Can anyone clarify exactly what the rule is on holding back in the 8th grade. If you play J.V. basketball in the 8th grade can you hold back and play J.V. again, then as a 9th grader go to varsity.
Printable View
Can anyone clarify exactly what the rule is on holding back in the 8th grade. If you play J.V. basketball in the 8th grade can you hold back and play J.V. again, then as a 9th grader go to varsity.
Check the county and school rules CLOSELY. Some of the schools seem to be really against this. You can sell drugs, but a kid better not wanna spend an extra year in high school, even if they wanna go to college, and get some core classes out of the way. Folks will holler about costs, but the teachers and schools are already there.
The way I understand it is this. If you are a regular 8th grader you can play jv sports. However, if you are a hold back 8th grader you are not supossed to play any jv sports. Once the holdback reaches the 9th grade he is elgible for varsity. As far as your question goes. If you play jv while you are a true 8th grader and decide to hold back you can't play jv again the following year. I am aware of one kid for sure that is in this situation. He played both 8th grade and jv basketball last year and decided to hold back and wasn't allowed to play jv.
Play 8th grade your 8th grade year and jv your hold back year, the VHSL doesn't care about less than high school . This means varsity sports and 9th grade, catch- some schools won't let you take that many classes of less than high school level the second year. It is discrimination, no different than failing. If a kid fails anywhere in school , then they would have to lose a year of playing time. No, I don't believe this, but the board will never win this argument if you get your stuff together.
You have 4 years of to play once you reach 9th grade.
at the beginning of this school year there was talk that they were going to change the rule starting next school year. The change would be that instead of setting eligibility for varsity sports as 8 consecutive semesters starting in the 9th grade, it would be changed to eligibility for both jv and varsity sports would be 10 consecutive semesters starting in the 8th grade. This change would make no player eligible for jv until he or she was in the 8th grade; thus, eliminating any chance for a holdback year. Still the athlete would have the same eligibility as now once in the 9th grade. Don't know if it has been passed or voted on...but before the spring is over we all will know if this is the case.
The rule did change
28-4-2
[ QUOTE ]
A student who is repeating the eighth grade after having successfully
completed the eighth grade (held back), must be enrolled in five new courses in order to
be eligible for a second year as an eighth grader.
[/ QUOTE ]
http://vhsl.org/Handbook.pdf
Now there is a heck of alot more to it than there used to be.
Add to that the fact that the rule has no teeth since
#1) It does not affect the players varcity elegability
#2) Worst case it leads to JV Forfits (and who really cares?)
#3) The the kid does it in 7th Grade there is nothing to stop him/her
#4) Call it middle school ball insted of JV and all is well
So YES there is a rule change and NO it will change nothing
Your post on the rule was a compromise earlier this year...there has been talk since of fixing the rule as I stated in my post for next year. But, as for now, your post is the way it stands. I have heard the compromise on the rule this year was to avoid law suits and complaints from parents who had kids that had held back already...but at the same time serves notice that the intention is to eventually phase out holding back in order to avoid lawsuits when the rule is changed.
If I remember correct they were looking at making Varcity elegability end 10 semesters after the student entered the 8th grade but still only be able to play the last 8 (9th grade on)
That did not happen this year and we got the watered down change.
I had not seen anything that sugusted that they were looking at making another change next year (Not saying that it is not in the works but I had not seen it brought up anywhere yet)
Working in schools you hear folks asking about it all the time. The answer most usually given is "this is how it stands now"..lol.
True LOL
[ QUOTE ]
#4) Call it middle school ball insted of JV and all is well
[/ QUOTE ]
Do as Gate City and have 7th and 8th graders play on the 8th grade team. We have been doing that for years though. Sometimes we have a JV team when we have alot of kids dress out to play Varsity. And then I think GC uses 9th through 11th graders. I really never heard of 8th graders on JV until we joined the LPD. I am speaking of football.
If the rule was changed to a student having to be in 8th grade to qualify to play jv, there wouldn't be any 7th graders on an 8th grade team tho.
The VHSL allows 8th to 11th Graders to play JV
Any 7th Graders on a team would have no VHSL assotation what so ever
I would think that most smaller schools would be forced to play 8th graders on there JV team or risk no haveing enough Kids to field a team.
IMHO I DO like the 7th and 8th grade team Plan that GC uses
[ QUOTE ]
If the rule was changed to a student having to be in 8th grade to qualify to play jv, there wouldn't be any 7th graders on an 8th grade team tho.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am not sure of the rules myself. All I am saying is I never saw an 8th grader on JV till we joined the LPD. I guess some districts do it different than others. Not saying anything wrong with it.
Considering that kids are young enough to play peanut football until they are 12 (usually 7th grade) I've always thought it best to leave them there. JV IMO should be 8th and 9th graders...in some circumstances 10th given the 10th grader is a player who gets little to no playing time on varsity due to his lack of ability. Other than that all 10-12 players should be varsity.
simple: just hold back in the 7th grade.
That can be done. But if the VHSL changes the rule to make eligibility for JV BEGIN in the 8th grade, with 10 consecutive semesters and the last 8 being varsity eligibility, then you will have a kid held back in the 7th grade that is too old for peanut football but not in a grade high enough for JV. Therefore, the kid will sit out a year..that is where the teeth of the rule will be if it is passed. There won't be "8th grade football" per-se, 8th and 9th will be JV along with any other older players that are eligible to play JV. The rest will be varsity. Here's somethin i was wondering about tho...at one time there was a rule that stated maximum number of quarters or minutes that a player could play if he played both JV and Varsity. Does this rule still exist?
IMO holding back should not be allowed. It gives some schools advantages over others. I know for a fact that Thomas Walker doesn't allow hold backs so can anyone honestly say that doesn't hurt them when they play teams that do have hold backs?? We're talking about 16 year old kids playing against 18-19 year old MEN!!
Yes In football it is 10 Games (used to be 40 qtrs)
Rule 54-8-1
http://vhsl.org/Handbook.pdf
[ QUOTE ]
54-8-1 Contest Limitations-No member school may permit its athletes or teams to
compete in more than the total number of regular season interscholastic contests, meets
or tournaments specified below for each sport either on the varsity or sub-varsity level. In the
sport of tennis participants would be limited to three matches per day; in wrestling, the limit
is five matches per individual per day over no more than two days.
Policy Manual 54-8-1
Baseball - 20
Basketball - 22
Cheer - 5
Cross Country - 10
Field Hockey - 16
Football - 10
Golf- 12
Gymnastics - 10
Indoor Track - 10
Lacrosse - 14
Soccer - 16
Softball - 20
Swimming - 10
Tennis - 16
Track - 10
Volleyball - 20
Wrestling - 12
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a rule that Most Small schools break since there are a great deal of JV players that see time on Varsity Special Teams or in mop up duty of an out of hand game
[ QUOTE ]
IMO holding back should not be allowed. It gives some schools advantages over others. I know for a fact that Thomas Walker doesn't allow hold backs so can anyone honestly say that doesn't hurt them when they play teams that do have hold backs?? We're talking about 16 year old kids playing against 18-19 year old MEN!!
[/ QUOTE ]
That is Thomas Walkers fault not the schools they play. Honestly I dont care who holds back. It isnt any of my buisness what the parent, student, and school choose to do. My daughter will be 18 her senior year and that will be if she doesnt fail. In Scott County the cut off for entering Kindergarten is the kid must be 5 years old by Sept 31. She was born on Oct 7. Just one wee past the deadline. So saying it isnt fair for a 16 yo to play against an 18 yo is wrong. Some kids can be born Oct 1 and will not get to start school the following year. That means if a boy wants to play football his senior year then he will play almost all the season as an 18 yo. Would it be fair to tell him he cant play because the school board wouldnt let him start school till he was 6? As for being 19 and playing that isnt my buisness.
ya know...i really don't care one way or another when it comes to the debate with holdbacks. The whole time I was in school we played against teams that had em. One thing I can say tho...I only know of 1 in the past 20 years from my alma mater (who shall remain nameless). We never had em. But, I do see the avdantages of it. And I do see where folks can argue that it isn't fair. The way I see it, the VHSL should just make the rule without ambigious wording or loopholes so that it can be enforced. That way there will be a clear point of reference for rulings. I think it is fair to go to the rule the way it was originally proposed last year. That way all athletes begin their eligibility for JV and varsity in 8th grade. There will be equal footing for all the athletes and if a parent wants to hold their kid back in 7th grade they would know the kid would have to miss a year because they were too old for little league. I just think the way it is done right now is twisted and abused. And there is a big difference between a 19 year old and a 17 year old. But, hold backs seems to be the only way some schools can compete..so whatever happens happens i guess.
[ QUOTE ]
ya know...i really don't care one way or another when it comes to the debate with holdbacks. The whole time I was in school we played against teams that had em. One thing I can say tho...I only know of 1 in the past 20 years from my alma mater (who shall remain nameless). We never had em. But, I do see the avdantages of it. And I do see where folks can argue that it isn't fair. The way I see it, the VHSL should just make the rule without ambigious wording or loopholes so that it can be enforced. That way there will be a clear point of reference for rulings. I think it is fair to go to the rule the way it was originally proposed last year. That way all athletes begin their eligibility for JV and varsity in 8th grade. There will be equal footing for all the athletes and if a parent wants to hold their kid back in 7th grade they would know the kid would have to miss a year because they were too old for little league. I just think the way it is done right now is twisted and abused. And there is a big difference between a 19 year old and a 17 year old. But, hold backs seems to be the only way some schools can compete..so whatever happens happens i guess.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know who you are talking about being held back at PV. Like you it does not concern me. I for one will not hold back my child for sports reasons. I do know some do it and dont care. That is their problem. The only thing I am saying is that some when speaking of holdbacks bring up 18 year olds. In some cases that isnt the parents fault. It is the cutoff devised by the school board. I like you can see some point of argument but I guess it is up to the VH$L.
This is how it has been forever. You take enough electives to remain playable, play JV. If ya wanna split hairs and worry ,like I said before- play 8th grade sports only in the first 8th grade year. If they screw you sue'em. They ain't that smart. The chairman of the school board told a lawyer he wouldn't understand the details of the Basham buy-out...I know she was smarter than the lawyer. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Like I said, I could care less. But if folks are gonna whine, they need to just set it up one way and deal with it. If there is a rule on the books that is fair for everyone with just one interpretation, it'll do no good to sue.
The rule is the same as it has always been. You just have to watch what you do. You can't PASS into the 9th grade and then holdback, you must not fail an 8th grade course that drops your GPA. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I'm not gonna sue over something that simple, I'm not gonna sue over anything, that easy.
Earlier in the thread we were talkin about how the rule has been proposed to change. Given that it passed and in order to play HS/JV sports you had to be in the 8th grade and you only had 10 semesters to be eligible for JV/Varsity once you got in the 8th grade, and that if you held back in the 7th the athlete would be too old for little league but not eligible for JV because he wouldn't be in the 8th, how would they get around it then without sitting out a year of sports?
Some that wind up holding back weren't too old for little league. That is why all don't fit in the same mold. The VHSL deals with senior high schools -10-12 in some cases, you will find them turning a deaf ear to this, I think. As for semesters, 2 for 8th grade, 2 for JV and 8 for varsity, isn't that what I said? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Pay close attention. It should have been like this all along.
No...what was proposed was making 8th grade/JV the same thing and having 10 semesters total...that means once ur in the 8th you have ur total eligibility begins. After 8th you have the same amount of time eligible as now...10 semesters total.
Don't some of the elementary schools house 8th grades? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
They may. But if this rule were to pass it wouldn't matter what school the 8th grade was in. It would just make it to where a student's total eligibility began in the 8th grade. And, the student would only have a maximum of 2 8th grade semesters instead of 4 if he held back. Cuz if he stayed in the 8th grade then it would serve no purpose cuz if he did he would go into the 9th grade with only 6 semesters of eligibility and not be eligible his sr. year.
You are correct I will try to find the exact wording of that rule (which was changed into the current rule which seldom is correct in that is is NOT very different than the old rule)
I may be wrong, but I thought the main advantage in holding back a student wasn't to gain eligibility, but to give him an extra year to mature (physically, mentally, and emotionally). If that's the case, hold him back anytime - he'll still be 19 his senior year.
That is the excuse. But really, do you think that is the main motavation behind most holdbacks? You have to ask yourself, how many students do you know that held back that were athletes. And, how many do you know that played no sports. That should answer the motivation behind holding back. Because the need to develop physically, emotionally and mentally won't just affect athletes.
Yeah, good points. I agree.
Well it looks like there may be another change to the "Holdback rule" while this one will still not prevent it , it will force changes if passed
http://vhsl.org/minutes.htm
"March 07 Agenda"
[ QUOTE ]
(2) 28-2-2 (4) GRADE RULE EXCEPTIONS:
(1) Student may compete on the subvarsity.....
(4) A student may participate in VHSL sub-varsity sports for one year only prior to entering the ninth grade.
[/ QUOTE ]
That would not only mean that 8th grade holdbacks would have to sit out a year of JV but ALSO that setups like GC JV football would be illagle (since 7th grade would be there one year prior to 9th in playing sub-varcity)
it passed commity 25-0 so I will be shocked if it does not pass
this will be very interesting if this actually passes into a rule. kentucky has been doing this for years. i don't know how well this will go over in Va.
Strangly enough a guy I work with lives in KY and has a kid in 5th grade and told me that he is thinking about holding him back for sports/maturaty but will have to do it this year becouse after 6th grade you have to sit out a year
This would effectively work and somewhat quell holding back unless the student started kindergarten a year early. There would be some exceptions but let's say a kid turns 5 in March and begins school the following year. If the kid passed all grades and graduated on time he would graduate at 18 and 3 months if school let out in May. If he failed any grade he would still be eligible his Sr. year of highschool, but none beyond that. By the time a kid is in the 8th grade you can usually tell for sure if he will be a good HS athlete. That distinction is not as clear in 7th or 8th grade. Sure there will still be holdbacks, but it won't be as easy to convince a parent of a 6th grader to hold their kid back. Furthermore, with a 1 year limit imposed on any sports before 9th grade, any holdback will have one year where they will have no place to play since they would be too old for little league and waiting a year to play 8th grade...or even sit out a second 8th grade year because that had played 8th grade the year before. If they wanted to cut it out completely they would vote for the rule proposed last year on 10 consecutive semesters beginning in 8th grade. This is like a compromise of sorts i guess.
True what it will do is keep kids fromdoing it in 8th grade without loseing a year...
The second thing that this will do is screw up thae schools that have 7th and 8th grade teams since there patisapation in 7th grade will prevent them from compeating when they are in 8th grade even if they do not "Hold Back"