What will we sell'em next?

Can we import terror now?-
February, 2006: When the United States was attacked on 9/11 2001, the majority of funding for that terrorist operation came from banks located in the United Arab Emirates (UAE).

In exposing what is being called a "secretive deal", the White House is under fire for approving a $6.8 billion transaction that gives Dubai Ports World, of the United Arab Emirates (UAE), majority control over operations at six major U.S. ports. The Treasury Department's Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States ultimately approved the sale, stating that all sitting members found no problems with the sale, even after reviewing information from U.S. intelligence agencies.

The sale itself was pending between Dubai Ports World (UAE), and the Peninsula and Oriental Navigation Company of London (UK), and the completion of this transaction would cause the UAE-controlled company to rank third-largest of world marine terminal operators.

Congress is calling this big-business deal into question, and is pushing for hearings on this matter. Similarly, Congress was previously able to halt business transactions in the 1990s which would have given the Communist Chinese control of Port Long Beach (CA).

The idea that a single U.S. port of call would be controlled by a country which harbors support for the very enemies who wish to destroy us is, at best, unwise. To have this situation repeated in Baltimore, Miami, New Jersey, New York, New Orleans, and Philadelphia is nothing short of unfathomable.

And a new view point on Iran...
Iran isn't interested in winning a war with the west since they know this isn't possible. But they do want to start and wage a war against all non-Muslims simply because they believe it is their destiny to do so. The Iranian intellectuals honestly believe that they are following the will of Allah and their destiny is to bring about the last great conflict of the human race. But they have to do it in such a fashion that there is no return from it once started. That all mankind suffers.

Maybe someone will cut this off-
- Two Republican governors on Monday questioned a Bush administration decision allowing an Arab-owned company to operate six major U. S. ports, saying they may try to cancel lease arrangements at ports in their states.
Give all to the terrorists george, (perhaps he is afraid Cheney will shoot him also) [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]port story

Iran is a Islamic fundamentalist nation, and they believe that Muhammad is the true prophet of Allah. Their Quran is the absolute truth--it supercedes the Bible. We need to recognize that the Islamic terrorists are not FANATCIS--but DEVOUT FOLLOWERS OF MOUHAMMAD who are following his example and doing what their bible teaches them to do. They believe that Islam can't be ruled by others but Allah's law must stand above human law. They believe that the only way the West can have peace is the West must accept to be govern by Islam. We want allow that to happen. You can only guess at what will happen in the future because Islam follows a theology of triumphalism--"the dominance of one's nation, ideology, or religious creed over another." To a Muslim, it is Allah's will for Islam to rule the world. The world Islam does not mean peace--it means SUBMISSION. Their objective is for everyone to be submission to them.

I don't have to guess- I'm just sorta wondering what happened to the prez that was gonna save us from the terrorists. Went to Iraq to start a war, now he is gonna approve a deal that lets the Arabs clamp down on 6 major east coast ports? If this goes thru the price of gas has just started, and I wouldn't want to see how things could be eased in on the sly. And ,yes the folks in Iran are fanatics, willing to set the stage by trying to destroy another nation, starting the conflict any way they can. There is only way to deal with a person that cannot be reasoned with...If they are determined that one of must die...

In the end I don't believe that he will approve. The big deal here is that they would have info about our ports. I believe that this would be the big thing. I don't believe they should have that info.

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I don't have to guess- I'm just sorta wondering what happened to the prez that was gonna save us from the terrorists. Went to Iraq to start a war, now he is gonna approve a deal that lets the Arabs clamp down on 6 major east coast ports? If this goes thru the price of gas has just started, and I wouldn't want to see how things could be eased in on the sly. And ,yes the folks in Iran are fanatics, willing to set the stage by trying to destroy another nation, starting the conflict any way they can. There is only way to deal with a person that cannot be reasoned with...If they are determined that one of must die...

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The real war is the coming nuclear countdown between Iran and Israel. We are on a countdown to crisis. The coming showdown with Iran is a certainty. Israel and America must confront Iran's nuclear ability and willingness to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons. For Israel to wait is to risk committing suicide. What would a confrontation with the Middle East look like for us? What would happen if we entered the battle on the side of Israel?

I'm not fooling anyone when I say that I am not a big fan of the Bush administration...But this is unbelievable!

What is our government doing. As the right-wing country singer Darrell Worley asked, "Have you forgotten," have they forgotten?

Regardless of forgetting, this mid-term election could be unforgettable for the Republicans come November. Issue after issue (their fault, not Democrats) pile up.\

Iraq-No WMD's
Katrina
Tom Delay/Karl Rove/Dick Cheney
Jack Abranoff
8 trillion dollar deficit. 8 trillion???
Bill Frist
"Blaze Orange" (new power ranger color [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

Mentioning that debt again. Remember when the Republicans were FOR fiscal responsiblity? I thought that was a fundamental Republican belief. I know that it is important to me. One of the reasons I am more moderate than some Democrats

Technically we have already entered the battle on the side of Israel...and I agree strongly with your above statements about the intent of the Islamic world. Sounds like you have done quite a bit of research and not falling for the propaganda about Islam being a peaceful and tolerant religion.

I just hope we are able to stay on the side of Israel. Israel holds the key to the Middle East and world peace.

"Iraq-No WMD's
Katrina
Tom Delay/Karl Rove/Dick Cheney
Jack Abranoff
8 trillion dollar deficit. 8 trillion???
Bill Frist
"Blaze Orange" (new power ranger color)"

Just rephrase the Iraq deal by saying they didn't "find" the WMD's...Iraq definitely had them, no question. Saddam's chief military advisor has stated that time and time again. He says the WMD's were moved to Syria via 747 less than a month before the war broke out.

Katrina was more of a FEMA disaster than a Bush administration disaster. With a natural disaster of that magnitude it would have happened to any president. They just were not ready.

The Tom Delay thing is still up in the air.

Jack Abramoff also made contributions to democrats so its kinda difficult to single that out as a bad deal for republicans.

Whats the problem with Bill Frist? Maybe I'm not up to date on the news with him.

I too am at odds with the administration on the issue of the budget deficit. I disagreed at the time with the tax cuts while we were going into a war which was going to cost so much. But with the economy growing at such a rapid rate it looks like the deficit will be short lived. Projections are it will be cut in half by 2009.

I dont really know where the 8 trillion number came from??

Houndman nailed it. Iran and Isreal. Muslims and Jews. Iraq would have attacked Isreal. Iran will as well. Its not republican and democrat, its holy war that does not truly involve us. We are involved because we are such staunch allies with Isreal. We can help build up any nation we want to keep ourselves out of the mess, yet this comes back to bite us everytime. This goes as far back as the revolutionary war some would argue. The idea of pinning something to a or let me say our government is whats funny when I seethese ideas. Do we let the situation explode and get out of hand much like we did in WW2 until someone forces us into it, there comes a point when we cannot give Churchill anymore planes and bombs, we have to step in ourselves. Are we going to do that with the mid east? the question is how long do you want before WW3 starts? Iran attacks Isreal, Pakistan, India, then we spill into China, while North Korea jumps into the bar fight with a hay maker onto American soil in the form of some dirty bomb or some attack on Europe which then throws us even deeper as if we wouldnt be involved enough with Isreal. Then it becomes truly the war we all have wanted to see, where everyone is fighting everyone and no one knows why? Bible, Koran, Torah....Oil, Impearilsm or ignorance. Take your pick, the facts remain something has to be done, what? I dont know. Is what we are doing right? I dont know, but at least its something. Whose toes to step on and whose not, what to say and what not. Do we let them solve it themselves? Poland fell pretty quick ya know, Stalingrad wouldnt go down without a fight. Im not sure we could or would be so lucky next time.


BTW You can list any amount of "problems" with the admin. and I could list you a list just as long with Big Bill and the democrats, its just a matter of who you prefer and what you consider more in the light. 1992 has been a while ya know.

If Iran is not stopped in its attempt for nuclear weapons, they will have them soon (if not now)--and THEY will USE them against Israel. The only way to stop Iran is through military force. Only the US and Israel have that power, because Russia is now helping Iran to develop their nuclear weapons. Most likely what will happen is that military action would lead Russia bringing together a coalition of Islamic nations to invade Israel.

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If Iran is not stopped in its attempt for nuclear weapons, they will have them soon (if not now)--and THEY will USE them against Israel. The only way to stop Iran is through military force. Only the US and Israel have that power, because Russia is now helping Iran to develop their nuclear weapons. Most likely what will happen is that military action would lead Russia bringing together a coalition of Islamic nations to invade Israel.

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Russia has three major reasons for their interest in the Middle East:
(1) Russia will come to Israel because they need a warm-water entrance into the oceans of the world. The Middle East fills that need.

(2) Russia needs oil to regain its military superpower status. The Middle East offers that.

(3) The mineral deposits in the Dead Sea are so great they can't be appraised on today's market. It is estimated that the Dead Sea contains two billion tons of potassium chloride, which is potash needed to enrich the soil of the world. This sea also contains twenty-two billion tons of magnesium chloride and twelve billion tons of sodium chloride.

We can not trust Russia and the Middle East knows that very well. Iran stopped talks with them on Tuesday.

"BTW You can list any amount of "problems" with the admin. and I could list you a list just as long with Big Bill and the democrats, its just a matter of who you prefer and what you consider more in the light. 1992 has been a while ya know. " Show me where any group in history sold the country to the Arabs, other than the Bush ties to the Bin Lauden family. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

So you don't think Slick Willie had contacts within the Bin Laden family? How would one explain Clinton turning down Sudan's offer to turn over Osama to the U.S. back in the late 90's free of charge with no strings attached?

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So you don't think Slick Willie had contacts within the Bin Laden family? How would one explain Clinton turning down Sudan's offer to turn over Osama to the U.S. back in the late 90's free of charge with no strings attached?

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Slick Willy received a promise of 70 virgins with that deal, only he didn't want to have to die to get them. As a concession, they promised him 2 virgins, plastic surgery for Chelsea, and a eunoch to keep Hillary out of his bedroom.

He's still waiting for the virgins. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Ties to Billionaire bin Laden Brood (or facts for the blind [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

The unexplained death of Salem, Osama bin Laden's oldest brother, in 1988, brought to an abrupt end a long and intriguing relationship between President Bush and the head of the bin Laden family fortune.

The world now associates the bin Laden name with Osama bin Laden, the prime suspect be hind the terror atrocities of Sept. 11. As President George W. Bush leads an intense international manhunt for Osama, few Americans realize that Osama's eldest brother, Salem, was one of Bush's first business partners.

A photograph from 1971 has surfaced and been printed in English papers showing Osama, age 14, and his brother Salem, age 19, enjoying a summer holiday at the Astoria Hotel in Falun, Sweden. Christina Akerblad, the hotel owner, told the Daily Mail, "They were beautiful boys, so elegantly dressed. Everybody loved them."

Osama embraced Islamic fundamentalism and is now the world's most wanted man. "Salem went on to become a business partner of the man who is leading the hunt for his brother," the Daily Mail's Peter Allen said. "In the 1970s, he and George W. Bush were founders of the Arbusto Energy oil company in Mr. Bush's home state of Texas."

President Bush and the bin Laden family have been connected through dubious business deals since 1977, when Salem, the head of the bin Laden family business, one of the biggest construction companies in the world, invested in Bush's start-up oil company, Arbusto Energy, Inc.

James R. Bath, a friend and neighbor, was used to funnel money from Osama bin Laden's brother, Salem bin Laden, to set up George W. Bush in the oil business, according to The Wall Street Journal and other reputable sources.

Through a tangled web of Saudi multi-millionaires, Texas oilmen, and the infamous Bank of Credit and Commerce International, Bush was financially linked with the bin Laden family until Salem met an untimely end in a freak flying accident near San Antonio in 1988.

The infamous BCCI was shut down in 1991 with some $10 billion in losses.

In June 1977, George W. Bush formed his own oil drilling company, Arbusto Energy, in Midland, Tex.

"Arbusto" actually means "shrub" in Spanish, but the Bush family interpreted it as "bush".
Salem bin Laden, a close friend of the Saudi King Fahd had "invested heavily in Bush's first business venture," according to The Daily Mail (U.K.).

Arbusto later became Bush Exploration, when Bush's father became vice president. As the company neared financial collapse in September 1984, it was merged with Spectrum 7 Energy Corp. in an effort to stay afloat.

The 50 investors who propped up the Bush company with $4.7 million were "mainly friends of my uncle" who "did pretty good" in Bush's words, although they lost most of the money they invested in the company. Jon Bush, George's uncle, raised money for Arbusto from political supporters of the Reagan-Bush administration.

"These were all the Bushs' pals," family friend Russell Reynolds told the Dallas Morning News in 1998. "This is the A-Team."

The "A-Team" limited partners contributed $4.67 million to various Bush funds through 1984 but got only $1.55 million back in profit distributions, and $3.9 million in tax write-offs.

William DeWitt and Mercer Reynolds, two staunch Reagan-Bush supporters, owned Spectrum 7.

Despite his poor track record, the owners made Bush president of the company and gave him 13.6 percent of the parent company's stock.
surprise deal

As the hard times continued, Spectrum merged with Harken Energy in 1986. In 1990, Harken received a contract from the government of Bahrain to drill for offshore oil although Harken Energy had never drilled a well overseas or anywhere in water.

"Knowledgeable oil company sources believe that the Bahrain oil concession was indeed an oblique favor to the president of the United States but say that Saudi Arabia (home of bin Laden) was behind the decision," according to The Outlaw Bank: A Wild Ride Into the Secret Heart of the BCCI, by Jonathan Beaty and S.C. Gwynne.

It raised oil-industry eyebrows when the Persian Gulf state announced it had chosen tiny Harken to explore an offshore site for gas and oil. Bahrain officials said they had no idea President Bush's son was associated with Harken, a claim oil-industry sources ridicule.
The Bahrain deal was brokered in part by Arkansas investment banker David Edwards, one of Bill Clinton's closest friends. The Bahrain oil project resulted in two dry holes and Harken energy abandoned the project.

Two months before Iraq invaded Kuwait, on June 20, 1990, the younger Bush sold two-thirds of his Harken stock, 212,140 shares at $4 a share-for a total of $848,560.
"That was $318,430 more than it was worth," Dr. Arthur F. Ide, author of George W. Bush: Portrait of a Compassionate Conservative, said. "George W. broke the law to do this since the transaction was an insider stock sale."

Eight days later, Harken finished the second quarter with losses of $23 million and the stock went "into a nosedive" losing 75 percent of its value, finishing the year at a little over $1 a share.

"Like his father who made his fortune in the oil business with the money of others, George W. founded Arbusto with the financial backing of investors, including James R. Bath," said the late James Howard Hatfield, author of a "controversial biography," Fortunate Son: George W. Bush and the Mak ing of an American President.

Hatfield, 43, was found dead of an apparent prescription drug overdose in a hotel room in Springdale, Ark. on July 18, 2001. Police declined to investigate.

Bath became friends with George W. during their days together in the Texas Air National Guard. Bath "confided that he was an original investor in George Bush Jr.'s oil exploration company," according to The Outlaw Bank.

Bath found investors for Arbusto and "made his fortune" by investing the money of two BCCI-connected Saudi sheiks, Khalid bin Mahfouz and Salem bin Laden. Mahfouz was one of the richest men in the world and a controlling shareholder in BCCI.

Bill White, a former real estate business partner of Bath, said: "He had put up $50,000 to help George, Jr., get started in oil business" at a time when "Bath had no substantial money of his own," according to The Outlaw Bank.

Bath received a 5 percent interest in two Arbusto-related limited partnerships controlled by Bush, although Bush told The Houston Post in 1990 that he had "never done any business" with Bath. However, Bush said Bath was "a lot of fun."

Bath told White that he was in the CIA and that "he had been recruited by George Bush himself in 1976 when Bush was director of the agency . . . he said Bush wanted him involved with the Arabs, and to get into the aviation business."

White contends that the Saudis were using Bath and their huge financial resources to influence U.S. policy during the Reagan and Bush administrations, according to the Houston Chronicle of June 4, 1992. Such representation by Bath would require that he be registered as a foreign agent with the Department of Justice, which he was not.

Shortly after Bush's father was appointed director of the CIA, Salem bin Laden appointed Bath as his business representative in Texas. According to The Houston Chronicle, Salem bin Laden, heir to one of the largest building companies in the Middle East, signed a trust agreement appointing Bath as his Houston representative in 1976.

In 1978 Bath purchased Houston Gulf Airport on behalf of Salem bin Laden. When bin Laden died in 1988, his interest in the airfield passed to bin Mahfouz.

There was also a political aspect to Salem bin Laden's financial activities, which played a role in U.S. operations in the Middle East and Central America during the 1980s,
according to Public Broadcasting's Frontline report.

As head of Binladen Brothers Construction (now the Binladen Group), a company that later helped build U.S. airfields during Operation Desert Storm, bin Laden was close to King Fahd of Saudi Arabia and "a good friend of the U.S. government," a San Antonio attorney, Wayne Fagan, who represented Salem bin Laden from 1982 to 1988, told the San Antonio Express-News.

When the family patriarch, Sheik Mohammed bin Laden, died in 1968, he left an industrial and financial empire and a progeny of 54 sons and daughters, the fruit of a number of wives. In 1972, Salem bin Laden, the oldest son, took over the estate as his father's successor, with the assistance of several brothers.

With over 40,000 employees, the Bin Laden Group is represented in the major cities of Saudi Arabia and the Arab capitals of Beirut, Cairo, Amman, and Dubai. The company builds highways, housing units, factories, hangars, and military bases, some of which are part of the U.S.-Saudi "Peace Shield" agreement.

The story of the Bush involvement with bin Laden and the BCCI scandal involves "trails that branched, crossed one another, or came to unexpected dead ends," according to The Outlaw Bank.

FREAK ACCIDENT

Salem bin Laden came to an "unexpected dead end" in a Texas pasture, 11 years after investing in Arbusto, when the ultralight aircraft he was flying crashed into power lines near San Antonio on Memorial Day, 1988.

On the morning of May 29, 1988, almost immediately after takeoff, Salem bin Laden's aircraft struck and became entangled in power lines 150 feet high before plunging to the ground.

"He was a very experienced pilot. He was a good pilot. We just can't understand why he decided to go right instead of left," recalled airstrip owner and former Marine Earl May field, who cradled bin Laden, bleeding from the ears.

That day, bin Laden took off in a southeasterly direction into the wind. He surprised onlookers by turning west to ward power lines less than a quarter-mile away.

"Nobody could figure out why he tried to fly over the power lines," said Gerry Auerbach, 77, of New Braunfels, a retired pilot.

Bin Laden had more than 15,000 hours of flight experience.

The police report concluded "freak accident."

Some of'em appear to have a brain-
Sue Myrick, R-N.C., expressed the anger of many lawmakers when she sent Bush a one-sentence letter that read:

Dear Mr. President:
In regards to selling American ports to the United Arab Emirates, not just NO "? but HELL NO!

Myrick's office said she had been getting a lot of angry constituent phone calls and e-mail.

Firm's connection to Bush appointee... from msn- lease veto

Let it go Spuds. I'd hate for em to find you stiffer than a board beside number 4 belt drive!!!!!!!!!!!!! [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

I say we sell them the ports, then after 30 days, take them back with any force needed. Find a clause in the contract!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

I say we keeo it ourselves and train our own people and create some jobs. As you can see I lean towards our administration on many issues, however I do not fall for them. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Bush doesn't take any crap, and that is what I like about him. I do not agree with everything he does by a long shot, but I like his steadfastness!!!!!!!!!!!! [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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DeanMachine


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What was your old name? I forgot who this was.

burrhead

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Bush doesn't take any crap, and that is what I like about him. I do not agree with everything he does by a long shot, but I like his steadfastness!!!!!!!!!!!! [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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I think you are right on his steadfastness and believe that is something that America as a whole does not have. We seem to want short, high-tech military campaigns with shock and awe that end in Washington D.C with massive parades down Pennsylvania Avenue on national television, such as we had in Desert Storm. Long, drawn-out wars of attrition, as in Vietnam and Iraq, will be a part of our past---not our future. That is why America will not respond to the Arab nations and their buddies (Russia) when they invade Israel. We have become a nation of fast-food, fast internet, fast pace of life and nation that does not want to take the time and have the will to do something that is not instant.

Because I can, haha- and the US will respond to ANY threat to Israel, the nukes they have had for years didn't fall off the oil rigs. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] As far as LONNNNG drawn out resource suckin' conflicts, without a real goal, somebody must be able to reason, as it is plain to see that our government couldn't decide what to do before they started this war. The goals seem to change a lot, from wmds to Saddam to rebuilding, to finding a way out without losing face. It appears as if we should have quit while ahead, I'd be willing to bet the prolonged stay played a part in the elections next door, and the growth of Hamas. At least the troops would have had some rest. If the intent was to stabilize the region, then we should have yelled "hot pursuit" and rocked right on across Iran before anyone knew we were coming- but I knew we didn't have that kind of leadership. Too many politics involved, but let's not waste the troops- make up our mind- get in or out. This is getting old. But we all know I'm crazy, ha ,like a fox. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Let the troops run, hold the reins loose. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] This part of the world will bring about the END and the blood will be the blood of nations- OIL- running as deep as the horses bellys. Just a few more ODD deals to make the "roadmap" for peace in the middle east work and the last missing parts of the puzzle fall into place.

If your analysis is right houndman...and there are plenty of reasons to believe it is...it does not bode well for a prolonged war on terror. The terrorists are counting on that lack of steadfastness and lack of will to stay in it for the long haul from us in order to have a chance to impose their will. They can not do it militarily because we are far superior in every aspect. They can only hope for Americans to lose the interest and will to defeat them completely and totally. Terrorists networks do have plenty reasons for hope right now with a divided ideaology among Americans on how to go about precipitating their demise.

The countdown has begun, and in its aftermath the world will change forever. Iran is the command post for global Islamic terror. They have made it clear to America, Europe, and the United Nations that it intends to join the nuclear club. Iran's president has announced that Iran will share its nuclear power with the Islamic world. Iran's hatred for America and Israel is without limit. Their nuclear program is designed to make Islam a global force and is a great threat to democracy. The attack on 9/11 proved that Islamic terrorists are willing to use their weapons against America on American soil. America and Israel will be forced to stop Iran's nuclear production or gamble with the national security of both nations. Are these two nations ready to talk that gamble?

I hope I am not right. The evil strategies of destruction that this enemy of Israel have prepared for Israel and the world can not wait. We must be prepared to stop this evil enemy in its tracks. There isn't very much time to get it right--the stakes are high, and failure is not an option. Unless we prepare today, tomorrow could dawn with the horrors of an Iranian nuclear strike on Israel--or America.
Napoleon Bonaparte, has been credited with instructing his army, "Know your enemy!" How well do we know the enemy or put another way how well do we want to know the enemy? I am only saying that we must be prepared to face an enemy that instructs its followers to kill their enemies (America and Israel). We must know our enemies.

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Bush doesn't take any crap, and that is what I like about him. I do not agree with everything he does by a long shot, but I like his steadfastness!!!!!!!!!!!! [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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yet there are times when that "steadfastness" can be taken for FANATACISM

Would you call this fanaticism? On September 30, 2005 the WorldNetDaily reported that at least seven terrorists teams are working within mosques and Islamic centers in the United States. Could these groups maintain a nuclear weapon in the United States without our knowledge? The answer is YES because a federal judge will not provide any FBI or law enforcement agent with a warrant to search a mosque of an Islamic center for ANY REASON since such places are listed as "houses of worship." The seven areas that have been identified are New York, Miami, Houston, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Washington DC. It is reported that Iran is now developing something that is called an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) designed to be used against the US in a time of war. In March of this year, The Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Terrorism Technology and Homeland Security, held a hearing on the EMP threat against America. Here is what this device does: "it does not kill people-it kills electrons. In short, it stops every form of electricity instantly and for months, maybe years." You may say that this can't happen but it has been talked about for twenty years and now rogue states have the ability to put this weapon to use. I would hope that a President would not make a mistake and not be listening to info on these mosques and Islamic centers. Can we afford not to listen to certain phone calls? Would you rather have your Civil Liberties or your life?

You know you ask a good question there at the end of your post houndman. I think the problem is most americans just don't respect the capability and seriousness of our enemy(islamic terrorists). Just think about it for a minute...their sole intention in life is to worship Allah and destroy America/Israel. They will do whatever it takes to accomplish this goal. They will gather whatever means necessary to assist in our destruction. People just flat out don't take it serious enough or they just don't believe it can happen. If the wiretapping issue is more important to them than waking up one morning and a major U.S. city being wiped off the map by a nuclear warhead explosion or the scenario you mentioned with the electrons then I guess I'm just not enlightened enough or I'm missing something here? I just don't get it at all. America should have their game faces on right now...this is no joke. I'm not paranoid but I'm not naive to the possibilities either. Maybe I've got it all wrong...I dunno I guess we will wait and see. Hopefully nothing like that ever happens but I feel we are getting closer and closer to the possibility of turning on the news one day and witnessing the city formerly known as Cleveland, Atlanta, Houston, L.A. or anywhere for that matter that basically makes Katrina aftermath in New Orleans look like a paradise.

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I think the problem is most americans just don't respect the capability and seriousness of our enemy(islamic terrorists).

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True, the situation in the middle east is no laughing matter. Especialy with Iran and it's nuclear program and hamas in palestine. These people have been brainwashed to kill anyone who is any enemy to islam.
BTW: How many think that there will be a democratic govt. in Iraq?

Well said, I couldn't agree more. You are so right about having our game faces on.

So it's ok to wiretap and we aren't gonna search for a nuke- this where I get off this train. The WHOLE government is so stupid it is beyond belief sometimes, spend a fortune in Iraq, and NOT take the basic measures in our backyard. This is one of my biggest gripes about the whole mess. The Russians have never known how many suitcase nukes are missing. And the folks that armed the people in Afganistan the first time to combat the Russians must have been crazy, read your history and see who funded that screw-up and to what extent, how it changed the middle east and the face of Islam. But you can't go back- so I guess I'll get to pay for the clean up of this too.

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So it's ok to wiretap and we aren't gonna search for a nuke- this where I get off this train. The WHOLE government is so stupid it is beyond belief sometimes, spend a fortune in Iraq, and NOT take the basic measures in our backyard. This is one of my biggest gripes about the whole mess. The Russians have never known how many suitcase nukes are missing. And the folks that armed the people in Afganistan the first time to combat the Russians must have been crazy, read your history and see who funded that screw-up and to what extent, how it changed the middle east and the face of Islam. But you can't go back- so I guess I'll get to pay for the clean up of this too.

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If you want to know the date that the Middle East changed for ever it was the rebirth of the State of Israel, May 14, 1948, at 4:32 p.m. Jerusalem was reunited under Jewish leadership for the first time in two thousand years with Israel's victory in the Six-Day War of 1967. There is no city in the world like Jerusalem. Jerusalem the very word excites and stirs deep emotions, memories of the past, and hopes for the future. Islam is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. It shall never change and will never accept change. That is the clean-up you are talking about. Without the city of Jerusalem, the State of Israel could not exist. This city is now and will be in the future the CENTER of universe. There will be no world peace until there is peace in Jerusalem.

Part of wiretapping IS part of the information gathering to detect something like that happening before it becomes a catastrophe. You can get off the train if you want to but when something like that actually happens I'm sure you will wish you waited at the depot a little longer. I don't have to go read my history to know who armed the Afghans against the Russians. It was siding with the lesser of two evils. Russia was a bigger threat at the time and no one could have foresaw the the events that followed in the 90's with the Taliban rising to power. So you would have let Russia have their way and take over everything in the middle east? I'm not sure we would be the world's only superpower right now if it would have went down like that are you?

If the WHOLE gov't is so stupid then that means the American people are just as stupid because thats who put them in their positions.

Bigganejames, have you ever thought about the fact when Israel became a state, despite pressure from the U.S. State Department not to recognize Israel lest we offend Arab oil-producing nations, President Harry S. Truman was the first to recognize the State of Israel on May 14, 1948. This was a time in history that we had the right President at the right moment to stand up for what they believe. Another thing that Truman did was to help various Jewish family immigrants to come to America to escape the Holocaust. It seems that we tend to have the right President at the right time and that holds true today.

To no one.

Has anyone thought or looked at who is winning what. We have become more communist lately due to our fear of terrorism.
To me we are not winning anything, Afghan has become a new Iraq, Iraq is ready for a civil war a new Vietnam for the US.
If anything we are changing to what those who attacked us on 9/11 wanted. A nation in fear of another attack. And a nation becoming close to a communist nation due to fear from the outside.
So in all honesty who is winning what?