what is terrorism as defined by you?
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what is terrorism as defined by you?
premeditated, political attack on an unsuspecting country, it is used as a method to get their beliefs to a wide audience.
like Hiroshima?
lol..good point.
Nagasaki?
When we did Hiroshima and Nagasaki we were in a war. Now on 9/11 we werent in a war so that terrorism. If you are in a war then its not terrorism and if you are not in a war it is. A good example would have to be Pearl Harbor.
There were various other ways to ending the war with Japan without dropping the atomic bomb. The bombs killed thousands of harmless, innocent victims. Just like 9/11 did. So that I would consider terrorism. Everyone thinks, just because America is the "world leader" we cant be terrorists.
didnt the perpetrators of 9/11 think they were in a Holy War?
Only a liberal could come up with a response like that. They were warned, and by the way they invaded us, remember a little thing called Pearl Harbor, friggin liberals, find a way to poke your finger in the eye of the very country that protects your ass. By the way, quite a few innnocent lives were lost due to the fact that Japan started this war, I doubt very seriously that any soldier wanted to die before he or she had the chance to enjoy the freedoms that you do today.
Red blooded American here, proud to say it and proud of the country in which I live, so any future crap that is about to be spouted, stick it in your liberal arse.
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They were warned
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weren't we warned about 9/11??
if you think about it every war is in some way an act of terrorism. now having said that I want to also say that the goal of the American military is not to inflict harm on innocent individuals, but the 9-11 act was to inflict harm and instill terror on all US citizens.
There are rumors that went around after it happened that they knew that we were going to get attacked but that is just anti-bush people making up rumors.
haha is it??
and by the way gcdevil22 I knew where you were going with this post, I'm just wondering what your motive is behind this. If you are trying to say that America is the root of all evil, and we are just as bad as Al Queida, then get out of the US, if you think it is so bad to be associated with the US. But if you meant it to start a debate then that's cool it's been a while since this board has had something legitimate to talk about.
nope just a debate...got a paper on Hiroshima and what Kant and Mill would say about it and i figured itd be a good topic of discussion on here
Anti-Bush people making up rumors? Ha!Ha1 It is facts that we were warned about it. Wake up people.
And as for Dukefan, man you keep looking more and more like a jackass with every post.
we did know it was going to happen, we didn't know the exact date, or the other intel, but we did know. All branches of law enforcement knew bits and pieces and had they communicated better they could have put two and two togeather.
if only there was a central person that all had to report to with their information...then maybe like he could put it all together and we'd have all the right information
I agree, but in defense of the Law Enforcement agencies they are trying to correct their mistakes. It is just a shame it takes something like 9-11 to show them what they were doing wrong.
Many police departments in the US are going to a Community Policing model, they hope it will regain some trust, and bring the departments closer to its citizens. If the citizens trust the police they think citizens will keep the police informed of criminal activity.
Terrorism is the use of fear as a weapon. The A-bomb was dropped after the casualty estimates were put above the quarter million mark, the Japs trained EVERYBODY, no exceptions so the "innocent" argument gets thin fast. The strike at NY has cost the United States BIG bucks in increased security and changed our style of life somewhat, which is what the purpose was. To bring down the free life, and the "Great Satan" ,on the other hand one of the final steps to the re-establishment of a homeland for the Jews was the bombing of a British hotel, perhaps the first use of "terror" I can find.
wow...i didnt know the japanese trained little 8 and 9 year old girls and babies in their army...shew, that gives me another perspective
[img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]Not the ones too young to speak or walk.....study more...or somewhere else. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
you have got to be kidding me, Hiroshima and Nagasaki are nothing like 9/11... Japan had been warned several times if they did not surrender what would happen, and you cannot possibly tell me they didnt get whats coming to them after Pearl Harbor,(in which we were a neutral country,not even involved), the Bataan Death March, and how they treated POW's. Yes many citizens were killed, which is unfortunate, however even with the number that was killed, those 2 bombs stopped an ongoing war and ultimately saved thousands and thousand of more lifes....if there is 1 thing to blaim America in being unjust during WWII, is its treatment of Japanese-American citizens....not its retaliation against a deserving country. If it (or Germany for that matter) had won the race of creating the bomb, do you think they would of hesitated for 1 second to drop them on us...w/out warning??
dont we get all kinds of videos form Osama Bin Laden wanting us to step down or he will attack us??
yeah, but thats comeletely different! he is not giving us an ultimative. He attacked us because he didnt like us, because quite simply he doesnt like the American way of life and what it represents. Not to end a war!! To start one!....thats how its different..
so what makes something terrorism is when it happens? not the act itself?
It's how and why it was done.
Here is an excerpt from President Truman's diary . This may cause the bombings to be viewed differently.
"We have discovered the most terrible bomb in the history of the world. It may be the fire destruction prophesied in the Euphrates Valley Era, after Noah and his fabulous Ark.
Anyway we "think" we have found the way to cause a disintegration of the atom. An experiment in the New Mexico desert was startling - to put it mildly. Thirteen pounds of the explosive caused the complete disintegration of a steel tower 60 feet high, created a crater 6 feet deep and 1,200 feet in diameter, knocked over a steel tower 1/2 mile away and knocked men down 10,000 yards away. The explosion was visible for more than 200 miles and audible for 40 miles and more.
This weapon is to be used against Japan between now and August 10th. I have told the Sec. of War, Mr. Stimson, to use it so that military objectives and soldiers and sailors are the target and not women and children. Even if the Japs are savages, ruthless, merciless and fanatic, we as the leader of the world for the common welfare cannot drop that terrible bomb on the old capital or the new.
He and I are in accord. The target will be a purely military one and we will issue a warning statement asking the Japs to surrender and save lives. I'm sure they will not do that, but we will have given them the chance. It is certainly a good thing for the world that Hitler's crowd or Stalin's did not discover this atomic bomb. It seems to be the most terrible thing ever discovered, but it can be made the most useful...
yeah...thank goodness we didnt use a bomb whose effects lasts for years giving many cancer and raditation problems..not to mention the whole "blast" thing that killed a couple people
i see where your coming from, and understand what you mean... So basically, yeah , I beieve how an attack is carried out does not make it a terrorist action. (if that were the case every unexpected attack, in which citizens were involved, in history would be a terrorist attack) ...so its more the background and reasons for the attack..
I think all that gcdevil22 is doing is trying to use the forum as debate class practice, so have at it.
Some pretty interesting questions. Im curious where your stand is on this. You havent really answered any of the question you are asking yourself. Ive got an idea of what some of your answers are, but Im hoping you will surprise me.
well considering every Japanese person located in those areas were warned by the US before the bombs were dropped, I don`t see how you can possibly try and piece that together with 9/11. So since we were warned about that then why did it come as such a schock to everyone?? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
i dont think we are terrorists...just an interesting question...form the definition i have been given of terrorism when at first glance it looked a lot like what we were doing
i think the main thing that seperates the 2 are who the target is...we didnt target civilians, but they were a casualty, the "terrorists" purposefully pick ou and target civilians
but i also dont think we are as "innocent" and "big brotherish" as we want the public to believe either
You've surprised me slightly. You have raised some interesting questions. Pretty neat little thread you've got going here.
gcdevil22 actually has some good ideas when some of the more conservative posters amongst us don't automatically swat away his thoughts on the wars we've waged and terrorism internationally, and dismiss them as liberal slander against God's chosen president. A lot of people would be done a lot of good if they could see their hand past their face when it comes to the way the US is viewed by others internationally. He's brought up some good questions here.
Basically, the Japanese can rationalize Pearl Harbor just the same as we can rationalize Hiroshima. Iraq & Saddam could have rationalized invading Kuwait just as the US can rationalize invading Iraq. Germany can rationalize the actions of Hitler just the same as the Soviets can rationalize the actions of Stalin. Either way...it depends on what side of the fence you're on as to what you see is right or wrong. It's all relative. Us as Americans may think the American Revolution was needed and necessary, while at the same time thinking the French Revolution was too violent and bloody, while also being unnecessary.
It's all about frame of reference. These "jihadists" feel they're doing the work of Allah, just the same way that Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and the rest of the extremist religious right feel they're doing the work of God. There are people on this planet that feel George Bush is evil just as we feel that Osama Bin Laden is evil. It's important to keep these things in mind when trying to understand the situations we are faced with in terms of terrorism and international relations. If we would talk and understand more instead of going in with guns blazing as has become the American way, according to the international opinion of our country. We must be aware of this.
I'd say it would have to be the constant fear in the back of your mind, when will it happen and how.
Do i feel safe and let my guard down today, or is it the day i die for no reason, or my family.
Will it be a bomb, a suicide bomber, or just a person with a ak 47.
Will my kids make it through the day, will i make it through the day.
Terrorism is being attacked without a known reason, with innocent people dying so others can say they got revenge.
They set about a lury feeling in everyone's mind. How safe am i today?
It's a constant state of fear, not talked about, not seen outwardly but always there.
That is no way to live.
Has the US done it, i don't know. Our attack on Japan was to end the war, one because Japan could of fought on longer, and the US did not want to have so many deaths, two Japan was told about the bombs, more than what the US got at Pearl Harbor.
Has any other nations done it?
Well i remember watching as kids in day care died, mom and dad's died. Families lost alot as two planes crashed into two buildings and forever changed a country once again into a country that can no longer let it's guard down.
Terrorism just a constant state of fear, of when, why, where and for what reason.
So one or two who lead many, can justify their belief and their wishes, and assert their power and ideaology, and what they think about things and how they should be run.
gcdevil has just made us all stop and think a little bit which I really like. Instead of just swinging away with left and right punches, it just has made you think and analyze the question no matter your political ideologies.
Exactly greencrest...and that's how it should be. Lots of times, anyone with a liberal idea around here can't get anyone to scale past all of their conservative ideologies to even listen to a liberal idea that may make perfect sense. Lots and lots of closed-minded people all over the place...higher in population around here.
Well the thing about it is gcdevil didnt just spit out a left wing idea, he just raised some interesting questions which is kind of out of the ordinary for him. Something I might need to look into doing.
I think it's somewhat of a liberal idea...saying that not all terrorism is limited to Muslim extremists, especially in today's international environment. I'm not disagreeing or arguing greencrest...I just think it's an idea that normally wouldn't be well accepted on this board...and people should take this under consideration.