Nature in turmoil, wars, pestilence, earthquakes, rampant sin....
Keep an eye on the sky, He's coming.
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Nature in turmoil, wars, pestilence, earthquakes, rampant sin....
Keep an eye on the sky, He's coming.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nature in turmoil, wars, pestilence, earthquakes, rampant sin....
Keep an eye on the sky, He's coming.
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You forgot about the Antichrist being among us:
http://www.aporrea.org/imagenes/gent...ush-diablo.jpg
Hell yeah...forgot bout him...
Poor ole Noah had the same problem....
Your now claiming to be Noah? I believe in God, the Bible, Christianity, etc. However, the only person who knows when the end of the world is coming is God. Not you, I, or any other man on this earth knows that. Your interpretation of the Bible could be correct, it could be wrong. There are to many interpretations to count, who really knows who is right? All anyone can do is give their life to the lord and live the best way they can.
Where in the world could you come up with the notion that I thought I was Noah? Ever hear of an analogy? Neither do I claim to know the end-time, but I do know that Jesus left us markers and clues.
5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you: 6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. 8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. 9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. 10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. 12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. 13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Great calamities shall befall the Jews
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. 21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: 22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. 23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
Christ foretells the manner of His coming
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Mark 13:5-27 (KJV)
"Keep an eye on the sky" is an admonition to be vigilant, to keep yourself ready for His coming, which as you say only God knows. If you take what I said as knowing when Christ is coming back, then I suppose you think He knows? He said it Himself:
36 "But no one knows about that day and hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
37 "And as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man.
38 "For just as in the days before the deluge they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the very day when Noah entered the ark,
39 Nor did they know until the deluge came and swept them away; so will be the coming of the Son of man.
40 "At that time there will be two men in the field; one will be taken, and one will be left.
41 "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42 "Keep guard then, for you do not know the day on which your Master is coming.
43 "But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have been on his guard, and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
44 "Therefore you also must be ready, for in an hour when you do not expect him, the Son of man is coming.
Matt 24:36-44 (MontgomeryNT)
You fellas must think I'm a religious nut!
Maybe so, but at least I'm an informed religious nut!
I'm still waiting for the 700 years of peace. I am spiritual but I just don't try to shove it in everyone's face...
There will be no peace until after the Rapture, in the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period.
I apologize if you think I'm "shoving it in your face". Simply stating my belief as opposed to yours. I thought that was what this religion forum was all about?
I suppose then by your take, you're trying to shove your spirituality in my face as well? I sure didn't take it that way, as I thought we were having an intelligent discussion. We can agree to disagree, without being disagreeable.
You made an analogy comparing yourself to Noah. I have a hard time taking religion like this seriously, in that sense that it's used as a scare tactic. People should accept God because thats what they choose, not because if they don't there going to Hell. Telling them the world is about to end (when you really have no clue) in effort to scare them is just not preffered imo.
I feel like someone broke out a "Jump to Conclusions" mat. I don't see a date, an hour or anything up there. Just stating things referenced in Revelations, and a good tip for all. Things like this are stated in the end times. Now had ut1 said, "Christ is coming back June 20, 2008 at 9:20am EST." then I your point would be a little more valid as far as a scare tactic goes and what not.
Bottom line I just get tired of people saying the end of time is coming. Duh huh, we all know it's comming, people say this acting like it sometime soon when they, I, or anybody really has a clue.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PVFAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bottom line I just get tired of people saying the end of time is coming. Duh huh, we all know it's comming, people say this acting like it sometime soon when they, I, or anybody really has a clue. </div></div> Actually, according to the tabloids, its going to be 9-11-2008. Don't pinpoint me on the hour, minute, and second, as they didn't include that in the headline.
Its closer to coming true today than when I first posted it. I've heard this all of my five decades on this planet, but does that make the message, the warning, any less urgent? NO! We've been told that it would be like it was in the times of Noah, and one look at the world society will tell you that has come to pass.
And as a Christian, we all have a duty to let the world know that Jesus is coming back. That is not an option, and its not a scare tactic, but rather a "be careful not to miss the bus" piece of advise. If you don't want your friends and family to miss it, then you need to be telling them.
If it scares you or them, then maybe its a good thing to hear.
The way I look at it is every adult that I know has heard the word of God. If they ask me my opinion I tell them, but I don't really see how it's my place to go around talking about religion 24/7. If they accept, great. If they don't move on. Everyone has heard there is a Jesus and they can choose to accept it or not.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PVFAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You made an analogy comparing yourself to Noah. I have a hard time taking religion like this seriously, in that sense that it's used as a scare tactic. People should accept God because thats what they choose, not because if they don't there going to Hell. Telling them the world is about to end (when you really have no clue) in effort to scare them is just not preffered imo. </div></div>
At no point did I compare myself to Noah. Mik-mo took a jab at my post in jest, and I'm sure Noah had his words/deeds poked at. And as Stripes said, I didn't give a time/date. My point is that everything points in that direction...something any student of the Bible should recognize as one of the road signs Jesus left us.
Again, this is obvious. We have been moving towards the end of time for the last 2000 years.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PVFAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The way I look at it is every adult that I know has heard the word of God. If they ask me my opinion I tell them, but I don't really see how it's my place to go around talking about religion 24/7. If they accept, great. If they don't move on. Everyone has heard there is a Jesus and they can choose to accept it or not. </div></div>
I don't talk religion 24/7. But this is a religion forum for discussion, is it not? I started the post as a lead-in to discussion, not to be attacked as a (Heaven forbid!) doomsayer!!!
I knew I should've never responded to this thread. Overall, what you are doing is intended to be a good thing but unfortunatley I think you turn more people off than you do on.
Not if they're believing Christians who also feel the urgency to spread the gospel. When you have kids come to your VBS classes in the 6th, 7th, 8th grade that have NEVER heard of the lives of David, or Joseph, or Paul, then you know something is terribly wrong with the world around you. By the time kids of my generation were in the 7th grade, most of them could quote scripture from the accounts of these men's lives. Even my kids (twenties) and their friends had a good overall knowledge of the Bible. More and more I see people who don't know the plan of salvation, because more and more Christians take the attitude that its someone else's responsibility to evangelize.
Just a matter of opinion I suppose. Whoever comes to Bible School obviously wants to hear the word of God, if not they wouldn't be there. Teaching the word is great and is needed, especially to children.
I encounter kids in a lot more situations than just Bible School, or AWANA, or Sunday School. They need to know. I'm not an in-your-face, shouting, cross-waving, intimidating witness, but it don't take folks long to figure out what my life is all about when they're around me for any length of time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sup-rbeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm still waiting for the 700 years of peace. I am spiritual but I just don't try to shove it in everyone's face... </div></div>
Where did this come from? Not familiar with a 700 years plan.
Supposedly after the antichrist takes over..
Alot of people seem to have a very scewed idea of the gospel, or they read a different bible than the one I've dabbled in...
God certainly isn't looking down on this man for spreading the word, scare tactic or not...So if God is more than likely proud of him for what he is saying, it's deffinately not my place to speak against him...
Bottom line if you are truly a believer, cramming it down throats or whatever it takes shouldn't feal wrong...I don't cram it down throats, maybe I should, and I'm sure I'll pay dearly someday...
The new age, "Don't speak of god unless in Church" Christians are not nearly as proud as the older ones...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sup-rbeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Supposedly after the antichrist takes over.. </div></div>
Are you sure you haven't confused the Millenial Reign with the 7 years of tribulation?
I may have...don't know. I've heard old timers all my life preach different interpretations of religion to me....at least one has hit me with that before tho.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PVFAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You made an analogy comparing yourself to Noah. I have a hard time taking religion like this seriously, in that sense that it's used as a scare tactic. People should accept God because thats what they choose, not because if they don't there going to Hell. Telling them the world is about to end (when you really have no clue) in effort to scare them is just not preffered imo. </div></div>
At no point did I compare myself to Noah. Mik-mo took a jab at my post in jest, and I'm sure Noah had his words/deeds poked at. And as Stripes said, I didn't give a time/date. My point is that everything points in that direction...something any student of the Bible should recognize as one of the road signs Jesus left us. </div></div>
I was just kidding with the "George Bush/Antichrist" post. I actually enjoy reading a good discussion on a topic as hot as religion. What I don't enjoy is when someone (a former poster, I believe we all remember who) gets on here trying to discuss religion while admittedly trying to use this forum as a tool to convert people to his beliefs and to attend his church. Thanks, I'm climbing off my soap box now.
I did say "in jest".[img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]
Whenever we take ourselves too seriously, we're in REAL trouble!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mik_Mo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PVFAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You made an analogy comparing yourself to Noah. I have a hard time taking religion like this seriously, in that sense that it's used as a scare tactic. People should accept God because thats what they choose, not because if they don't there going to Hell. Telling them the world is about to end (when you really have no clue) in effort to scare them is just not preffered imo. </div></div>
At no point did I compare myself to Noah. Mik-mo took a jab at my post in jest, and I'm sure Noah had his words/deeds poked at. And as Stripes said, I didn't give a time/date. My point is that everything points in that direction...something any student of the Bible should recognize as one of the road signs Jesus left us. </div></div>
I was just kidding with the "George Bush/Antichrist" post. I actually enjoy reading a good discussion on a topic as hot as religion. What I don't enjoy is when someone (a former poster, I believe we all remember who) gets on here trying to discuss religion while admittedly trying to use this forum as a tool to convert people to his beliefs and to attend his church. Thanks, I'm climbing off my soap box now. </div></div>
ahhhh, the ole HokieBird, Pac-Man, Weedeater
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There will be no peace until after the Rapture, in the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period.
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I'm still trying to find where in the Bible the word "Rapture" is....and where it says that God is gonna round us up before tribulation. I must read things alot different because from what I read, he wont be back until its all said and done...and then he's gonna get rid of Satan and his followers first.
Posttribulationisht eh?
Well, i just don't see it anywhere in there about a rapture. The rapture theory just doesnt add up for me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, i just don't see it anywhere in there about a rapture. The rapture theory just doesnt add up for me. </div></div>
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Thess 4:13-17 (KJV)
30 "Then the signs of the Son of man will appear in the sky; and then all the tribes of the earth will lament, when they see the Son of man coming upon the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
31 "And he will send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather his elect together from the four winds, from utmost heaven to utmost earth.
Matt 24:30-31 (MontgomeryNT)
"caught up" or "taken away" = Rapture
These verses are the basis for the doctrine.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There will be no peace until after the Rapture, in the first 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period.
</div></div>
I'm still trying to find where in the Bible the word "Rapture" is....and where it says that God is gonna round us up before tribulation. I must read things alot different because from what I read, he wont be back until its all said and done...and then he's gonna get rid of Satan and his followers first. </div></div>
Then you need to read a lot more, because its all there. The word "rapture" does not appear in the Bible, but is derived from the Latin word "raptus", meaning caught up or taken away. Revelation and all of the letters from Paul are a life-long study in themselves.
Yes yes, ive read that...and it says right there...AFTER.
But please explain to me what happens to the people "left behind" in your rapture theory? Are they all going to Hell?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes yes, ive read that...and it says right there...AFTER.
But please explain to me what happens to the people "left behind" in your rapture theory? Are they all going to Hell? </div></div>
It is not a "theory". It is fact as presented in God's Holy Word.
"After"? Says "after" where??? Certainly not in the text I quoted.
But to answer your question:
Revelation is a book of past, present, and future. Chapters 1 through 3 describe the past and present, while 4-22 deal with future events. Christians will not be here during the Tribulation period, however there will be new converts during the Tribulation period. Chapter 7 describes the number of Gentiles saved as "a great multitude". Only those who are not saved during the Tribulation period are going to Hell. That was their last chance.
The entire point of trying to evangelize the world now, before the Rapture, is to help them avoid the terrible Tribulation period. Sadly, not all will be saved, but God is Righteous in His judgment.
Where does it say after... " and the dead in Christ shall rise first" Reads to me as God is gonna take up the sinners first and bind them and throw them into Hell. And yes i know, you are gonna say the "dead in Christ" are the people who are already dead who are Christians. But i just dont read it that way. Dead in christ, to me, reads Dead in the belief of Christ.
How can anyone be saved during tribulation if the Holy Ghost has been withdrawn from the Earth? It makes no sense.
Ever read the parable of the tares? That pretty much tells the story of mankind, beginning to end.....
"Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst thou not sow good seed in thy field? From whence then has it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay: lest while ye gather up the tares ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the TARES and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
OK...does it not say right there...FIRST, Bind together the unholy and send them to Hell?
"Jesus said, "The Father's kingdom is like a person who has [good] seed. His enemy came during the night and sowed weeds among the good seed. The person did not let the workers pull up the weeds, but said to them, 'No, otherwise you might go to pull up the weeds and pull up the wheat along with them.' For on the day of the harvest the weeds will be conspicuous, and will be pulled up and burned.""
Again...DONT pull out the christians, because we have to deal with the unholy first.
Also, I found it odd you left out verse 29 of Matthew Chapter 24...
"29 Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: And THEN shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
I don't know of any theologian who translates "and the dead in Christ shall rise first" into "Dead in the belief of Christ."
For example, different translations:
16 Because the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a word of authority, with the voice of the chief angel, with the sound of a horn: and the dead in Christ will come to life first;
1 Thess 4:16 (BBE)
16 For the Lord himself with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God will descend from heaven. Then the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Thess 4:16 (MontgomeryNT)
16 for the Lord himself will descend from heaven, and by the voice of the archangel, with the trumpet of God, resound the summons: they who died christians shall rise first:
1 Thess 4:16 (MaceNT)
That's exactly what Paul meant when he said: that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. meaning, we which are alive will not rise to meet Christ in the air before they do - they get to go first. Besides that, nowhere have I ever heard or read that Jesus said that He was coming back to raise up the lost first.
When the Tribulation period comes, man will have no trouble recognizing the judgment and wrath of God that is coming as in Revelation 6:16-17:
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Besides that, there will be 144,000 Jews who have been set apart for this period of time, which many theologians believe are set aside to evangelize the world at that time.
And you have a great misunderstanding of the parable you quoted. It is entirely about the separation of the saved verses the lost that will happen on Christ's first appearing "the harvest of souls". Again, He is not sending anyone to Hell (He doesn't anyway, as we do that ourselves by choice)on His first appearing. After the rapture, then the Tribulation, and man's last chance for salvation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, I found it odd you left out verse 29 of Matthew Chapter 24...
"29 Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: And THEN shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." </div></div>
Christ returns to the Earth twice, once before the Tribulation to gather His Church, and then later as Conquering Lord after the Tribulation. Don't confuse the two. My first reference to this scripture was to illustrate the point that no one knew when He would first appear, but it sure looks like we're close to that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And you have a great misunderstanding of the parable you quoted. It is entirely about the separation of the saved verses the lost that will happen on Christ's first appearing "the harvest of souls". Again, He is not sending anyone to Hell (He doesn't anyway, as we do that ourselves by choice)on His first appearing. After the rapture, then the Tribulation, and man's last chance for salvation.
</div></div>
I guess you are saying Jesus has a great misunderstanding too because i pretty much quoted exactly what he said...
"Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."