woopty doo

All this crap on Barry Bonds using steroids is getting kind of old. Why is it you take the best player in baseball and make a big deal out of steroid use when probably at least half of major leaguers use them. They should be legal anyways. Does anyone have a clue how hard it is to play 162 games in a season when you only get one day off in a month maybe even no days off. i don't think so. This includes travel different time zones and playing every day. It is virtually impossible for an athlete to be in such good shape that he doesn't have injuries. Take a look at cal ripken jr. there is no way that he could have played that many games in a row without taking something. But noone ever said anything about that. just my opinion. I'm not saying that bonds didn't use roids, because i believe he did but they should get over it he's still one of the best hitters in history.

So, you advocate using steroids to gain an advantage over someone who is honest enough not to? That just proves just what the almighty dollar will do to someone, to make them risk their lasting health for the big contract. I wouldn't want to end up with a brain tumor, shrunken genitalia, or acne like a madman all over my back....and before you say "That comes with abuse", it's proven that these conditions apply with even casual use. So you have fun throwing your life away for a George Washington or two, I'll stick to what God gave me....it aint much, but I aint dead yet.

Agreed. And oh yeah, Cal Ripken was the biggest roid user ever. He was huge. (hope the sarcasm is coming through).

The media hates Bonds so you know they are going to do everything in their power to go after him. Of course it just makes him more driven to accomplish more.

Bonds never cheated and has never failed a drug test while drug testing has become a part of the sport. Even now, if the sources are completely true, it still is irrelevant because youre probably never going to get a failed drug test from Bonds, a drug test from the past(in an era where he didnt cheat) and youre never going to hear him say "I used blah blah blah, etc, etc"

You guys saw his statement about the book. 2 sentences, he could care less.

You could say Pitchers cheat by walking him 4 times a game but it was/is as much a part of the game as the steroids were.

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone have a clue how hard it is to play 162 games in a season when you only get one day off in a month maybe even no days off. i don't think so

[/ QUOTE ]
We are talkin baseball here it's not they are very rigorous games even thought they do play 162 a year. And especially for an outfielder they have the least active position on the field. ANd don't go into what they do off the field in practice and such, let's give them a hammer and see how they fair driving nails and carrying lumber 8-10 hours a day for about 320 days a year and the ones that do do this don't use any performance enhancers besides caffein and sugar. I don't want to hear any garbage about how hard it is to play baseball without steroids, baseball was played for over half a century without steroids to help them and most players had other jobs besides playing ball for a long time before they started getting paid enough to just be a fulltime player.

[ QUOTE ]
You could say Pitchers cheat by walking him 4 times a game but it was/is as much a part of the game as the steroids were.

[/ QUOTE ]

You "could", but I don't know if I'd go THAT far buddy...intentional walks are in the rule books from Little League on up to the MLB. Steroids isn't in the rule book, and the earliest you'll see young kids take anything like that is HS. Walks/intentional walks are part of the game and strategy...steroids isn't.

If the sources in the book ARE true, then they are relevant to how he'll be looked at in the history of the game. If he does eventually admit to taking steroids...then all of those records he's bound to break (along w/the ones he has right now) may get that dreaded asterisk beside of them. To me, that'd be more humiliating in the long run than to take them away altogether.

Don't get me wrong, I agree the media doesn't like Bonds and they may trump stuff up and blow things out of proportion to get a "scoop" on him, but just because a book is written doesn't mean that the sources aren't true. Failed drug tests or no, if someone has the information and is a credible source saying that he did indeed take something performance enhancing, then it will hurt his legacy.

All that being said--I still think he breaks Hank Aaron's record, gets into the HOF...mainly because people will realize, 'roids or not, that it's one of the greatest athletic feats of all time to hit the ball like he has. It still takes a lot of skill to hit the ball at as high of an average and with as much power as he does on a consistent basis.

I would like to add that I am not degrading Bonds or his ability, he is a pure hitter, I couldn't even come close to what he has done I can hit the ball a mile if I get a hold of one but I just don't have an eye for hitting, I guess that is why I gave up baseball in 9th grade for throwing shot and disc and lifting weights for football. But back to my point withour the roids Bonds would have retired a few years ago and all this wouldn't even be a topic.

oh roids were a part of the game, they werent illegal like a corked bat or a spit ball so they were part of the game. It just happend to be the part of the game called workout regiment. I realize roids and being walked 4 times a game are totally different, just making the point that the dude usually gets a couple pitches a game towards achieving what he has achieved.

I personally enjoy the Victor Conte science fair experiment, he made a machine almost like a real life Ivan Drago.

Bench ,Rose , Contraption (Perez couldn't say the name and that was the clubhouse nickname) Perez, May , Helms, Griffey, Foster...that was just the Cincy teams. If he can't play like he is supposed to toss him out like Rose got for gambling. It is the same as any other drug or illegal habit that has an effect on the game. Baseball is the easy sport, let him chase Jordan (and I was a Celtic Fan) around and see what he tears up. How much does a baseball player actually MOVE during a game? 5 at bats and 6 or 8 put outs? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] PS, I loved a good "doctored " fastball, spitball, cut by the filed laces , vasoline, emeryboard in the hatliner, I've seen'em all. Anybody remember Ted Abernathy? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Exactly the point I was trying to make, golfers are more active than baseball players overall, they walk at least 1-2 miles a day.
I also like the point with Pete Rose what bonds did was more degrading to baseball than waht Rose ever did and at least he admitted to gambling but never on his own team at the detriment of the team. They try and be all high and mighty about being better than gambling but they don't try and do anything about stopping anyone from doing it and actually support it. Pete Rose was a better player than bonds ever was and didn't use anything except his God given ability.

Bonds never cheated, Rose went against the cardinal rule of the game that is on the clubhouse wall. You can compare Rose to Jackson and you can compare Bonds to McGwire but you cant compare Rose to Bonds. There is a big difference between breaking the rules of the game/cheating and taking advantage of non rules to benefit yourself. Bonds used Maple bats before anyone, should we do an investigation on that too?

And a hard head- anybody that sprinted to first for every walk .... and to have moved as many times as he did to let the Reds move other folks into the team,best I can recall. He played everything but pitcher and catcher on a regular basis , at one time or another. Didn't stay much at short. And the head-first slide. I've seen him on local talk shows, during batting slumps, with blisters on his hands. This guy had to sell cars, in the off-season, Bench too, to make the kind of cash they wanted. Asked for a raise after getting National MVP from $100,000 to $107,000. Was told it was too much. Guys loved the town, didn't care much for the owners. These guys are the pros I remember...long gone I guess....all of'em today want a fortune. Rose spoke at a banquet at Dryden, he and John Wooden were there for my jr and sr year. We had a hustler for a principal, Jack Keith. They didn't consolidate Lee while Jack was in the schools either, did they? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

The statistics from SportsCenter this morning were unique.

Before 1998, Bonds hit one homerun per 16 AB's; since 1998, Bonds has hit one homerun per 8 AB's. His slugging percentage has went up over .200 since 1998.

All this coming from a man who already had 400 homeruns/400 steals

Thats pretty cool, his total amount of stats will never be touched because he is in so many categories. He was a Ricky Henderson with power that played left field like Mays played center and now hes a Babe Ruth with the hitting skills of Ted Williams. You guys should appreciate what your seeing, roids or no roids, its a beautiful thing to watch.

The cash element has ruined pro sports for me.

Where is the rule against getting the most hits ? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] He wasn't up for saint he was up for playing ball. Same deal. Bet , shoot. Bonds ain't made the Hall yet either. Give'em enough time and somebody will find a reason to stop him. If Rose bet against the team it would be one thing- it can't be controlled any other way, which is the crime. But we all know I don't get a vote in it. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

first of all the comment about golfers being more active is rediculous. They show up before a round hit a bucket of range balls and head out for their tee time. The caddy carries the bag and all they do is walk. On the other hand a major league baseball player or minor league play for that will show up 6 hours before the game to have PRACTICE hmmm imagine that you don't think they just show up and play do you i hope not. Also they lift weights everyday whether it be before or after the game. Sure the actuall game is not that tough but preparing for the game every single day is a task nonetheless. It is also important to remember that when you get walked in a game it doesnt count as an at bat. Bonds gets older, hits more homers, draws more walks, which means he's a great hitter and has an excellent eye. He's not up there swinging at everything like in his younger days. He has developed the best eye in baseball. I think its pretty amazing if you think about the pitches that he will see in a ball game and if the pitcher messes up like the white sox announcers say YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD YEEEEESSSS. sorry had to throw that in there.

Steriods or not if he gets 756 HR and beats hank aaron...im gonna be PISSED !!!!

better start to get pissed cause hes going to

he needs 52 without roids and he said hes retiring after this year no matter wat...so yea....i doubt it

[ QUOTE ]
he needs 52 without roids and he said hes retiring after this year no matter wat...so yea....i doubt it

[/ QUOTE ]

You're assuming that he'll be without steroids AND without HGH as well. Off the Roids? Sure--I'll believe that. He's been tested and came through clean. Not using HGH? Not sure I can buy that.

he didnt say he was retiring after this year, usa today misquoted him.

He said if his legs dont hold up and hes not having fun, he will retire at the end of the year.

He doesnt need 52, he needs 48 I believe.

i think he has 408 but idk

Actually he changed his mind, he said if his body was well enough to play after this year he would. If it wasn't, he wouldn't.

They were all on steroids, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Giambi, etc. Its foolish in my eyes to not think so, there comes a point where your body stops growing on its own, at their age, to grow so quickly shows signs of doping. If you have ever seen them in person you would know what I mean, I saw Bonds 10 ft from me in street clothes and he is one if not the biggest person I have ever seen.
They was no rule against steroids, all had the choice to use or not to use.

[ QUOTE ]
first of all the comment about golfers being more active is rediculous. .. Sure the actuall game is not that tough but preparing for the game every single day is a task nonetheless. It is also important to remember that when you get walked in a game it doesnt count as an at bat.

[/ QUOTE ]Are all your statements so fact filled? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I wanted him to chase Jordan around, remember? And the "walk" arguement is a lil' lame- NONE of the other hitters EVER got walks. And Babe Ruth never struck out either.... [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] As far as at-bats I was talking about the number of times you might have to RUN the bases, so walking would kinda be like me getting a long lunch.

Here is an excerpt from an editorial that I read today, I thought it was interesting.

1. Unfortunately, this time in baseball will be known as the "Steroids Era". MLB and the Players Union are at least as guilty as any individual player for allowing this to happen. It has been the accepted culture of the game, and MOST players of the time - pitchers and hitters - undoubtedly took advantage of it. Oh, and by the way, the fans loved it.

2. Despite such widespread use,. NOT ONE player put up numbers remotely close to the offensive numbers Bonds put up. You need to compare players by the era in which they played; Bonds is simply the best player of his time...by far. And if you think he doesn't belong in the HOF, then nobody does from the "Steroid Era" because we simply don't know who's been a user and who hasn't. Perhaps we should pretend there was no baseball during this period?

3. Since pitchers took steroids as well, how does that factor in the equation? After all, Ruth, Williams and Mays didn't have to face pitchers who took steroids. Perhaps Bonds should get some extra credit for that?

4. As for the claim that Bonds is a cheater, keep in mind that steroids were not banned in baseball until 2003. So neither Bonds nor any other player cheated before that time (yes, they broke laws, but did not cheat under baseball rules). There is NO evidence whatsoever that Bonds used steroids once the game banned them. That is pure conjecture.

5. Bonds is being singled out and crucified for two reasons: 1) He has a prickly personality (i.e he's a jerk), and 2) he holds the single-season record for HRs and will most likely break Aaron's career HR record as well. If he was nicer and not quite so good, he wouldn't be attacked like this. Not really fair.
6. People make too big of a deal of Aaron's record anyway. Comparing career numbers across eras is impossible. Does anybody really think Aaron, with 4000 more at-bats, was a better power hitter than Ruth? Of course not. There are a ton of factors that go into career numbers; Bonds' probable use of steroids is just one more of them. We can argue all we want as to how Bonds' career numbers compare to others, but one point is inarguable: Bonds is a player for the ages who would have been great in any era. Just like Aaron. Just like Ruth.

7. Baseball fans who berate and belittle Bonds are really missing a great show. Love him or hate him, Bonds may be the greatest hitter in history; at a minimum he is the best since Ted Williams and the third best ever behind Williams and Ruth. Enjoy it! We may never see a hitter as great as Bonds again. And steroids alone simply don't explain his brilliance. Give credit where credit is due and recognize such critical factors as his extraordinary hand-eye coordination, beautiful swing, unbelievable discipline to lay off pitches out of the strike zone, profound baseball intelligence, incredible work ethic, etc.

Whether or not you like it or want to accept it...he is going to break both Ruth's and Aaron's records and he will be in the Hall.

Don't forget the "closer" ,I don't think too many of the old guys had to ever face the last inning ace. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

money says he dont break his records....is it legal to say that?

Long as you don't bet on your own team. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] and want in the HOF.

Mega's got the right idea, just sit back one game, and watch the bat speed Bonds has.

With or without juice, any man that can swing a bat that fast, is amazing.

People who are not paying any attention to this man are crazy, he's Michael Jordon in cleats.

No one dominates a game like Bonds. Not A-Rod, not Pujols, Manny, or Vlad. When Bonds comes up to bad, you know that something is going to happen. Like when MJ touched a basketball, when Bonds has a bat, sit back and enjoy the ride.

I didnt read every post, BUT, steriods werent illegal in baseball while Bonds may have or may not have been on them. Hes never failed a drug test, since its been introduced. So basicly, they cant touch Bonds stats.

Also, fans who complain or put down Bonds are very silly. Why single him out, he didnt even break any rules. Just simply sit back, enjoy this season and lets see how a 42 year old Bonds can still amaze us.

I grew about 35 pounds of muscle in a year, and everyone thought i was on roids but i didnt juice. One way that there is no doubt in my mind though that Bonds was/is on steroids is from the size of his head. nobody gets a cranium that big naturally. a head doesnt grow 7 times its natural size without something. haha i dont see what the point in the steroid argument is though. without the God given ability of hand eye coordination you can not hit a home run. i dont care how hard you hit a ball, without hitting it in the right place it isnt going anywhere. The arguments just dont cut it. He is amazing.......

Yeah....but the second Bonds was so good [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ...without casting any doubt. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Non Pro golfers which walk and carry their on bags on the other hand are more active. I just think baseball is the most boring sport ever invented it`s too long game wise and season wise. Tired of turning on sportscenter and hoping to see some good sports but all I see is baseball and steroids nearly every day [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Mega's got the right idea, just sit back one game, and watch the bat speed Bonds has.

With or without juice, any man that can swing a bat that fast, is amazing.

People who are not paying any attention to this man are crazy, he's Michael Jordon in cleats.

No one dominates a game like Bonds. Not A-Rod, not Pujols, Manny, or Vlad. When Bonds comes up to bad, you know that something is going to happen. Like when MJ touched a basketball, when Bonds has a bat, sit back and enjoy the ride.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with you Biggin, but I think if Pujols stays healthy, and plays as long as Bonds has he will surpass Bonds records, ( as far as avg. and HR's ) now having said that to do what Bonds has done for as long as he has done it is very impressive, roids or no roids.

Pujols would be a good choice, though hes still got a long way to go. Theres always some guy that starts out amazing in his career, and everything thinks hes gotta shot to break records. Like Ken Griffey Jr for example, no one knew that the prime of his career would be plauged by injuries.

Id say right now, the best choice would be A-Rod. Very consistent, and I still dont think we have seen him at his best.