Ford to Cut Jobs

Ford is to cut 2,700 U.S. jobs. Possibly to cut up to 30-35% over next few years. Total job loss could be 10,000 or more.

but Dubya says the economy is a roarin'!!!

congratulations to all the republicans and most of the ill-informed voters...you picked a winner [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

There wasn't much to chose from devil. The best the dems could come up with to throw against him was Ole Flip Flop. What do ya expect??

You are so misinformed! You can't find enough people to work. In fact you annoy the crap out of me!!!!!!!

I can't think of any economic policies of the Bush administration that has hurt Ford. Maybe Honda , Nissan , Volvo , Volkswagon , Hyundai , Cadillac , Hummer , poor corporate decisions or a greedy CEO can be blamed . How many people on this board drive a non Ford vehicle? You all are to blame . I am to blame , I drive a GM product.

most of the cars nowa days are made mostly by machinery, i dont think it has anything to do with our economy

but the democrats do have all the anwsers!!! [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
*sarcasm*

really now...ive got a couple of pages of where dubya has flip-flopped himself, but many of the big "flip-flops" that you speak about kerry saying, werent actual flip-flops

and burrhead, prob not gonna lose any sleep if you dont like me

Didn't say anything about not liking, just you annoy me with your half-witted posts sometimes. Sorry if I offended.

This probally shouldnt go ont his thread but i am going to put it here. What kills me is people dissin Bush. he has had some mistakes but i have heard all kinds of people sayin we shouldnt have gone to iraq and blah blah blah. well if we wouldnt we probally by now have been blown away by now. i mean since bush hasnt found several wmd, then everyone puts the blame on him. We're better safe than sorry. plus bush put an end to a dictator. How would u fell if u committed a small crime and your punishment was some sort of torture. iraq just wasnt strong enough to throw sadamm out. Also, i know several "christians" who dont like bush. i dont get it. it was be republican and not have gay marrige or no abortians and if your vote democrate then there would be abortians and innocent lives who cant defend for themselves die. i am not sure everyone is up to date on how abortians go but thats a different topic. and also if u r a democrate u r for gay marrige. i really dont know how you could be a democrate and be a christain. but thats all i wanna say

GREAT post ndn10 !!! i think that was something that desperately needed to be said

thank ya

what's wrong with abortion and gay marriage?

read the bible. abortion is murder. in the 10 commmandment it say not to kill. i know somethin in the bible it says gay marriage is bad. i am going to do some research so i will post the scripture in s sec.

Romans 1;26 & 27
26 , For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature

27, and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their lust toward one another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was met

and like he said abortion is murder

thats the thing though, not everyone in the united states is christian, alot arent so for alot of people, aoborton might not be considered a sin or against their beliefs.....as for us being blown away by not invading iraq makes little sense. Iraq was an extremely weak country before the invasion, if they were that big of a threat then we probably wouldnt have occupied the whole country in a matter of weeks.

some scripture to back one1one up:
1st Corinthians 6:9-10
World English Bible
6:9 Or don`t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Don`t be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,:6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortioners, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Is this enough evidence or do you need more?

ABORTIANS IS MURDER. nothing else. our laws forbide murder so therefore, abortians should be aghainst the law also. theres no way that u can say that waiting until the baby is fully developed (9 monthes into the birthing cycle) and letting the baby get halfway into the birthing canal and BREAK ITS NECK isnt murder. if u can prove abortian isnt murder i will leave this bored forever never to post another reply again!

and we arnt at war with iraq for the hundreth time!! we are in a war on terrorism and their ARE terrorists in iraq

there are terrorists in every country stupid, maybe we should just invade them all and start world war 3. Nearly every muslim country in north africa has terrorists(lybia and morroco for sure), egypt has terrorists, iraq does, isreal does(they may be jews fighting against arabs but im sure there are some terrorists on our side there), there are terrorists in lebanon and in syria(Ever heard of hezbollah and hamas), there are terrorists in iran, afgahanistan, pakistan, north korea most likely, they are everywhere, so why dont you reevaluate that statement you made and come up with something that means something.

ok...just for argument's sake im going to totally ignore the fact that the whole basis of your argument assumes that even the people who aren't Christians have to abide by Christian morals

we will take a look at the Bible since you (and many other conservatives) like to bring that up in most topics...i guess somehow since im a democrat (i would say liberal instead of democrat though but thats just me) that im no longer a Christian...i guess i can conclude that since you are republican(conservative) that you are selfish, holier than thou and love to hunt

one thing that you need to realize is that you will never ehar a liberal supporter say that they want to kill babies...who the hell does??? the only thing that liberals suport is the right of the people involved to be able to CHOOSE whether or not they can do something...if you believe in the BIble then you will have to answer to your choices, but to take away the right to choose of a person who may or may not believe in Christianity goes against everything this country was founded for

lets take a look at some Bible verses:

"For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Luke 18:25

now...youd think that all the rich conservatives would be rushing to the nearest homeless shelter to throw away all their belonings to them since they're so enthralled in the Bible...maybe they seem to have skipped over this verse [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

"Or if a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty."? Leviticus 5:2

this one is for all you deer hunters out there...anyone know how to field dress a deer?...well according to this you really shouldnt know how and should never touch the carcas of the deer, since it is unclean

"Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat. Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you."? Leviticus 11:3-7

anyone up for some barbecue?? any of you who have ate pork are now deemed unclean according to this verse...also according to the verse before....anyone who has touched a dead pig (or a pigskin) is also unclean...how do all the football lovers feel about that one?

"These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you"? Leviticus 11:9-10

this one is for all that like crab, lobster, crawdads and the like

"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days."? Leviticus 12:2-5

this verse is interesting in that it is saying that men are more important than women...if a child is a boy then the mother is unclean for 7 days...if it's a girl then it's 2 weeks! this could anger some of the females on this board


NOW, for my big talking point...this next verse discusses whether or not an unborn child is a living object:

"If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. 23 But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."? Exodus 21:22-25

so if the unborn child is killed, he must pay a sum...which in these days if a man were to steal, tarnish, ruin a property he must pay a sum to the owner...so this is saying that an unborn child is property

but yet, if the woman is harmed then he must pay with his life

so lets recap:

unborn child = property
living woman = life

so in essence, abortion is not killing of a person, it is tarnishing a property, and since the woman is the ones who "owns" the fetus...she is giving up something she owns, also of which we have no right to deny her that choice

how are you going to tell a 13 year old rape victim that she HAS to have that child and be reminded of the pain she suffered every time she would look at that child?

how about if a father rapes his own daughter and the baby would be born with serious malformations and defects, should she still have that baby?

who are we to tell a woman what to do with her body? then explain it's because of a deity that she may or may not even believe in...i dont see any of the other religions forcing their ideals upon us...who says we are any better to be able to do it to them?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
our laws forbide murder so therefore, abortians should be aghainst the law also

[/ QUOTE ]

Smoking kills people, alcohol kills people, getting behind the wheel can kill people, so why aren't they against the law??

just tryin to ruffle some feathers in the post earlier, im for gay marriage tho, if they want to, let em..

as for abortion, i know it is wrong and whatnot, but i hope they never pass laws forbiding it. Usually if someone is wanting to have an abortion, they are not gonna be able to support the baby, so lets just let em have it, kill it theirselves, or better yet, let them grow up wanting and needing, then die from some sickness because their parent can't take care of em? Sure, let em suffer for X amount of years?
If the abortion is needed, get it

this is just one particular verse i wanted to emphasize about. </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
"For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Luke 18:25

[/ QUOTE ]

You have oviously miss read this verse or just not ahve understood it. what it is saying is for a rich man to use his money on objects that arent very christain like. such as drugs, alchahol, sex, ect.
also u have got those verses out of a study bible or some bible of the sort. those verses arent 100% accurate. study bibles and bibles simialr to them are people opinions on what a verse means. someone has went through and taken the original bible and read it and writtin down what they beilieve what it meant. these people arent just regualr people they r people such as preacher who know the bible inside out. there are several stories in the bible and verses that can be turned into different meaning. i am not going to go into detail because i could be here all nightr long. from what i understand about revelations, once everyone in the world have heard about the gospel, the lord is going to come back. and if u ahvent read revelations everyone need to. even if you r morman, atheist, it dont matter. that has to be the scariest thin i have ever read. i mean when the things that revelations mentioned happen i pray that the lord brings his people to heaven because it si going to be BAD. as i said earlier, i could spend all night talking about this but i am going to quit now. one more thing. when u r talking about BBQ, and pigs being unclean, the world has changed since the B.C. times. well i am going to stop this now since i have rambled on long enough

youre EXACTLY right...times HAVE changed since the B.C. times

so who is to say that gay rights aren't just another change...i mean the Bible does condone slavery and mass murder..and we all know that has changed

anyways...got those verses from the Bible on my desk...just a black one with Bible written on it...doesnt have a KJV or anything of that sort written on it so i wouldnt know whether your accusations of study Bible are true or not

you are right about another thing though....that the Bible is and has been interpreted in very different ways over the years and can still be done today...it is a great tool to base our own lives upon and how we should live day-to-day...but should not be used as a way to tell others how they should live...it is THEIR choice whether or not to be a Christian, which also makes it THEIR choice on Christian morals...some Christian morals are accepted internationally among everyone and every religion (i.e. killing, stealing, etc.) some are not and those that are not should not be subject to those that do not share the same religion...if Mormons were in the majority in this country, how many of you would like it for them to force their ideals upon you?

(Not to a particular person GCD22, thread comment)We spent up the surplus [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Ford is right where daddy Bush bailed them out the first time, I hate to see anybody out of work , but I guess, that is a nudder bunch of beer swillin' couch sittin Democrats.Somebody had'em figured that way. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] The "bailed out" remark is in refeerence to the first gas guzzler tax, that Bush or Reagan, one dropped and led up back to worse dependance on arab oil. Cut the speed limit, it will drop oil consumption RIGHT now , a drop from 70 to 55, resulted in about a 20% fuel saving the first time we played this game. And as far a Killing and innocent theme, the gent on the history channel the other night didn't seem to pleased with his own work. He claims what anybody can figure for their self- when we called in fire support in populated areas in "Nam it saved our lives, but sometimes we killed hundreds by mistake" , I never saw anybody tell that before, maybe I misunderstood what he said, but he was some upset with himself for ... well just living it seemed. It was the kids that got to him. Kinda makes ya wonder if maybe Bush ain't MAKIN terrorists, hell he is kinda gettin on my nerves, I'm in terror. Saw a figure of a billion Muslims in the world. Wonder why Bush never attends any kind of service for our fallen service men, won't even let the pics in the news?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
You have oviously miss read this verse or just not ahve understood it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The bible is interrepted differently by everyone who reads it. Even after Martin Luther translated it to Germanic languages from Latin(and some translation was lost), everyone tends to read it differently. Luther even translated it in an attempt for everyone to read it the way he did, yet society couldnt. That just goes to show you, the way you read something may be different from the way GC read it. Thats definitely the case in the verse above.

The Qu'ran is much the same way as well, I hear everyday how americans think that you get 72 virgins for dying during maryterdom(what suicide bombers think they are doing) but that is a bad translation from the arabic scripture. The Qu'ran actually says that it isnt supposed to be translated to any other language but i guess muslim scholars felt they had to promote their religion, especially in the west to compete against Farrahkan's NOI.

Anyway, my point is what one may read in the bible may totally be differently interrpeted to someone else. *thinks back to jefferson versus hamilton*

BINGO- that promotes a lot of problems, [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Well I don't have a lot to say that has not already been posted...and since apparently I am not a christian because I too am liberal *wink to GCD22* I guess I will not be allowed without mass criticism to say much....but here goes

The crusades were killings, people were sent out to kill in the name of God, much like the jihad today. So if killing is wrong, how can you kill in the name of him? Just something to ponder...

Also....this may not be the place for it but I have a question....if hypothetically ship loads of soldiers from another country came here with weapons etc etc, should we not fight back, cause that is what we are apparently expecting from the Iraqi people. Dubya is an idiot, but so are most politicians democratic or republican. This one happens to be playing with other people's lives. War on Terror was supposed to catch Osama (who from what I understand was trained by our CIA..hmmm go figure) so where the hell is Osama?

a very good possiblity of him being dead because he was on dialysis going back to 2001 before 9/11 even happend. I cant imagine him lasting too long in the mountains even with a dialysis machine, it would be very tough living conditions regardless. But on the other hand, Bush would need to keep the Bin Laden search going to get reelected. Hey, why dont we invade Germany since thats where the 9/11 terrorists came from(Hamburg). Oh wait, Germany doesnt have any oil. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Times have changed, and how can we really go by something that was written years and years ago. Sin is sin. If taking someones life is a sin, then having sex before marriage or committing adultery is an equal sin. Though im sure that doesnt stop ppl having sex, and it certainly doesnt stop some ppl from killing. Thats where laws come in, and thats where the Constitution comes in. Thats why we created it, and thats why we have freedom of religion and thats why we have freedom.

Just a thread comment, not a single poster. Which part of that was I having trouble with? I didn't like Bush cause of his Saudi/Bin Lauden oil biz ties/and some of his policies. I didn't think Iraq had WMD's , but it ain't my call, till after about 2000 deaths the president won't take responsibility for. Support the troops and country, go thru and search, start a free country, it is 80 per cent free ,right? Gee , it's getting kinda OLD and EXPENSIVE and this hasn't been my close family yet. And this lil' war and ensuing price increase has cut a great chunk from the auto industry , don't fool yourselves.

do i think saddam hussein is much better off out of power? YES

do i thik we were right for taking him out of power? YES

could we have done a MUCH better job of rallying more international help? YES

was it wrong to switch from saying the purpose of the "war" was Bin Laden then directly to a new person for an unknown reason? YES

ill support our troops...but not the way the cause was handled

i agree with most of the things u just said, but what could we have done to get alot more of international help?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
ill support our troops...but not the way the cause was handled

[/ QUOTE ]

so your saying you just support the troops half the time??
and if they arnt doing what YOU think is right then you wont support them?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
could we have done a MUCH better job of rallying more international help? YES


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree things could have been handled differently. But, if we had stalled longer for more support, what countries do you think would have supported the fight in Iraq more? What difference do you think it would have made? I am just asking your, and others, feelings on this, not attempting to prod or be a smart alec about it.

i do support our troops 100% all the time...but that doesnt mean i cant question the motives and the way things were handled and the decisions of the people in charge

and to answer 1instripes question...i dont believe ANY new nations wouldve helped...while bush was in office, his diplomatic relations are among the worst of any president to date

Ok, I will agree with you there. I just didn't see what difference it would make to wait and see how much more help we could get when there wouldn't be any.

You also will not get much help when the countries you are asking help from have thier hand in the cookie jar anyway.

I'll support the troops all the time - they don't have a choice. However , if you ain't noticed, good war making policy isn't REPEATING the SAME ACTION on a time schedule. It is time to change things. Check this, most of the pledged aid has been spent on the WAR, so now how are we gonna pay to rebuild the country? Let's skip the cash issue cause I know what the answer is gonna be -same as Reagan's- just change the policy to give the troops a fighting chance. Shoot first, and give them enough money to let the families live decent while the folks are gone and to fund VA care once they get back.

PS the above is just a thread comment not to Stripes personally- too early to start on the refs . [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] A lil poetry in case ya get bored-
The terrorism war begins to sag
The perpetrator we were meant to bag
Remains at large, and wartime fervor fades.
Then Bush and all his hawkish White House aides
drop sactions as the way to tame Iraq
And say, "Without delay we must attack&gt;"
If that war sags , there's still a backup plan.
It's war without delay against Iran.
And when the zest for that war, too, has faded?
That's easy: North Korea gets invaded.
But then it's hard to think of what to do.
Destroy Bahrain? Bomb France? Invade Peru?
Cal Trillin author of
Obliviously on He Sails I like bomb France muhsuf [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

gcdevil I am neither a democrat nor a republican, nor do I make it a habit to debate politics. But I have to tell you that if you think John Kerry is such a wonderful person but then call the people who voted for W. misinformed, I am worried about the quality of education at my beloved Tech.

A vote for Bush was more a vote AGAINST Kerry. I have no idea where Kerry stands on ANYTHING and I doubt very seriously that you do either. His views on any subject change depending on the audience.

He never did tell the truth about his service in Vietnam and after all these years probably never will.

He wanted a "more sensative" stance against terrorism, then denied making the statement. (I would have denied something that stupid too)

He voted for cuts in the defense budget and then blasted others for doing the same thing.

He gave a speach to an environmentalist group blasting SUV's and denied owning one. When pinned down by a reporter at another speach he admitted that his family actually owns several.

He said he threw his service medals over the White House walls and then admited that he didn't.

He testified about "war crimes" he witnessed in Vietnam and then admitted that he didn't see anything.

He was against the Patriot Act, then for it, then against it, then for it.......

Same thing with the Clean Air Bill

Same thing with just about everything. Mr. Kerry is a TRUE politician. HE goes any way the wind is blowing. I don't know of anything he has taken a position on and stood by it. But since you are obviously a die hard democrat, you, along with Ted (Pour me Another Drink) Kennedy can only down the man who has had to make more difficult decisions than any American President in history.

True, President Bush has made some bad decisions. He has done several things I don't agree with. But at least he does know how to make a decision and stand by it.

nice facts....and great post