Of all time. Who is it??
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Of all time. Who is it??
Always been a fan of Joyce Gracie
u have prolly never watched him fight.
A lot of people could argue that Rickson Gracie is one of the best of all time, but at the same time, from what I understand there is a lot of controversy behind his no-loss record.
I don't know that there's really a best of all time, as times have been changing and old fighters have been terrible as of lately. Just look at what happened to Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie. They're merely shadows at this point, yet in the 90's they generally demolished anyone in their paths and could have been easily considered among the best in the world. Times change, as do big names and top fighters.
At this time, there are so many great fighters it's hard to really pick anyone at the top. Most would probably say Fedor Emelianenko, but then you've got tons of other great fighters such as Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell, Rampage Jackson, Wanderlei Silva, Anderson Silva, Georges St. Pierre, B.J. Penn, Urijah Faber, and the list just goes on and on.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lb_Balla33</div><div class="ubbcode-body">u have prolly never watched him fight.</div></div>
His dad probably gave him a bunch of tapes of his old fights.
That seems the case with every other thing. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif[/img]
I'd like to hear Gotch weigh in on this. His perspective on it blows just about everyone's on here out of the water.
To me, it'd have to be a complete fighter, not just a specialist. So that pretty much so counts out a lot of your earlier fighters like your Shamrocks, Severns, and Gracies.
That means you have to look at today's fighters to find a really complete guy. To me, it's a dead heat between Spider, GSP, and Rampage. Those all 3 are guys I like watching fight, and who are equally able to take you to the ground and beat you as they are to knock you out at a moment's notice. That's just me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like to hear Gotch weigh in on this. His perspective on it blows just about everyone's on here out of the water.
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Why? Just because someone has fought or has experience in MMA doesn't mean they know more than anyone else.
Fedor Emelianenko wil lgo down as one of the best MMA fighters of all time. You could consider Spider Silva or GSP as the P4P best fighter in todays era.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: burton2019</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like to hear Gotch weigh in on this. His perspective on it blows just about everyone's on here out of the water.
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Why? Just because someone has fought or has experience in MMA doesn't mean they know more than anyone else.</div></div>
Trust me--dude has about 100x more knowledge and experience either practicing or observing MMA, both in practice and in theory, than anyone on this forum.
I didn't say what I said to dog anybody on here out or offend them (you included), I said what I said to hopefully hear Gotch sound off on it because I value his opinion pretty highly when it comes to this stuff.
I've always been a fan of Chuck Liddell myself. Not saying he's the greatest ever, but definately my favorite to watch.
I understand that Shamrock and Gracie are past their prime now so let me rephrase the question, in their prime, who was the best. Were Ken and Royce better in their prime than say Liddell or Rampage?
I have a friend who trained with Rickson for many years, earned his brown belt under him. He then went on to earn his black belt elsewhere. So obviously I've heard all of the Rickson mythology, but if you watch his old fights he was not overwhelming by any means. He had terrible takedowns and a very weak striker on the feet. Those two things alone will get you beat these days. He was very good on the ground, but in a more technical sense, not overpowering or freakish with his submissions like an Eddie Bravo. IMO Rickson is just what many say he was...a myth.
Today MMA has grown into what I hoped it would from the beginning, with guys who are no longer wrestlers, or Jiu-Jitsu, or Muay Thai, but true mixed martial artists.
There is no single best fighter today. Anderson Silva is getting alot of attention in that area, and he is very good, but he has weaknesses that have been and can be exploited by the right fighter.
One example would be a fight a few years ago in Japan when he got heelhooked and seemed totally lost as to how to avoid it and how to defend it. There aren't many good leg-lockers in the UFC, so he might be in the right place at the right time. Leg-locks are dangerous at higher levels of competition, but he is vulnerable to them.
I could also see him struggling with a guy who has world class shots and a very strong ground and pound.
B.J. Penn is very good but again has weaknesses that can be and have been exploited.
That's what makes the old adage of "styles make fights" even more true in MMA than any other combat sport. There are so many variables and so many facets to MMA that any weakness can be and eventually will be found out by someone.
Let's take Chuck Liddell, he has a strong takedown defense, and a powerful striking game. For years people thought that submission or ground and pound would be the way to beat him. But what actually did? Technical boxing. Jackson used a tight boxing defense and perfect counter punching to beat him for his UFC title.
To the above question: (NO) absolutley not Royce nor Ken was close to the complete fighter that you see winning today.
They also probably weren't as good as some of the the guys from the early part of the 20th century who cross trained in catch-as-catch-can, boxing and Jiu-Jitsu either, but that's another thread.
Urijah "The California Kid" Faber is one I enjoy watching yhe most