Article on basketball divisions...

From the KTN:

New divisional split doubles Group A hoops menu

After losing to Appalachia 37-34 in last weekend's Coal Classic girls finals, Rye Cove coach Jamie Carter thought highly of the 8-1 Lady Bulldogs' chances of making the Region D tournament.
"At the rate that they've gotten better, if they keep improving like they are, I fully believe that they'll be there,"? Carter said. "I just hope that we can make it."?
Rye Cove , a Cumberland District program, was in last year's Region D tourney. Appalachia, a Lonesome Pine District program, hasn't been a regional contender since 2001. Odds are good that both will make it this year. Both are Division 1 teams.
Prior to this season, divisional status had no application outside of football. But in 2007-08, Group A basketball is serving as the VHSL's guinea pig in an effort to determine whether or not this is a good thing for basketball in all classifications across the state.
Since basketball is a revenue-generating sport, doubling the postseason playing field is quite likely to result in even higher revenues. Is that a good thing? You tell me.
In all fairness, the divisional breakdown probably does serve to address the size disparities that are often felt so acutely at the Group A level "? within the confines of a given region, at least.
Statewide disparities remain significant. For example, the smallest Division 1 basketball program in Region B
(Rappahannock, 341 average daily membership) is larger than the biggest Division 1 basketball school in Region D (Haysi, 280 ADM). Does this sound familiar?
Despite such obvious imperfections, this expanded Region D tournament format will indeed provide more opportunities for players, and for fans. Many more basketball games will be played "? almost enough basketball to choke a pig, some might say.
The Division 2 teams include Virginia High, Lee High, Gate City, John Battle, Lebanon, Powell Valley, J.J. Kelly and Honaker. Coeburn, Clintwood and Castlewood "? all three of which received special Division 1 dispensations for football "? get no such slack for basketball. They'll also play in Division 2.
Division 1 includes Haysi, Pound, Thomas Walker, Rye Cove, Appalachia, Twin Valley, Twin Springs, J.I. Burton, Hurley, Ervinton, St. Paul and Council.
On the Sunday after the completion of district tournaments, the Region D basketball tournament selection committee will meet to seed the four eight-team brackets, including boys and girls, based on a points system.
Automatic berths are assigned to regular season champions and district tournament champions. If regular season and district tournament champs are the same, district tournament runner-ups also garner automatic berths. On the opposite end of things, the last place team in the regular-season standings must finish in the top three in the district tournament to meet minimum requirements for regional play.
For seeding purposes, teams will be awarded points for regular-season order of finish (16 points for first, 12 for second, nine for third, six for fourth and three points for fifth through seventh) and for district tournament order of finish (12 points for first, 10 for second, nine for third, six for fourth and three for fifth through seventh).
Take note: this means that district tournaments will now include consolation matchups which are quite meaningful.
Of course, there are tiebreakers in place for both the regular-season ranking process and the regional seeding process. And play-in games are not entirely ruled out.
The regional tournament week tentatively will begin Tuesday, Feb. 26, with girls Division 1 and Division 2 quarterfinals played at satellite sites, with the higher seed hosting. Boys quarterfinals will follow the same format the next day.
Girls semifinals will be played Thursday, Feb. 27 at Castlewood and/or Lebanon high schools with the boys semifinals set for Feb. 28 at the same sites. The boys and girls region championships "? that's four games, folks "? will be played at Virginia High on Saturday, Feb. 29. The following week, eight teams from the region will advance to the expanded Group A state tournament, culminating with the semifinals and finals in Richmond.
It's going to be different. It's going to be hectic. But it ought to be, for the most part, fun.

I can see both positives and negatives of having divisions in basketball.

If I understand correctly, almost every team in Region D will be in the tournament. If so, it kind of makes the district tournaments pointless.

No, not every team, 16 out of the 23 will qualify.

That only leaves 7 teams who won't make the regional tournament.

So, what purpose does the district tournament serve other than establishing seeding for the regional tournament?

No it will still play a role in who gets into the regional tourney.. If you finish at the bottom of your district in the regular season, you can do well in the district tourney and get in. Heck if you finish last in the regular season you could get an automatic bid by winning the district tourney.

What would happen if a team did well during the regular season but didn't do well in the district tournament?

Could they still get in the regional tournament?

Oh yeah.. The winner of the regular season gets an automatic bid.. But say the runner up in the regular season has a terrible district tourney and finishes last in it.. Most likely they would still make regions because the regular season carries more weight points wise than the district tourney.

How important are these games outside of conference play? For instance how big was the PV win over Lee and how bad was bad was the PV loss to Twin Springs? Or are they just going to seed based on how you fare in the district. To me that would be a bad idea because to me 3 of the best D2 teams in the area are in the CMD.

Non-district contests don't figure in the point system.

Terrible system then, if I was Lebanon or VA High I'd be pretty upset about this system. You put either one of those teams in the LPD and I'm betting they win it. Works out pretty good for PV though, maybe they can catch fire when Myron gets back and if it things fall in their favor they could be sitting with the same seed as GC. A team that beat them by over 40.

Who is on this Region D Basketball Tournament Selection Committee? I'm guessing the AD's or the Principals or both?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PVFAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who is on this Region D Basketball Tournament Selection Committee? I'm guessing the AD's or the Principals or both?</div></div>

The AOA. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]

If thats the case I hope Steve Honaker is the chairman. I don't know if I've ever been to a PV game that he officiated that we lost.

I'm thinking in the event of a tie, non district games do come into play.. I think maybe common non-district games are then taken into consideration.

Why I do I get the impression it's going to turn into a big mess that is similar to the all region d selections. If I'm PV and I'm getting in to the tournament I'm going to complain til the end of time about my December record. Without two starters for most of the loses and we still don't have one of them back. Obviously were going to have to play much better to get in, but if we do we can use this as our argument for a higher seed.

Yeah I don't know how well it's going to work either..

Check your PM's PVFan.

Well it seems that the district tourneys could help teams that might not otherwise have a good season by getting them in, but they're not really going to eliminate teams from the region if they're going to region regardless of how they did in the district tourney (ie. good season, bad district tourney).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BleedingBlue</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh yeah.. The winner of the regular season gets an automatic bid.. But say the runner up in the regular season has a terrible district tourney and finishes last in it.. Most likely they would still make regions because the regular season carries more weight points wise than the district tourney. </div></div>

no, if you have a good season you will get into regions.

clintwood lost 4 games due to not having football players too due to being in tournaments and couldnt get out of them ...

Going to be an out and out clusterfk.

I understand very little more than what I did 2-3 weeks ago. I'm guessing from the D2 stand point you can throw John Battle out and thats it at this point. D1 is pretty much set imo you can pretty much go ahead and throw out Hurley, Ervinton, and Rye Cove. It just leaves one more spot to be determined a lot will determine on whether Norton turns around their season after the new year like they usually do.

The way I see it, this

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the last place team in the regular-season standings must finish in the top three in the district tournament to meet minimum requirements for regional play</div></div>

will eliminate 4 teams right off the bat. Then again, how do you determine top three in a district tourney since no third place game is played.

Needless to say this was a bad move by the VHSL. With the old system, you know what you had to do to make the regional tournament. Now you're pretty much guaranteed a spot if you win two games in your district. Reminds me quite a bit of TN's system.

Like I said, a complete and total clusterfk.

Now there will be consolation games in the district tourney to the best of my understanding.

It would probably be simpler, whether or not its better I don't know, to do like Region C I believe and everyone gets a bid to regionals.

That would just completley make the regular season worthless. You'd think if they were going to do this they would do it like football and 4 teams in each division playing. For a total of 8 teams not 8 in each division.

IMO D1 should just be a 6 team tournament. Teams with the best two records get first round byes. It makes sense since there are no D1 teams in the CMD.

Again, like I said, nothing but a clusterfk. But do you expect anything else from the VHSL?

I agree PVFan, but you also don't get everyone complaining because one 3-17 team made regionals and another 3-16 didn't. I think the toughest part about only allowing 4 in each division is because there isn't a quality system for ranking teams.

They could do a points system just like football. It's not that hard to figure out that the top 4 teams in D2 are GC/VA/Castlewood/then you got a battle between Coeburn and Lebanon imo. Coeburn won heads up so take Coeburn. Then in D1 you've got Saint Paul/Appalachia/Twin Valley/and then a close go of it for fourth go by head to head on Council/Twin Springs/etc and play it out.