is is irrelevant. I really wish people would stop telling me that "others believe that their truth is the absolute truth and they think you are as wrong as you think they are wrong." I know that. They are still wrong. I could go around saying that I am a leprechaun, believe it with all my heart and without a doubt, and still be wrong. I know what I know, and I know that anyone who believes in anything other than God, Jesus, and the Bible is wrong. Period. You will tell me "what if YOU (meaning me) are that person who believes you're a leprechaun. What if you are the wrong one. No one can really know, right?" God gave me faith. I know. What GOD says is right is what is right. I may not know everything God says, but I do know that Christianity is the one right way. God said that much Himself.
You're right about one thing...some people won't believe until Jesus Himself comes down and tells them so.
Also, what you were saying about people who are strong in their faith being able to withstand a quote or a picture...true, but I'm not worried about those who are strong in their faith.

Now, my saying that Christianity is the one right religion adn that that is the only religion that is going to be endorsed on this board does not mean I don't want to hear your views. Just don't do anything that will harm the spiritual health of any of our members.

BTW--What is PERL?

You are not at this moment ban-worthy. You have not broken any of our rules. We are having a (in my opinion) fun and lively debate.

That Bible verse is true (everything in the Bible is) I don't know what Heaven is like. Yet, if we're looking at Bible verses let's look at Mark 16:16--Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 14:6-7 --Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

As for the "holier than thou" attitude most Christians are accused of...most Christians do not feel they are better than anyone else. We know that Jesus died for EVERYONE and that we are just as bad of sinners as anyone else. We made the right decision to accept God's free gift of eternal life and others have not. Do we deserve this gift? No. But it has been given to us.

God didn't tell anyone "What is right for them." He told them Mark 16:16 and John 14:6 and everything else in the Bible.
Psalm 5:4--You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil, with you the wicked cannot dwell.
We (humans) are all wicked. We CANNOT go to live with God unless we are cleansed of that wickedness. The only way to do that is to accept God's gift of cleansing...His Son Jesus Christ. He is the only one who can cleanse us because He is the only PERFECT human being.

As for strong faith. Really...why do we care what others believe? Let's look at Matthew 28:19-20--Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teachign them to obey everythin I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

As for exposure to multiple viewpoints...sure, but what if a recently faithful person came onto our board and lost his or her faith because of it? His faith barely had time to be established. I don't want him to be tested before his faith can be established. Neither do I want to have anything to do with driving anyone away from God.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 26, 2006 01:15 AM: Message edited by: Tra ]</font>

Quote:

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Originally posted by Tra:
Mark 16:16--Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 14:6-7 --Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For the Mark passage, where does it define what believing and baptism is?

For the John passage, how can you know that Jesus only showed himself in that one form?

How do you know other religions aren't believing in the same God you are, they're just calling things by different names?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Tra:
It's also a Christian board.


God gave me faith. I know. What GOD says is right is what is right. I may not know everything God says, but I do know that Christianity is the one right way. God said that much Himself.
You're right about one thing...some people won't believe until Jesus Himself comes down and tells them so.


Also, what you were saying about people who are strong in their faith being able to withstand a quote or a picture...true, but I'm not worried about those who are strong in their faith.

Now, my saying that Christianity is the one right religion adn that that is the only religion that is going to be endorsed on this board does not mean I don't want to hear your views. Just don't do anything that will harm the spiritual health of any of our members.

BTW--What is PERL?

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Christian board or not, it's not uncensored if it doesn't allow all viewpoints no matter how much they are disagreeed with. That's the basic principle of uncensored. Any board having ANY rule about what can or cannot be said is not uncensored..

Now why do we keep beinging up that argument? Because it's the truth.

John 8:14 (King James Version) Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

God may have told you what you know is true, but he's told lots of other people differant things are true. No one can prove what they know. They only know it for themselves. And if their faith was strong, they would only need to convince themselves. What others thought wouldn't be of consequence.

People aren't very spiritually healthy to begin with if they can't withstand a little criticism, introspection, or exposure to multiple viewpoints. most people think thier beliefs fall under the auspices of truth.

Faith grows through challenges. The person who is lazy in faith keeps thier faith but it is a small faith. Those who challenge it allow it to grow and emerge far stronger. I have nothing against Christians, I just can't agree with anyone who thinks he is better or holier than any of God's other children.

PERL is a programming language that the software the runs many message boards is written in.

You can ban me if you want, I really don't care. I came to this board on accident was was discusted by the unabashed arrogance.

No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
~1 John 2:23

Jesus is that Son.

It's been hard for me not to jump into this one, because I have been all over the religious battleground. I always knew in my heart I believed in God, but I lost contact with Jesus for almost a decade. Every day I am grateful that I came back to my true faith. But in those tentative times, almost six years of them, I would start to come back (to Christianity/Catholicism) and then I would jump off the path again. I will agree that when your faith is just begining you do need to treat it like an infant. I was so confused at a point in my life things like message boards did make me think differently of my faith.

HOWEVER...the greatest message of Christ was peace. He befriended the paupers and prostitutes, and He loved them as children of His father, even the sinners and non-believers.

Just a thought. [img]smile.gif[/img]

It's been hard for me not to jump into this one, because I have been all over the religious battleground. I always knew in my heart I believed in God, but I lost contact with Jesus for almost a decade. Every day I am grateful that I came back to my true faith. But in those tentative times, almost six years of them, I would start to come back (to Christianity/Catholicism) and then I would jump off the path again. I will agree that when your faith is just begining you do need to treat it like an infant. I was so confused at a point in my life things like message boards did make me think differently of my faith.

HOWEVER...the greatest message of Christ was peace. He befriended the paupers and prostitutes, and He loved them as children of His father, even the sinners and non-believers.

Just a thought. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Quote:

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Originally posted by Tra:
No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
~1 John 2:23

Jesus is that Son.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Lots of religions don't deny Jesus was a figure of some kind, so that pretty much only gets rid of hardline Pagans (alot of them also believe Jesus is a god) Satanists and Buddhists.

That quote says the people who have Jesus have the Father though, it doesn't stipulate about Jews and others who only worship God the father.

No one who denies the Son has the father...that's pretty specific. No one who denies that Jesus is the Son of God has God either. That includes everyone who believes that Jesus was a prophet or just some nice guy.

1 John 2:22-23-- "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknoledges the Son has the Father also."

Just to put it in context.