Poker....

my answer to this questions depends heavily on the caliber of players you are playing against. If you play with a group of people that know hands, can count outs, and understand poker more than the average player, I'd say the skill to luck percentage is 15-85 respectively.

Then again, some people just have cards fall for them a lot. These are those people that don't really understand cards and get lucky most of the time...10-90.

If you play against people that are just bad players (ie play hands that should never be played, don't know winning hands, fold aces *rolls eyes*) then the skill percentage goes up. It's your luck that they are bad players, but here, you have more skill...luck is not totally necessary if they are just awful players.

for me... the only luck that happens at the
table is when the cards are shuffled. everything
past that point is purely skill... or lack thereof.

hmm....

thank you roxy for your indsight,

shatzy, i'm going to debate this issue with you, simply b/c we disagree, and i want to understand your side...

i had pocket 8's, so i bet conservative, just called the blinds.

the flop came and down fell an 8c, 3c, and Ad. I have 3 8's and the only hand that could beat me at that point, was pocket Aces. since no one raised on the flop, odds are, they didn't have it. So i bet a little, then got raised, that got raised, and soon i realized, these guys were either stupid, or they are playing the pocket aces perfectly, so i just went all in. i had the big stack, so no matter what happened, i was still going to be in the game.....

well, one goof ball called me, he had 2 clubs, he was on a flush draw, both of his cards with no pairs. i was a 3-1 favorite in the hand. of course, a club fell on the turn, and at that point, he was a 3-1 favorite. i did not get any of the cards i needed, and he won the hand. i've never played a "decent" poker player who would have made that call. he risked his "tournament life" on a flush draw, where he was at 3-1 odds to lose. it was complete and total luck, that he got the card he needed......

your turn.

what part of 'its all in the shuffle = luck' that
doesn't coincide with your story?

retract the claws sister....

now that we have talked, i understand

lol... i posted that prior to talking to ya [img]tongue.gif[/img]

i don't know if there are any poker players in here or not, but if there are, i'd like to get some opinions....


What percentage of luck do you think poker is?

For example, do you think that poker playing is all skill and is therefore 0% luck? or do you think there is no skill in poker and therefore 100% luck, or anywhere in between.....

over the last couple of days, i've gone through a roller coaster of feelings when it comes to that...i just want to get some other opinions

were his clubs high or low cards?

edit* *the more i think on this, to many variables exist to say whether or not him raising on a flush draw was smart or stupid. my first inclination was to say (as you did) that no good play would have risked his tournament life on a draw like that. however if he were short stacked, then pocket clubs with two on the flop start to look a lot better.

so i still wonder what his cards were. let's say he had Kc and Qc...he automatically "know" no one has Aces to then all he needs to fall is a king, queen or any club. More outs.

I think you slow played it a bit to much. With two clubs on the board and an ace, you should (imo, of course) tried to bet them out where it was just too risky to go for the flush draw. However, you say they raised and then raised again, which means maybe it wouldnt have mattered and would have called you either way. So maybe you did, indeed, play it correctly.

60% skill, 40% luck.

<font color="#990000" size="1">[ August 20, 2004 01:42 AM: Message edited by: TastinGood ]</font>

well, first of all, i'm not going to go all in with pocket 8's before the flop, WAY too many hands can beat that....

as for his clubs in his hand, i'm thinking they were either 10 or lower, no face cards, i remember that part

and also, he was not short stack, it was only a few hands into it, and he had won a few blinds back already, so he was shorter than me, but by no means in desperation.

i never said to go all in before the flop...you're right, doing that in 8's would be suicide.

i just re-read it and there's nothing you could have done. you had the best hand. him raising after the flop on a flush draw is pretty stupid

i never said to go all in before the flop...you're right, doing that in 8's would be suicide.

i just re-read it and there's nothing you could have done. you had the best hand. him raising after the flop on a flush draw is pretty stupid

do you still stick with 60 skill, 40 luck?

im not sure if its 60/40, trying to put a number on it like that is impossible. all i know is it takes a little of both.

if you arent getting the cards to win, then it simply doesnt matter how skillful you are...you are going to lose. if you get pocket aces and I get 3 8 off suit, then there isnt much I can do with that....and if that happens throughout the night then it isnt lack of skill that made the difference, it was simply the luck of the draw.

however

skill WOULD come into play in that you must know when to fold shit hands (such as 3 8). in a friendly cheap ass game with low blinds, i can see where someone would call with a 3 8 just because it's so cheap to play that you can afford to try to luck into 2 pairs or something. this is why i hate small blinds because you get people calling you with shit hands where they wouldnt normally be in at all.

it's true to an extent what alison said that luck ends after the cards are shuffled, and in order to play well you must have some knowledge/skill to know what to fold and how to bet to maximize pot potentials when you have a stellar hand...however if a dumbass calls everything and lucks into something on the river then your skill was just taken down by someone that shouldnt have been in to begin with.

sometimes you can play a hand absolutely right and still get taken out....does that mean you arent a good player? nope.

so to answer your question....sure, i'll stick with 60/40. [img]wink.gif[/img]

thanks for posting on my board, btw...i dont usually get very many visitors [img]tongue.gif[/img]