Pledge of Alliance

Todays vote was our Pledge of Alliance is unconstituional. My one question why?
As i have read and learned due to the words under God we trust?
I for one am tired with these folks who point to religion for everything.
Folks come to some realization. This country was born on religion.
Yet now we claim as a religion to destory our own values?
Sorry if i post some controversy items, but it's time we forget the crap and get back on track.
If we can't pledge allegiance to our own country. There is something very wrong with this country.

I pray for people like this. This is all part of a counter movement in this country. "Anything popular or right I'm going to rebel against." What is wrong with following the Lord and doing what he asks? If values and morals are not cool, then I guess I'll have to be an outsider. The reward will be worth it

People always need something to complain about. God will take care of people that make complaints about things that bring glory to His name. I for one will continue to pledge allegiance to my country and that will include the words "under God" because without him our country would be in shambles.

do schools still do the pledge in the morning?

Yes we do first thing in the morning. I was wondering what this ruling will mean for us.

Does this ruling just mean it can't be "required"? I just don't understand why taxpayer money needs to be spent fighting something that someone could just get a religious exemption to doing. If that man didn't want his child to say it then he should have told him to just keep his mouth shut and let the others practice THEIR freedom of religion by reciting it!! I had a guy who was an atheist in my choir class and he simply did not participate in prayer before concerts, but he did not try to stop others from doing so. I'm tired of MY rights being infringed upon.

Liberals is the only thing that comes to my mind, this makes me sick...

LIberals....they'll be stacked high in Hell. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
LIberals....they'll be stacked high in Hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

And Conservatives won't be stacked right in with them? Please...so I vote for Bush I go to Heaven? I see now...

Im not saying that at all...But the facts are that liberals are the ones pushing for things like this, plain and simple.

The thing about it is...there are people that have different religions in this country and even though it sucks, having the Pledge of Alligance in schools when people are required to say it is almost a breach of the rights that people have in this country. I mean I know most people were are of the same religion, but what if you believed in a different religion and you were force to do something like the Pledge of Alligance? This is one of the cases where you actually have to put yourself in someone else's shoes and say...what would I do? The US is based on freedoms and you have to realize that that means different things to different people....which inclues the freedom to choose which religion you affiliate yourself with.

I dont think schools actually FORCE someone to say the pledge.

I dont see the pledge as something relegious necessarily... I take as more of a pride type of thing for our country.

And no this isn't intended to anyone. Just my own concerns with what we are allowing to happen to our own country.

My only problem is we change to fit everyone else? Why. This is America.
Do we go to other countries and change their whole belief structure. I don't think even in Iraq we have kept them from worshipping, or from even trying to frame their own constitution. Yet we attack ours and our bill of rights?
When you cannot pledge allegiance to your own country because it has the word God in it?
I think it's time some ask what country is this again?
To me if a person wants to add their own personal idea of God or not say it all, don't make the other kids who see it as patriotic ashamed or not able to believe in their own country.
Problem now is we have taken everything about this country and thrown it away.
I don't want to offend anyone. But i think this catering to everyone else and not to the voice of the American people has gotten out of hand. What country is this and who should have a say?
If one person decides or 3-4 decide they don't like something and they got money to fight it, well it's good riddens?
Is that a democracy in action? I don't think so. My understanding was our country was set up for the majority to make the decisions.
Well one thing i have learned the majority lately, is we the American people are not the majority no more or we don't have no voice.
Be anti anything and you will have a following. I don't get it. All i can understand is the moral decay and to much of trying to be politically correct in a non-politcally correct world.
I have to say i have found a listening to views WXBQ does quite interesting. Pro or con they let the person have their opinon. And this subject was on there yesterday. The majority of people, well their fed up with all the having to always be poltically correct, or we change to accomadate the few.
Why not just burn the constitution and the bill of rights and let every one do what they want? Were basically slowly doing away with both anyway or finding loopholes in them, to make things how people want them.
So why not make it easier and just burn both and say make your own laws and system.
Then if your system offends that of another you can go to court for it and visa versa. Wonder how great that would work.
One nation under many constitutions in every God ever mentioned or belief. Hey i think im onto something. Nah just being sarcastic, but there has to be a limit.

When the principal comes over the intercom and say please stand for the pledge of alligance and everyone in the class stands. When you are the minority in the class, let's say a Jahovah's Witness....it's hard for a child to refuse to do something that all the other kids do...maybe it would be hard for a child to bring something like their religion up if the teacher didn't know these things.
I'm not say that children are being physically forced to participate in the pleadge of alligance, I'm saying that people should be sensitive in the fact that there are other types of religions that people believe in this country.
And yes a lot of people do take the pledge as a pride type of thing for the country, which I even feel that way to a certain extent, but I am sensitive to the fact that some people do not believe in God or practice a different religion and believe that the freedoms that we have in this country should require that every religion should be represented in schools if the pledge is to remain.

Well let's flip it. What if a child wanted to stand up and do the Pledge of Allegiance every morning, but because its unconstitutional s/he feels embarrassed or uncomfortable? Is it any more fair to that child wanting to do it to be left out than the child who does not want to do it sitting down while others do? You just can't win. It's talking in circles and no one every wins.

Brilliant post LPD.

One of the best I seen took the words right out of my mouth!

This is why this is such a great debate.
Morally wrong other beliefs
or
Prevent "God" in schools

It's easier to eliminate one issue than try and fix it...there are so many different ways to argue this issue...

My big thing is that I am allowed to believe what I believe and I think other people should be allowed to believe what they believe. I don't think ANYONE has the right to say one religion is right or wrong, but that's just me...I know a lot of religious people think that what they believe is RIGHT but I don't think it's my place to judge what someone else believes and say if it's right or wrong. I just want to have the right to believe what I do and I want everyone else to have the right to believe what they do.

This is not a religious issue in my mind whatsoever. Give me a friggin break. Every American with even the smallest patriotic bone in there body should be outraged about this. The pledge is a symbol of our countries pride and heritage (to me anyways and to most I Americans I hope) not a prayer to God or anything. Its a sign of repspect to our forefathers and our veterans for allowing us to have the privleges of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" in this country.

I know growing up and going to school as a kid that no one had problem with it. Well it seem that away anyways. I mean is this such I big issue now? Why is it in the new millium (sp) that everybody has problem with what this country was founded on. I think people today are to thin skinned and are easly offended. I think the goverment is trying to please to everybody, but in that process one group of people is getting short change. Then you try to fix their problem and someone else gets short changed. Know what I mean. But it's like that old saying "you can't please everybody".

"one nation under GOD"

that's why this is even a debatable topic.

I understand that, but thats just does not have anything to do with the pledge in my eyes.

When was it wrote Greencrest. I tell ya way before anybody on this forum so why change it now because they are wanting to take god away from us that's why!

We are definately on the same page my man...

The men who framed our constitution were not saints. Yet they seen that we needed something to keep the nation together. A set standard to go by. So they drafted one. Something almost every nation has. And most states in the US have their own in some ways constitution or as Virginia has their code of VA.
I don't see changing this country no more to keep fitting people. I think any more changes to our constitition or the bill of rights should become a democratic vote. Not a vote passed down by some judge under pressure from rich anti-regligious people.
I bet half don't even know the man who pursued this. Well he got defeated the first time. He believes there is no God. So being defeated he goes out and comes back with 3-4 other families and gets them to file the suit this time.
Let me ask a question.
Your house. Would you let just anyone come into it, and you would change everything you do just for them? You might for awhile, then after awhile you'd get tired and say. Ok that is enough. Time for a few changes.
Well we have changed and changed till we no longer have the morals of the country i loved growing up. When you have your own language as the second national language no one see's a problem? We let more people into this great land to take jobs from people here than any other country in the world and why, so they can live the American dream.
Well Martin Luther said he had a dream, but i don't think it was the dream were seeing today.
Sorry for being so up front and frank. But it's time we begin to say no to some of this stuff. A country with no pride is a country doomed. And were slowly taking away our pride and our patriotism from our own country. Or letting a few do it for the wrong reasons.
What's wrong with the words God in the pledge of alliance? We have many religions here, we dont' attack them for their beliefs.
And i'll say this. It's time for one President or one judge to stand up and say no this is American and i will not fold to your pressure. Our constitution as i said was written by men who seen we needed a standard, no they were saints, but they also knew what they come from. A monarchy ruled by one person. Well it seems as if we are letting that happen again. Except not just one but a few. Yet we go off and fight wars to try to let others have freedoms, when here in our country we are letting those same freedoms be taken slowly away? Why are those men and women fighting and dying for in other countries?
Just my thoughts on the pledge.

I understand that, but maybe the reason you don't feel that way is because in the Pledge they are talking about your GOD...
What about all the other religions that are practiced that the Pledge doesn't mention? That one word (GOD) causes the Pledge and the debate about it being Constitutional of being in schools to actually be a debatable subject.
The United States practices the Freedoms that we as Americans have to practice the religion we choose to practice or to practice no religion at all, among other things of course like the freedom of speech, etc. That is why the Pledge is taken as being religious based or at least having a part of religions that worship GOD.

I understand your argument completely....

I agree in some ways Mercury.

But when do you take an alliance to the country you live in?
When your forced to war? And that only? Or what about all the people who are not originial American citizens by birth?
Are they now American citizens because they take a test and pass it and take an oath? And what does that oath say? I've heard it before but can't remember it.
Im sure a few who helped attack the same country they were in took that oath. Did they take it to heart? No. If they had would they of took place in 9/11.
Most who helped in that and other attacks on our country were what Americans?
Hmm. I find that odd. I say im an American but i help distory it. Yet i took an oath.
Oh well just another debate that some will say defies religious believes.
All i will add is the country song. YOU HAVE TO STAND FOR SOMETHING OR YOU WILL FALL FOR ANYTHING.
Seems falling for anything seem more politically correct.
Go to Iraq and tell them they can't protest or say what they want. Anyone. See what you get. A bullet to the head front or back.
Oh well so much for politically correct. I guess the next is banning the Star Spangled Banner being played before a sports game?

Basically as i see it now. We can say we are loyal to anything. If i live in another country i can pledge allegiance to their country if they have a pledge, but that means nothing, should my believes change i can attack them for what i believe later? Interesting concept. I think we may of found our way to infiltrate other countries. Just pledge our alliance to them then attack them from within. Dang that sounds awful familiar. But oh well if it works. Maybe we can take out Iraq from within, China and North Korea.

The thing about it is...diversity of religious beliefs is growing in the US. Not even including people that have moved to the US from a foreign country but actual full blooded US citizens. People are practicing so many different religions it's insane. People who are Mormons, Jahovah's Witnesses, Atheists, and Agnostics may have a problem with the Pledge. That is why this is such a debatable topic, because these aren't foreigners, these are Americans and the US gives people to right to choose which religion they want to associate themselves with without discrimination. So, this is not an issue about foreign people coming into the US and trying to change it, this is an issue about giving people the right to practice whatever religion they want without discrimination.

I agree Mercury with what your saying. But without an alliance is there a true connection. I don't have to believe in one person's God, to pledge my allegiance to the U.S.
So is taking the word God out of the pledge or stopping it all together gonna help.
It to me is not as much about religion as it is to your nation. That i cannot take away from our kids.
Those who grew up here or become citizens out of loyality and wanting a better life.

Here's my take on it...If you don't like the Pledge don't say it but let those that do say it when they want to...The problem is were letting to many of these foreigners or idiots come here and run our country...Another thing that bugs me is we all might as well get ready to learn to speak spanish because before long it will be our national language...Here's my take on that if you can't speak ENGLISH don't come here.

I agree with what you are saying too. I truly don't think that every single person will be happy with anything that is done but I guess it's just the effort to make school as something that everyone is comfortable at, for the sake of learning. It's hard to see my past school experience without the Pledge, but the US is becoming more diverse and the US has always been the land of opportunity that promised no discrimination towards the believes of others, which makes it hard to refuse to try and make people feel more comfortable, because I know if I practiced a religion that wasn't the norm it would be hard to deal with discrimination because it was seem like people would be saying my views are wrong....and I'm not the person so say what people believe is right or wrong.