Let's Do The Math about the Riverfront

Pretty simple to figure out what this is about.
We have a large hole in the ground where there is supposedly going to be a shopping/entertainment complex and maybe some condos/ loft/apartments down between the stadiums and the URFC.
Let's see how much business we could have there bases only on the attractions that are in place.
Sports:
There are 81 Reds Home Games every year
There are 8 regular season and 2 pre-season Bengals games
that makes 91 games
In a calender year there are 365 days.
91.25 is 25% of a calender year.
Yes, 1 quarter of the years days just for the pre-post Bengals and Reds business.
Not too sure about the future of sports at the Colesium, but we'll toss in 60 dates of shows/concerts/attractions at the colesium
We are up to 151 dates, and that is probably a low estimate.
Now toss in some conventions, parties in the park, summer festivals.
Lets give that another 30 dates.
So we are up to about 181 days.
Basically half of a calender year of pre-post event business lost because they didnt do what they said they were gonna do.

The Businesses of Covington and Newport are very thankful that we still have our hole in the ground.

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The difference between the Cincinnati side and the Newport/Covington side is that the Kentucky side has a floodwall and structures don't have to be built out of the floodplain.

Personally, I think the monies spent on The Banks should should go toward Over-the-Rhine and Downtown, and the riverfront should have been made park land - a place to hold week long festivals and large entertainment gatherings.

But since we've committed to The Banks, the problem is money.

As far as Covington and Newport go, I'm sick of people talking like they are the end all and be all.

Remember Covington Landing? Remember there were two boats? Remember how that was the "hot spot" in the 80's? Now it's one boat with an Applebee's and a TGI Friday's. In my opinion, Main Strasse is showing its wear.

While Newport is faring better, may I remind you that the Imax is closed, the Peace Bell Monument is closed most of the time, Newport on the Levee is still one quarter empty, and many of the name brand tenants originally slated to be part of the complex never opened (I happened to read the bond prospectus for the parking garage, and letters of intent and prospective tenants included Rain Forest Cafe, Gordon Biersch, a number of The Limited Stores, Chipotle, and a number of others. Anyone who has been inside The Levee knows the retail sucks.)

I should also point out that access to The Levee REALLY sucks. This past Saturday evening, traffic was backed up to the Ohio side. One woman decided to wait her turn to merge from the left lane directly in the path of the entrance ramp from FWW to I471, positioned to be hit broadside as I came around the bend at 40mph.

The reality is that the exit ramp from the highway to get to The Levee is inadequate, as is the parking space - a fact that was known before the garage was built. An improved exit ramp is years off, as is another parking garage.

<font color="#000002"><font size="1">[ August 03, 2004 05:49 PM: Message edited by: reason ]</font></font>

<font color="#000002" size="1">[ August 05, 2004 08:29 AM: Message edited by: reason ]</font>

I think that most people dont look at Newport and Covington as the "Be all end all" but, they do look at those places as the #1 alternative as to the absolutely noplace that is by either stadium.

Many people just go someplace that is closer to home.

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Originally posted by cincygreg:
I think that most people dont look at Newport and Covington as the "Be all end all" but, they do look at those places as the #1 alternative as to the absolutely noplace that is by either stadium.

Many people just go someplace that is closer to home.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">While I'm in the minority, I'm inclined to favorably compare development on the Cincinnati side to what's happened on the Newport side and Covington side.

There is this tendency to bash everything that's been done in Cincinnati and praise everything that Newport has done.

Newport essentially built a shopping mall that turned out not to be a shopping mall.

If the same development were occurring in Cincinnati, people would be bitching that aquarium attendance is half of what it was, the Imax shut down, the Peace Bell exhibit is always closed, the Peace Bell museum was never built, the Millenium Tower never got off the ground, the Empire closed, the Levee is a quarter empty, the shopping sucks in the Levee, parking is atrocious, access is even more atrocious and poorly planned - a dangerous nightmare.

While I like what Newport is done, I view retail as fleeting. Parks are forever, and Cincinnati has done that exceptionally well.

As for those holes on the Cincinnati side, ambitious plans to build an entire neighborhood on a platform out of the floodplain takes time and money. It won't happen overnight.

The Purple People Bridge was a rusted hulk for at least 20 years and barely a word was spoken, even though Cincinnati did renovations on its side for the city's bicentennial. The Newport riverfront was useless up until a few years ago, but no one said anything.

When the Cincinnati side is finished, it will be remarkable. A combination of 2+ miles of parkland, housing, museums, and entertainment.

The plan is there. Getting done will just take time.

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Originally posted by cincygreg:
Without trying to start an argument here reason, Sawyer Point and Yeatmans Cove are allready park sites where there are summer fest and concerts held on the riverfront.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, Mr. Know-It-All, the plans for the central riverfront park are meant to be able to hold festivals like Octoberfest and Taste of Cincinnati, much in the same way Chicago's Grant Park hold its Taste of Chicago.

Chicago's much-heralded Millenium Park was recently completed 4 years late and 3x over budget. It was an ugly rail yard on Chicago's lake front.

The mayor looked out the window one day and decided it should be a park.

What the mayor envisioned and what eventually happened are two different things. Despite it's $450mm+ price tag and the belatedness of it completion, and the change of development plans I've heard no one bitching that it should have been done differently.

Both sides could take note of some of the parks and visitor attractions that Louisville has down there. Some sort of bike path that spanned both sides of the river is a no-brainer with the Purple bridge providing the most excellent and safe access. JMO

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Originally posted by jdf:
Both sides could take note of some of the parks and visitor attractions that Louisville has down there. Some sort of bike path that spanned both sides of the river is a no-brainer with the Purple bridge providing the most excellent and safe access. JMO

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The plan is to have a bike path that extends from the riverfront that connects to the Little Miami bike trail that starts in Loveland and heads up into central Ohio. A small stretch exists in the new Peace Park.

yeah...a very small stretch. then there are abotu another 30 miles that need to be constructed to connect it.

I really think a self contained loop along the riverfront, stretching along both sides, would also be a draw. It would end up being a respectable few miles long, and it is always pleasent when I am riding down there. But right now, you do have to dodge the other people along Yeatman's Cove, and along the path in Bicenntennial Commons. You ought to see the one in Louisville. It is beautiful. [img]graemlins/sun.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/star.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

Actually the bike trail starts in Milford. But I digress....

I would LOVE to see bicycle access from the existing trail to N. KY and points beyond. Pipe dream I think. [img]frown.gif[/img]

<font color="#000002" size="1">[ August 04, 2004 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Jumper69 ]</font>

I agree that, while the Levee has potential, it needs to have some real home-run hitters and so far it doesn't. I had thought the Cheesecake Factory would be a good fit, but they slapped it in Kenwood. A Rainforest or something like that would help. Bottom line is, it needs more or else it will fail.

As for the Riverfront, I agree that a nice park would have been the best bet. Other cities have them. We do not.

That said...

I think we're forgetting something in all of this. Cincinnati, while I love it, is rather stoic in its ways. And what I mean by that is, we can put all kinds of "trendy" things left and right; at the end of the day, we're still Cincinnati, and we are anything but "trendy." The people who live outside the city don't want to come into the city. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Without trying to start an argument here reason, Sawyer Point and Yeatmans Cove are allready park sites where there are summer fest and concerts held on the riverfront.

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For those unfamiliar with the aformentioned Millennium Park in Chicago...

MILLENNIUM PARK

My post worked in a kinda different way.
I'm cool with some greenspace or some sort of city historical park, but THEY NEED TO DO SOMETHING!


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As for the Riverfront, I agree that a nice park would have been the best bet. Other cities have them. We do not.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With Yeatman's Cove, Sawyer Point, Bicentennial Commons, and now the new Peace Park, I'd say Cincinnati has done a rather nice job of creating greenspace on the riverfront. Unfortunately, what people notice most is the empty space directly in front of downtown.

People mistakenly think Cincinnati has no plan. Oh there's a plan, and the plan is a mistake. Instead of rehabbing the nation's largest historic district that is Over the Rhine, the plan is to build an entirely new neighborhood on a platform in the middle of a floodplain.

It's ambitious and all, but it is a floodplain. Build the platform and in 40 years there will be major structural damage due to the fact it was built in a floodplain, and these structures seem to have a very limited life span. We all saw the mess that was the Riverfront Stadium parking garage.

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A Rainforest or something like that would help.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I wish I had kept that bond prospectus. The list of tenants that had signed letters of intent was entirely different than what ended up in the Levee. I don't remember the details, but by chance I happened to talk to someone who worked with the leasing of the Levee, and was told that someone involved with the process screwed up and prospective tenants were lost.

If anyone ever has gone to Columbus to see Easton Town Center should know that the developers are the same. But somehow, the retail mix ended up being entirely different.

Another thing that I remember when reading the bond documents was that the parking was deemed inadequate from the very beginning. I distinctly recall being chastised by a NKY booster and Ft. Thomas friend of mine for criticizing The Levee shortly after it opened because I told him there were going to be significant parking problems.

Coincidentally, there is a letter to the editor in today's Enquirer about the parking problems.