Total cost estimate.....

WISE "? At the very end of a three-hour meeting that included detailed presentations by four architecture firms, county schools Finance Director Ron Vicars gave school board members the price tag for renovating all six county high schools "? $109.4 million.

That number includes about $28.9 million in upgrades to J.J. Kelly High School, $19.9 million for Powell Valley, $18.5 million for Appalachia, $17.75 for Coeburn, $16 million for Pound and $7 million for the county's newest high school, St. Paul.

The audience of about 40 local officials, citizens, teachers and principals erupted in slight murmuring after the number was announced. Board members didn't discuss the plans or the price tag, adjourning the meeting immediately after the financial presentation.

Schools Superintendent Greg Killough said after the meeting that he expects board members to have a workshop meeting to discuss all of the details and prioritize the schools' needs, perhaps as soon as March. He added that he might hire a facilitator for those meetings, like the one the school system hired for a school board retreat in early 2006.

"I asked the architects to give me nothing that's a want, just needs,"? Killough said. "But there are levels of needs,"? he added, noting that board members still have a lot to think about.

During about three hours of back-to-back floor plan presentations, architects from Thompson & Litton Inc., Appalachian Technical Services, Beeson Lusk & Street and Oliver Webb Pappas & Rhudy all took special care to point out that the majority of the cost comes from renovating the existing buildings, not the new additions they're proposing.

School officials noted that a Power Point presentation, including floor plans for all schools, will be posted on the county schools Web site, at www.wise.k12.va.us.

NEEDS VS. WANTS
John Ponish of ATS, the firm that studied Appalachia High School, noted during his presentation that all of the architects were presenting the same thing "? renovations that are needed to keep the schools open and operating for 25-30 years.

"What you have here is a very thorough evaluation of what's needed for these schools,"? Ponish said. "What's actually put in comes next. Now you evaluate whether we can incorporate all of the needs, or re-evaluate the standards the board has set."?

Ponish, like several other architects who made presentations, stressed that all of the additions and improvements were based on a strict set of guidelines, approved by the school board in June 2006, and all were based on actual programs in the schools' needs.

Bill Thompson also noted that his firm, T&L, which studied Coeburn, J.J. Kelly and Pound, made a conscious effort to be conservative.

"Our goal was to be responsive to the programs, but not extravagant,"? Thompson said, noting that architects tried to build their recommendations around a scheduling system that would make the best use of each school's classrooms.

COST ANALYSIS, LONGVIEW
Architects also provided school administrators with percentage breakdowns of where the money will go, divided into categories of site development, building additions, renovations, plumbing, mechanical systems, electrical upgrades, sprinkler systems and contingency funds.

In addition, the school system provided a packet of information to media, board members and members of the public that included price projections for how much proposed improvements would cost in 2010 and 2012, at a six percent annual escalation in price. By 2010, the renovations would cost $122.9 million, and by 2012, the price would rise to an estimated $138 million.

(Information via Coalfield.com)

ok, so how much would it cost to build 2 or 3 new schools that will last for 50 - 70 years? just curious because I've not kept up with all the numbers that have been thrown out

We would need a New Study to answer that [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


The price tag was actualy less than I expected It will be interesting to see what the SB can do to cut that number down a bit more

am i reasding this correctly...$17.75 for coeburn? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Killough is quoted in the KTN, and reading between the lines, I say that he is introducing consolidation through the back door.

the way is see it is he will propose that allt hese schools get renovated. appy, pound, and st paul will get nothing. jjk pv and coe. will get renovated 1st. after that he will say we dont ahve enough money and then be forced to consolodate. i mean seriously it HAS to be done. If it is done then jjk would have around 700, pv around 600 and coeburn around 500. all schools would still be single A and everyone will still be happy.

BTW what was the quote?

I agree that all the schools need updates but why not build new ones. It is a shame that the schools don't even have air conditioning. However, that is a lot of money to put into old buildings that will need more updates on a regular basis. I think some of the money should be spent on the schools rather than all these studies which lead back to consolidation. Wonder who will be the scapegoat this time now that Basham is gone?????

I wonder what the cost of building three new schools would be or 6 new schools?

another thing that really needs to have a deep look into is what happens if they sink all this money into the 6 schools we have now and in 10-15 years from now they have to consolidate anyway and build new schools or at the very least sink even more money adding on to the schools that will house and be considered the "new school". then haven't we wasted a lot more money? I just think we need a serious plan in place before this happens.

As one SB member put it "I think we(the kids?) can make do with a little less so long as we get to keep our community schools" (To me I think we can all see where the priorities are)

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I just think we need a serious plan in place before this happens.

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I fully agree.

just a matter of time. just a matter of time before we are forced to consolidate. i've worked in the county for about 10 years and been hearing consolidation as long as i've been here.

Easy way to solve this so everyone has say so and there are no political heads rolling. County makes a proposition funding this, has it written in black and white what tax revenue will have to go to in order to do it. Open the polls. Citizens vote yes to go ahead with refurbishing or no to the refurbishing. If the vote in the county is yes raise the proposed tax, if it is no proceed with consolidation. Easy fix.

I would also like to know that cost figure and I think it should have been required to be part of the overall study results -- at least for a comparative option. Right now we really have nothing viable to compare the presented figures to except the old study performed under the Basham regime -- around $56 million renovations on a limited number of schools and how old are those figures now.

I think you present the best idea: Let the citizens decide. I also think it would be best if the consolidation issue was decided by a popular vote of the citizenry.

You just hit the proverbial "nail on the head" there young Skywalker!! Those are the very questions that really needed to have been asked and have answered by ANY study that the School Board (SB) could have commissioned. Would it have cost more initially? Probably. But, at least we would now have a better idea of what direction to turn instead of simply needing to contract more studies and planning to help us decide (at even higher costs). I'm very disappointed in how this was handled by both school administration and the SB. I just don't think it was thought out very well from the start -- it just seemed too rushed. They really didn't know what questions to ask or what they really needed to be "studied" IMHO.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like that they are feeling more pressure to 'do something' and where a lot of them campaigned on being against consolidation, hoped a study would show them the way. Instead, it appears that the study has shown them nothing but a hard way, no matter what way they go.

I'm curious about one thing, and while I realize its crazy, with the emotions that have been shown, its a question that probably needs to be asked.

Instead of trying to repair 6 schools, since everybody seems so willing to shell out money for 6 from who knows where, how much difference would you be looking at to build 6 schools?

That is a good question? Some one should form a committee to look into studying that [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Quick form a committee on what is the best way to get a committee [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

(Sorry people have to try and have some fun with it, because honestly its going to tick off a bunch of people no matter what they do at this point. You have your hellfire and brimstone against consolidation crowd, you have your hellfire and brimstone against taxes increased crowd, then you have your people who are not sure whats best, want the best, dont mind change or paying, but want facts)

Another very poignant question Rock. For me personally, if the cost really wasn't that much different, and at this point who knows, I'd rather see new schools built than try to renovate these old ones whether it be six or three or two or whatever. It just makes more sense financially -- Newer facilities historically require less upkeep than significantly older ones -- you could not convince me otherwise of this fact. I just wish we had other figures available to compare.

I have been saying this for a long time. Have told a few BOS and School Board members this.

For what it would cost to renovate Kelly, a new school could be built to house Kelly and Pound. Something that needs to be considered.

Three points:
1)Don't think that the new superintendent is dumb enough to "back door" or propose consolidation after the Basham incident. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know that this would be political suicide.
2))It is absolutely the right thing to do to put this to public referendum and let the voters decide. The School board is out of it at that point, as well as the board of supervisors. No finger pointing, no blame.
2) It is common knowledge that you can build a NICE high school for 25 million.

Harlan County has an amazing virtual tour of the school they are building. The gymnasium is as nice as any college around.

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rocket surgeon

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what kind of school do you have to have for that? Part medical part NASA? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Be real about it all. Put it out there all the figures.
Consolidation with 2 or 3 schools. All new and modern and state of the art and the cost.
And then the proposals for renovating 6 schools and the cost.
Plus what the tax payers will pay.
The one point where Dr. Basham messed up. No real figures.
Then let the citizens and taxpayers of Wise Co. decide what they can afford and what they are willing to pay for.
Every one wants the most for their buck. And i think everyone will choose the right decision.
Let the campaigning for an against consolidation and renovation begin.
Just put the figures out there and let those who pay the bills decide what they can afford. And involve all. Low class to high class.
And tell all. Of how good or how bad it could be. Renovation wise and how good or bad it can be consolidation wise.
Once everything is out there. Then it's up for the people to weigh and decide what they want. What they can expect and what they can live with. And still not go broke paying for it.
The way of democracy.
What were teaching those in other countries is the best way to choose and live.
By majority unless it's for president where you have the electorial college votes.
Which kind of well throws democracy out the window.

Virginia has no provision for such a referendum. It would take a special legislative act, or more probably a constitutional amendment to provide for such a vote.

I would have to disagree with the $25 million figure. Chesterfield County just spent $55 million on the new Crosby high. I would be very suspicious of claims for construction below the $35 or $40 million mark. The size of the school, site preparation, and degree of ancillary facilities are cost variables.

Plus the Price WILL go up every year (I will try to find out how much East Ridge cost not that it could be done for that price today)

John Peace (BOS) is calling it "fiscal fantasyland" in today's KTN. Robinette (SB) is saying it's impossible. Meador (BOS) is saying pretty much that a tax increase wouldn't do it. Shortt (BOS) provides the comic relief by stating "...we must keep in mind the good of the children, and yet be good stewards of our taxpayers' money." A $300,00.00 study, IMO, is not good stewardship. So now, it seems, we're back to square one. We've paid for a study that really only reveals that we can't afford to renovate 6 schools. Let the games begin!

It is a quandary that the county is in right now. I would hate to be on either board or a member of the central office staff that has to determine the best course of action. Whether we renovate or build new schools the price tag is going to be big.

OK No Info on East ridge the best thing I could find was an Indiana study that that Average Schools construction cost (This was Elementary and Middle Schools as well as High Schools) for 2005 was $24,852,035 or $131 per Sqr Foot ($191 per sqr foot for renovations and add-ons)

Again these are 05 Numbers and from Indiana Only so take them for what they are worth


http://www.in.gov/dlgf/pdfs/2005_Sch...ion_Report.pdf

WOW in Georgia the price per Sqr foot is MUCH lower (Looks like a 2005 report) but No good information on Renovations for anything more than 20 years old (1985)

http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/_documents/...ctioncosts.pdf

Was told yesterday that the sq. ft. cost is in the $127 range.

Do not doubt it it looks like there are HUGE swings in the price per sq ft depending on the state you are in (Georgia's cost was in the $60 range) Can not find and data on Virginia or local schools (East Ridge or Shelby Valley) Lee was done to long ago to be of much value

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Was told yesterday that the sq. ft. cost is in the $127 range.

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Is that figure for new construction or renovation?

Maybe we can declare hardship status and get Ty Pennington to come build us a new school!

That was new construction.

So what do you think will happen? Obviously, we can't afford to renovate. I'm not so sure we can afford to construct new buildings either. Does some of the lottery money go to school construction? Seems like Wise is headed for some headaches.