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It seems like I am the only person who posts on here on a regular basis. I enjoy it. I just wish more Christian people would post on here.. or anyone of any religion for that matter. I just encourage everyone to be bold and post new topics... do not be afraid of peole who oppose what you say.. take it from me you will have critics.. but that is okay. So why are many not posting on this forum?
Not many post because of the nature of the threads that this forum has been bombarded with. Many feel they are very accusatory, close-minded, and any responses are like talking to a brick wall.
I just don't think many on here have the same way of thinking as you, and they prefer to not post as opposed to arguing.
Not trying to be harsh, just answering the question as honestly as I can.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not many post because of the nature of the threads that this forum has been bombarded with. Many feel they are very accusatory, close-minded, and any responses are like talking to a brick wall.
I just don't think many on here have the same way of thinking as you, and they prefer to not post as opposed to arguing.
Not trying to be harsh, just answering the question as honestly as I can. </div></div>
I appreciate you hinesty... and I agree it might seem as though you or someone else is talking to a Brick wall.. at least that is what my wife says sometimes.. ha ha.. I just love discussing.. so I promise I will work on that if people would post a little more.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not many post because of the nature of the threads that this forum has been bombarded with. Many feel they are very accusatory, close-minded, and any responses are like talking to a brick wall.
I just don't think many on here have the same way of thinking as you, and they prefer to not post as opposed to arguing.
Not trying to be harsh, just answering the question as honestly as I can.</div></div>
In other words, the same things I've told you via PM's and on this board in the past. Maybe the fact that another poster said it will make a difference...I don't know.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not many post because of the nature of the threads that this forum has been bombarded with. Many feel they are very accusatory, close-minded, and any responses are like talking to a brick wall.
I just don't think many on here have the same way of thinking as you, and they prefer to not post as opposed to arguing.
Not trying to be harsh, just answering the question as honestly as I can.</div></div>
In other words, the same things I've told you via PM's and on this board in the past. Maybe the fact that another poster said it will make a difference...I don't know. </div></div>
No.. it began making a difference when you told me.. really it did... just still trying to figure out how things work on here... be patient.
I think for my sanity and yours I shouldn't argue points, as you and I have extremely differing view points, that quite honestly, I won't be swayed from.
An example: I believe that homosexuals are born that way. I have arguments for this, both from research I've read/followed and from having friends and acquaintences that are homosexual. Granted there are some out there that are following a homosexual lifestyle by choice, but they are not truly homosexual and don't quite count in the argument. I will argue this until the cows come home, and you'll argue the opposite until the cows come home and neither of us will be swayed.
That's why I just let sleeping dogs lie.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think for my sanity and yours I shouldn't argue points, as you and I have extremely differing view points, that quite honestly, I won't be swayed from.
An example: I believe that homosexuals are born that way. I have arguments for this, both from research I've read/followed and from having friends and acquaintences that are homosexual. Granted there are some out there that are following a homosexual lifestyle by choice, but they are not truly homosexual and don't quite count in the argument. I will argue this until the cows come home, and you'll argue the opposite until the cows come home and neither of us will be swayed.
That's why I just let sleeping dogs lie. </div></div>
I understand that sometime research wil support that Homosexuals are born that way.... But humbly I disagree... so we do have 2 different views. Here is where I get my views at... It is this scripture that says we all are created in the image of god.. and a lot more that do not support that lifestyle. I am sure your friends are awsome people... and they will have to come to the conclusion themselves whether they believe they were born that way and cannot change it or decide they were not born that way and change it... that wil soley be up to them. To be honest one of my best friends was gay in the past... he is an awsome guy... one of the best guys I know. By his own confession here is what he has said: In the beginning he thought he was born that way... but later on in life he became convicted when he opened up and he admits to me that he fights it every once in a while but now that he feels like it is not normal he has decided to turn away from it by repenting. So this is his story and I am sure there are different stories out there that would support both sides.
Ok PacMan, here is a simple argument to the very thing you posted.
You said, you get your views are due to the scripture that we are all created in the image of God, so that can't be homosexual, right?
So someone can't be born homosexual, because that isn't 'in the image of God'.
So how can someone be born with a disease, be it MS, Cancer, or whatever, because that isn't the image of God either, is it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R0cketer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok PacMan, here is a simple argument to the very thing you posted.
You said, you get your views are due to the scripture that we are all created in the image of God, so that can't be homosexual, right?
So someone can't be born homosexual, because that isn't 'in the image of God'.
So how can someone be born with a disease, be it MS, Cancer, or whatever, because that isn't the image of God either, is it?
</div></div>
Rock that goes back to another post ... MS,and cancer are phsical diseases.. and we get sicknesses like this not because we deserve them but because of sin.. way back in the garden. Being homosexual is not a phsical illness... in my humble opinion it is a mental illness... or mental not phsical. Created in the image of God has nothing to do with not obtaining phsical sickness.. a lot of good or bad people get diseases.
Ok, you classify it as a mental illness, so people born with a mental illness are in the image of God?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R0cketer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, you classify it as a mental illness, so people born with a mental illness are in the image of God? </div></div>
Not in a form of mental illness like mental retardation or something like that... I am talking about a mental disorder that we through God have the power to cahnge. If you read my other post I have a good friend that used to be gay... read it. But repectfully I say we are born in the image of God which can mean this: Characterisitics of the human spirit and the ability to make moral judgements. So if we say is Homosexuality moral or immorral? Some will take both sides.. God has given us that ability through his likeness which is what you read in the Bible.. the Bible paints an image of who God is... so we can come to a counclusion and answer this... the Bible says it is immoral so I say it is also. We also have some posters on here that says it is okay... I do not know where there basis other than that is what they believe... you will have to ask them.Some will say that Scientists have proof that they are born that way.. I do not debate that... all I know is it contridicts what is in the Bible.
And it appears my example was a good one.
To me all the examples you gave why it's a "choice" just don't add up. To me it's hemming and hawing and grasping at straws.
But the examples I could give won't convince you otherwise either.
The defense rests! [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And it appears my example was a good one.
To me all the examples you gave why it's a "choice" just don't add up. To me it's hemming and hawing and grasping at straws.
But the examples I could give won't convince you otherwise either.
The defense rests! [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img] </div></div>
What was your example? I do not recall any examples that you gave.Yes it is a choice and humbley I say this: God said choose this day whom you will serve.. that is a choice also. So he is saying the same thing on these type of hard decisions that we make. Yes it is a choice to do or not to do.. we have a free will... and we are allowed to dictate what we will do... but I believe if we love and want to obey God we will make the decision that he supports. YOu see it as grasping at straws... please explain this opinion to me... because respectfully I do not understand.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think for my sanity and yours I shouldn't argue points, as you and I have extremely differing view points, that quite honestly, I won't be swayed from.
An example: I believe that homosexuals are born that way. I have arguments for this, both from research I've read/followed and from having friends and acquaintences that are homosexual. Granted there are some out there that are following a homosexual lifestyle by choice, but they are not truly homosexual and don't quite count in the argument. I will argue this until the cows come home, and you'll argue the opposite until the cows come home and neither of us will be swayed.
That's why I just let sleeping dogs lie.
_________________________</div></div>
And I respect your opinion but mine remains, it is not a choice.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think for my sanity and yours I shouldn't argue points, as you and I have extremely differing view points, that quite honestly, I won't be swayed from.
An example: I believe that homosexuals are born that way. I have arguments for this, both from research I've read/followed and from having friends and acquaintences that are homosexual. Granted there are some out there that are following a homosexual lifestyle by choice, but they are not truly homosexual and don't quite count in the argument. I will argue this until the cows come home, and you'll argue the opposite until the cows come home and neither of us will be swayed.
That's why I just let sleeping dogs lie.
_________________________</div></div>
And I respect your opinion but mine remains, it is not a choice. </div></div>
Please be aware that I respect you and your friends.YOu say that studies have shown that it is not a choice? Can you show me that research.. I am sure it is there but I have not actually read anything on it. I respect that but look at it this way... what if what you have read contridicts what the Bible says? Then would you be willing to maybe see it in a different light. If not are you saying that you trust studies done over what the Bible says? I know you love your friends and I love mine but my friend never tried to justify why he done what he done....If someone has homosexual desires that means that they have a desire to do it... but they may know it is still wrong. Let me know how you feel about this response. Thank you.
Did you even read my original post on the matter?
I'm not going to argue it with you lol
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you even read my original post on the matter?
I'm not going to argue it with you lol </div></div>
Yes I read your original post. I do not see this as arguing... why do you? I see it as a discussion. I have ask you for your information.. and I have given you mine.
I didn't want your information. As I indicated I'm already aware of your stance. And as I said earlier today - I will not argue our opinions because that would be beating 2 dead horses.
Here is yet another example of why people don't want to post against you. You antagonize folks.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didn't want your information. As I indicated I'm already aware of your stance. And as I said earlier today - I will not argue our opinions because that would be beating 2 dead horses.
Here is yet another example of why people don't want to post against you. You antagonize folks. </div></div>
Well I have one question.. if you would not mind to answer it? Are you a Christian?
I am.
Baptised 1984.
Okay, thank you.Does that mean you accepted Jesus in 1984?
Okay, thank you.Does that mean you accepted Jesus in 1984? I am a Baptist also.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, thank you.Does that mean you accepted Jesus in 1984? I am a Baptist also. </div></div>
Is this a serious question?
I was Baptised. I didn't lie when I was Baptised.
(I didn't say "I was a Baptist in 1984" I said "I was Baptised in 1984")
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, thank you.Does that mean you accepted Jesus in 1984? I am a Baptist also. </div></div>
Is this a serious question?
I was Baptised. I didn't lie when I was Baptised.
(I didn't say I was a Baptist I said I was Baptised) </div></div>
Sorry I read it wrong.... so are you saying you are or are not a Christian? I am confused.
I am a Christian.
I was raised in church and made the conscious decision on my own to be Baptised in 1984.
And I can tell where this is going.
It's yet another attempt to antagonize -leading- when I said I was NOT going to discuss these (or really any) topic with you.
Can you not respect that?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am a Christian.
I was raised in church and made the conscious decision on my own to be Baptised in 1984.
And I can tell where this is going.
It's yet another attempt to antagonize when I said I was NOT going to discuss these (or really any) topic with you.
Can you not respect that?
</div></div>
This is not going anywhere.. really. I am sorry. I just wanted to know. That is great.. we do not have to discuss this any further. Have a good day. I believe we can get along now.. I am working on it.. this is leaps and bounds.
Sounds like a plan then.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like a plan then. </div></div>
I have just posted a new post.. but I promise it is not directed to you. I already planned putting it on before I ask you the question. But read it if you wish.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have just posted a new post.. but I promise it is not directed to you.</div></div>
That's very thoughtful of you to post that. Thank you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have just posted a new post.. but I promise it is not directed to you.</div></div>
That's very thoughtful of you to post that. Thank you. </div></div>
You are welcome... Just trying to be a light.
Now we're gettin' somewhere.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think for my sanity and yours I shouldn't argue points, as you and I have extremely differing view points, that quite honestly, I won't be swayed from.
An example: I believe that homosexuals are born that way. I have arguments for this, both from research I've read/followed and from having friends and acquaintences that are homosexual. Granted there are some out there that are following a homosexual lifestyle by choice, but they are not truly homosexual and don't quite count in the argument. I will argue this until the cows come home, and you'll argue the opposite until the cows come home and neither of us will be swayed.
That's why I just let sleeping dogs lie. </div></div>
What I am getting ready to say.. please take it in a way that i am not qustioning you or your belief. I just have some concerns. Okay first off you said you have research that backs your belief that being homosexual is not a choice right?pLEASE SEND THAT TO ME SO i can read it. And second do you think just because you have friends that are gay makes it right and is an argument to say it is okay and not a choice. I ask these things with respect. Thank you.
I'm stickin' to my guns and not arguing it with you. (I've got to watch my blood pressure! [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img] )
Sorry!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm stickin' to my guns and not arguing it with you.
Sorry! </div></div>
Okay but who is arguing? I am just asking you to present to me why you believe what you believe... I am sure you could do that. I presented to you what I believe and why. Why would you not want to do that. I am not going to pick it apart... I just wanted to read it. I cannot find nothing on it.
I was saved at the age of 12 and baptized. That being said, according to the word of God--King James Version, it don't mean anything to God if one goes out and continually lives in sin. We cannot be hot or cold or in the middle. I know cause I was one who sinned and didn't repent until years later. Now had I died then I would have been found guilty of lost in sin. Punishment for that is being seperated from the Lord for all eternity.
Everyone has a right to their own belief. When God created man and they fell from Grace then all man created after that was born to a sinful world and sinful nature. God gives us a choice to who we want to serve. God knows we are all sinful and that is why he sent his son Jesus to die for us on a cross. When Jesus came he also spoke to the word of God. To the ones who want to follow Jesus then we must do what is right in the sight of God to enter into eternity with him. There is no other way, we cannot sin daily the same acts of sin and say we are his children. For God said he would tell us to depart from him for he never knew us. He never knew us because we didn't want to give up our sin and follow him.
I have no proof other than the word of God to say that homosexuality is an abomination and it is not even questionable to me that one is born that way. That means totally opposite than what God has taught us in his word. But also to lie is an abomination. So that tells me that the lies I have told in my lifetime was enough to cast me into hell had I died lost.
God says in his word you know his children by the fruit they bear. God also says my children know my voice, his children will pray daily and draw closer to him. They will do the works of the Holy Spirit. Not their own works and say it is God's works. We are to teach the word of God as it is written, not add to it or take it away. IF you are born of the Spirit then you will know right from wrong, cause God will teach you. I was young in the Lord at one time and anyone could probably tell me anything and I would believe it, but not now. I read the word and God has taught me. The Bible tells us of false teachers and leaders in the world, they are wolves desguised in sheeps clothing. They claim to know God and teach his word but they are lost into their own philosophy and what they think is right. They don't ask God what is right nor have a desire to.
Pac-Man, I like to read on the religion forum, and your posts that you make. But I don't post much because of the arguing that goes on. I have read scripture that says don't cast your pearls to the swine. That meaning is true because the word of God will become twisted, corrupted, and changed to fit everyone's lifestyle to make their own life acceptable. Maybe you just want to reach the lost, but you are guilty IMO of what all others say you are doing. You come across as argumentive alot of times. Jesus does not want his children doing this. You will not change anyone's mind, only God can show us what is right or wrong if we will open our hearts and ask.
I agree with you post. I am working on it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R0cketer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, you classify it as a mental illness, so people born with a mental illness are in the image of God? </div></div>
Yes I believe it would be classified as a mental illness.No one is born like this.. it is choices that they make as they get older. From adolesence to adult hood we have learned traits.. either from our family, friends, or peole closest to us. No one is born depressed ... they become that way.... no one is born anxious.. they become that way... get it? Again we are all born in the image of God... and somewhere along the way some or most get polluted by this world.