What is the latest on this? Is it still in Tim Kaine's hands in terms of who he appoints to the board deciding Dominion's permit? If so lets hope he does the right thing and denies the plant to be built.
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What is the latest on this? Is it still in Tim Kaine's hands in terms of who he appoints to the board deciding Dominion's permit? If so lets hope he does the right thing and denies the plant to be built.
Denies??? OK...
Ah,there's room at KFC for more jobs [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif[/img]
With all that is going on that way and all the money they have already spent purchasing land, right of ways, site prep work, etc.... Trust me it will come in, it's only a matter of time. They have sunk tons of money into this place already so I doubt it will get turned down.
April 1 2008 Washington Post
Dominion Gets Initial Approval For Coal Plant
RICHMOND, March 31 -- Dominion Virginia Power's plan to build a coal-burning power plant in southwest Virginia cleared a major hurdle Monday when it was approved by the State Corporation Commission, despite objections from environmentalists.
Dominion is pushing to build the $1.8 billion plant in Wise County, in Virginia's coal country, as part of a multi-pronged strategy for meeting the state's growing demand for electricity.
Dominion, which has 2.3 million customers in the state, said the plant would be "one of the cleanest" coal-fired facilities in the nation because it would have a sophisticated emissions-control system.
In its ruling, the commission said Dominion could build the plant and pass on the cost of construction to its ratepayers statewide. Company officials say there might be "nominal" increases in residents' utility bills starting next year to offset the cost of construction of the plant.
The commission designated the plant as a "conventional coal facility" instead of one that is "carbon capture compatible," which environmentalists say bolsters their argument that the plant would increase the emission of greenhouse gases that have been linked to global climate change.
"This ruling proves Dominion has absolutely no plan to capture its global warming pollution," said Cale Jaffe, a lawyer with the Southern Environmental Law Center, part of a coalition of groups opposing the project.
The plant, which would be called the Virginia City Hybrid Energy Center, still must be approved by the Virginia Air Pollution Control Board. Dominion officials hope it will be operating by 2012.
"The Virginia City Hybrid Energy Center is a vital part of Dominion's integrated strategy to ensure our customers' needs are met now and well into the future," said David B. Botkins, a Dominion spokesman.
Botkins said the 585-megawatt plant, which could power 146,000 homes, would "meet the rising demand for energy and help maintain price stability over the long term."
Environmentalists are stepping up pressure to try to derail the project before the pollution board approves it.
A group of protesters gathered outside Gov. Timothy M. Kaine's office Monday, demanding to meet with him to express their concerns about the plant. "Coal is an energy source that causes global warming, destroys mountains and needs to be phased out of Virginia's energy portfolio," Richmond activist Jason Levinn said in a statement after the rally.
Gordon Hickey, a Kaine spokesman, said the administration plans to reach out to activists to arrange a meeting with the governor in the coming weeks.
At a town hall meeting in Loudoun County last night, Kaine (D) defended his support for the plant. He said he has faith in Virginia's approval process, which he said relies on science and a thorough assessment of the state's needs rather than politics.
"We've got a need for energy, and we've got to do it in a way that's as clean and as focused on conservation as possible," he said. However, he added, that must be balanced against "the need for reliable and relatively low-cost energy."
Virginia relies on coal for too much of its energy to imagine a future without it, Kaine said. Moreover, by approving newer plants that employ the cleanest technology, the state can retire older, more polluting plants, he said.
The comments came during the ninth public input session Kaine has held this year across Virginia. About 200 people showed up at Farmwell Station Middle School in Ashburn for the event, which was his first such visit to Northern Virginia since the state legislative session ended in mid-March.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Denies??? OK... </div></div>
I just personally don't think the health risks are as valuable as 75 jobs or whatever is it they are going to bring in.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PVFAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Denies??? OK... </div></div>
I just personally don't think the health risks are as valuable as 75 jobs or whatever is it they are going to bring in. </div></div>
http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/images...s/th_Noooo.gif
Health risks?
Go to one of the anti-power plant "environmentalist" rallies/meetings and see how many SUVs are parked in the parking lot.
This plant will not do more damage than the coal dust has done to our communities. Why have we allowed our towns to be ruined by that over the years? Oh yeah,we neded the jobs :/. This plant not only will be one of the most clean-burning plants in the nation,it will actually clean up our waste.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dominion, which has 2.3 million customers in the state, said the plant would be "one of the cleanest" coal-fired facilities in the nation because it would have a sophisticated emissions-control system. </div></div>
Yet they are using a emissions-control system that is outdated? I also read somewhere that this plant will produce 4 times the amount of mercury that another dominion plant produces in halifax county. Why the extra mercury?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go to one of the anti-power plant "environmentalist" rallies/meetings and see how many SUVs are parked in the parking lot.
</div></div>
Hippies gotta ride in style too!
It's OK for them to drive large vehicles, they purchase carbon offsets.
NIMBY NIMBY NIMBY
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This plant will not do more damage than the coal dust has done to our communities. Why have we allowed our towns to be ruined by that over the years? Oh yeah,we neded the jobs :/. This plant not only will be one of the most clean-burning plants in the nation,it will actually clean up our waste.</div></div>
If it is going to be one of the most clean-burning plants in the nation why don't they use the technology that is available? There is a plant up in Pennsylvania that produces around 2% of the mercury this one will produce. I really don't see how this is going to be a clean plant or clean up our waste. I guess we could have another situation like we did with Carbo back in the late 60's early 70's. Some animal species are still yet to re-enter that area.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PVFAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Denies??? OK... </div></div>
I just personally don't think the health risks are as valuable as 75 jobs or whatever is it they are going to bring in. </div></div>
I agree. We got plenty of jobs around here. If you want to work you can. This place had a job fair in Bristol BTW. I dont think that was to lure us locals to it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Indian_Dad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it will actually clean up our waste. </div></div>
LOL we got str8 pipes going into about every creek in the area. Its not gonna clean that up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeJones</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This place had a job fair in Bristol BTW. I dont think that was to lure us locals to it.</div></div>
They had a job fair in Norton also.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeJones</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Indian_Dad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it will actually clean up our waste. </div></div>
LOL we got str8 pipes going into about every creek in the area. Its not gonna clean that up. </div></div>
And we are suddenly concerned about the health of our rivers,worrying about the health risks this plant supposedly will pose? Thanks for helping illustrate my point.
You have no point. You say there is no health risks that come with the plant? We need the jobs? What the hell is your point?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeJones</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This place had a job fair in Bristol BTW. I dont think that was to lure us locals to it.</div></div>
They had a job fair in Norton also. </div></div>
So they decided not to hire locals and needed to have another one another one in Bristol?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeJones</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Indian_Dad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it will actually clean up our waste. </div></div>
LOL we got str8 pipes going into about every creek in the area. Its not gonna clean that up. </div></div>
The waste they are talking about is in refuse piles. The plant , being new would pollute less than whatever it takes the place of. You will have a hard time to get any business to buckle down on the regs. Even if they don't to dump as much as some are saying, once the laws are in place they would have to meet the set standard. If the standards are lower, running cleaner in not a problem. If they are set to the max, the plant would have to meet them even if the rules change to favor other types of energy. I think there lies the fight.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeJones</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeJones</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This place had a job fair in Bristol BTW. I dont think that was to lure us locals to it.</div></div>
They had a job fair in Norton also. </div></div>
So they decided not to hire locals and needed to have another one another one in Bristol? </div></div>
They can't get the skilled trades to build the thing in the local area. We do well to get an oil change, unless you do it for yourself.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeJones</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have no point. You say there is no health risks that come with the plant? We need the jobs? What the hell is your point? </div></div>
The point is that the first time mention of the plant is made,folks want to scream about it being unhealthy,yet we straightpipe human waste directly into our creeks and rivers. Just how healthy is that? Point clearer now?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Indian_Dad</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeJones</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have no point. You say there is no health risks that come with the plant? We need the jobs? What the hell is your point? </div></div>
The point is that the first time mention of the plant is made,folks want to scream about it being unhealthy,yet we straightpipe human waste directly into our creeks and rivers. Just how healthy is that? Point clearer now? </div></div>
Amazing how many folks that never heard of St Paul found it once theer was something to complain about. If they don't live here , they should stay out of this. I wonder who will show next, or where the next meeting is going to be held. Do the folks complaning work at a plant that is going to close?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PVFAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Denies??? OK... </div></div>
I just personally don't think the health risks are as valuable as 75 jobs or whatever is it they are going to bring in. </div></div>
Did you get that one straight off the Clinch Coalition's site, or did you think that one up yourself?
It's not just "75 jobs", and the health risks/pollution that will occur with this type of industry are as minimalized as they can get with the money spent on this particular plant. Later on down the road, as the technology gets better, there's no reason this place can't upgrade to "carbon capture compatible" later on when the technology becomes less expensive. Those systems may capture 80-90% of the CO2 released, but they may close to double the energy costs inherent in running the plant itself--then we're back where we started. Keep in mind too that there are NO coal-fired power plants in the world that have 100% CO2 capture, and a low percentage of plants that have this "carbon capture compatible" label.
As for the mercury, think of mercury as magnetite, which is used in coal prep plants. Magnetite is used to make the liquid which cleans coal more dense to allow rock & coal to separate, and after each cycle, is recycled and used again, though there is less retention each time. Same thing with mercury vapor (though that's a misnomer--mercury vapor = mercury w/magnesium & titanium--which is less environmentally unsafe). It's used to "wet" the steel heating tubes, and the steam byproduct from that is a mercury/steam mix which has 33-50% more energy production than steam only. That stuff has to condense sometime from steam back into semi-solid/liquid form, and when it does--there are ways in place to recycle a part of that for reuse because mercury is super-expensive, especially in this application. It's not all just "being released into air and streams".
SO--it's not just the "75 jobs", it's how safe/efficient/eco-friendly this place that the operators will strive to run this place due to industry standards, and the fact that coal transportation costs will go down, helping the main industry around here (coal mining/processing) and also make power cheaper as a whole in the long run for Virginians. This will save our main industry money, meaning it can flourish better, meaning our area can flourish with it.
The environmentalists would rather paint the picture of the Simpsons 3-eyed fish in the streams to scare people out of supporting something like this, when that's going to be far from the case. If you're still scared of the health risks, then you're buying what the Appalshop's selling.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Indian_Dad</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeJones</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have no point. You say there is no health risks that come with the plant? We need the jobs? What the hell is your point? </div></div>
The point is that the first time mention of the plant is made,folks want to scream about it being unhealthy,yet we straightpipe human waste directly into our creeks and rivers. Just how healthy is that? Point clearer now? </div></div>
So your saying we need to stack health risks on top of each other and that makes it all better?
Nah I get your point on that. We got [censored] going str8 into creeks and we dont [censored] the water. But honestly do we need to corrupt the air to?
A car has a catalytic converter to make the emissions cleaner. You gonna breath str8 from the exhaust pipe?
Every time we fire up a coal truck,we corrupt the air. We have been doing it for years. We do it when we start our vehicles,as well as many other things we do daily to screw the environment. This plant is not going to do anything that we haven't already done. The plant will however put some folks to work. We have sacrificed a clean environment here in SWVA because coal is our lifeblood,has put us to work and fed our families. It is what it is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeJones</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Indian_Dad</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeJones</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have no point. You say there is no health risks that come with the plant? We need the jobs? What the hell is your point? </div></div>
The point is that the first time mention of the plant is made,folks want to scream about it being unhealthy,yet we straightpipe human waste directly into our creeks and rivers. Just how healthy is that? Point clearer now? </div></div>
So your saying we need to stack health risks on top of each other and that makes it all better?
Nah I get your point on that. We got [censored] going str8 into creeks and we dont [censored] the water. But honestly do we need to corrupt the air to? </div></div>
Geez...
DEQ fights an ongoing battle all the time against straight-piping. They do all they can do, and most of the time, it's a quandary of government versus individual rights. Most impoverished areas straight pipe into creeks for 1 of 2 reasons:
1. they don't have enough land/are too rural to receive county/city sewer.
2. they don't have enough money to install a septic system.
So--the local government wants to force someone to install a septic system. The person either insists on the local govt granting them sewer access, and the govt counters that they can install a septic system, and then the person counters that they want govt funding to install the system--it's a vicious cycle, and the main reason why we still have straight piping. Until a consensus is made to stop that cycle, or this area becomes less rural geographically or economically--it's going to continue to be a problem.
The air isn't going to become LA smog in this area due to 1 coal-fired power plant either, contrary to popular environmentalist belief & mantra. Quit drinking the Kool-Aid.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeJones</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A car has a catalytic converter to make the emissions cleaner. You gonna breath str8 from the exhaust pipe?</div></div>
That's a dumb argument. My lungs aren't the natural atmosphere--totally different situations--and filled with hyperbole to attempt to prove a point w/no facts, but shock value. You probably read 2-3 words out of what I typed--I don't know why I bother with dumb people who want to heckle like you and want to avoid actual discussion to no end.
You have no facts just a cut and paste from another site. LOL your Mr Hi IQ. Thats a joke BTW.
LOL you just admitted the natural atmosphere will be polluted. And will have to detoxify itself. Good one Dumb ass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeJones</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Indian_Dad</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeJones</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have no point. You say there is no health risks that come with the plant? We need the jobs? What the hell is your point? </div></div>
The point is that the first time mention of the plant is made,folks want to scream about it being unhealthy,yet we straightpipe human waste directly into our creeks and rivers. Just how healthy is that? Point clearer now? </div></div>
So your saying we need to stack health risks on top of each other and that makes it all better?
Nah I get your point on that. We got [censored] going str8 into creeks and we dont [censored] the water. But honestly do we need to corrupt the air to? </div></div>
Geez...
DEQ fights an ongoing battle all the time against straight-piping. They do all they can do, and most of the time, it's a quandary of government versus individual rights. Most impoverished areas straight pipe into creeks for 1 of 2 reasons:
1. they don't have enough land/are too rural to receive county/city sewer.
2. they don't have enough money to install a septic system.
So--the local government wants to force someone to install a septic system. The person either insists on the local govt granting them sewer access, and the govt counters that they can install a septic system, and then the person counters that they want govt funding to install the system--it's a vicious cycle, and the main reason why we still have straight piping. Until a consensus is made to stop that cycle, or this area becomes less rural geographically or economically--it's going to continue to be a problem.
The air isn't going to become LA smog in this area due to 1 coal-fired power plant either, contrary to popular environmentalist belief & mantra. Quit drinking the Kool-Aid. </div></div>
do you read posts or just post stupid stuff. I was agreeing to his point.
*Mike you are warned*
We actually do need the jobs. Anytime jobs are created, the competition in this area goes up. That is a good thing. Some of us may have good jobs right now, no reason to not try for something better though if it were to come along. Always try to improve your situation.
About the health risks, I would have to have more information on that before passing judgement. Id like to hear some facts.
I guess my argument on this isn't about the jobs, its the overall effect on the economy, the tax base. No you don't just throw healthy and public safety out the window, but a good portion of the people who show up at these meetings, show up at every and any meeting across the country, or at least in their areas.
Its funny to me because the people who show up and scream 'save our scoos' are some of the same ones who show up and scream about the power plant. These people want their cake, they want to eat it too, and they want you to feed it to them.
Simple logic to me is if they want their scoos, the more money the county has available, the better chances there is for the county to not have to make the tough choice, but make the friendly choice.
I appreciate the way things used to be, but things change, the world changes and as much as some people don't want it to, this area has to change or we end up with a bunch of ghost towns, not based on gold but coal.
Protect the environment, put provisions in, protecting it as much as possible. If Mercedes was going to come in here tomorrow and build a factory, then yes you could look elsewhere, you could potentially turn down this increase, but unless someone is seeing something I don't, there is no line of large tax bases moving in.
I figure that I lose the right to complain about any power plants anywhere each time I flick on a switch, tv, heat pump, etc. without utilizing other resources first (e.g. solar, wind, etc).
And besides that fact, I'm for it for economic reasons.
The tax base argument isn't valid considering the large tax break this place is going to receive. It's around 75 permanent jobs the other jobs are temporary for construction. Mines are going practically begging for experienced miners as it is. They really aren't hiring new miners. I don't see how this is going to cause a big economic impact like they suggest. If they were going to build this thing to where it would be as clean as possible I'd support it more than I do now but there doing it at their cheapest expensive (which they should) and our government is allowing it. As for people in other areas not having the right to complain, the cities of Blacksburg and Charlottesville have passed resolutions against this due to the fact the pollution will spread to them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for people in other areas not having the right to complain, the cities of Blacksburg and Charlottesville have passed resolutions against this due to the fact the pollution will spread to them. </div></div>
But they happily use the electricity that other localities provide to them.
And I didn't say others can't complain.. .I actually said I don't have the right to complain. I'd be a hypocrite because I cannot give up the electricity these plants provide.
As NSSB said: NIMBY.
I'm not saying we shouldn't use plants. Like I said there not doing it the most efficient way, thats my problem. There are wastes with all of these but the amount of pollution being put off by this one is to much.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PVFAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not saying we shouldn't use plants. Like I said there not doing it the most efficient way, thats my problem. There are wastes with all of these but the amount of pollution being put off by this one is to much.</div></div>
Just be careful to not fall for the anti-plant propoganda.
It's really not as bad as the SUV driving, non-recycling, electricity-wasting environmentalists want you to think.
I wish I could have the same materials posted here that I've had to handle regarding this lately. Just good, up to date, factual reading.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elp6n</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PVFAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not saying we shouldn't use plants. Like I said there not doing it the most efficient way, thats my problem. There are wastes with all of these but the amount of pollution being put off by this one is to much.</div></div>
Just be careful to not fall for the anti-plant propoganda.
It's really not as bad as the SUV driving, non-recycling, electricity-wasting environmentalists want you to think. </div></div>
So you are telling me that u think wasting energy and gas is good thing? It does not matter that plant will efficient not to pollute southwest virginia or all of virginia? u are sorrry mistaken cause if you want not to be heathly and have health problems then support it all cost. please. be the person who gets cancer
No she's being sarcastic. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
well hopefully she is. cause i don't think this area's health should be at risk despite a few jobs.