Ok...everyone check out this thread.. see if you have any of the same questions I do.

First the story......then my comments.


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Ole Miss tweaks fight song

JACKSON, Miss. -- The University of Mississippi has shortened one of its fight songs to discourage football fans from chanting "the South will rise again" during part of the tune, which critics say is an offensive reminder of the region's intolerant past.

However, some fans have continued to recite the chant at the end of the song, "From Dixie With Love," despite the change made last week at the chancellor's request. The Ole Miss band performs the medley before and after games.

Earlier this month, the Ole Miss student government passed a resolution suggesting the chant be replaced by the phrase, "To hell with LSU."

Dan Jones, who became Ole Miss chancellor in July, said he asked the school's band director, David Wilson, to modify the song to support the efforts of the Associated Student Body. He said he has received complaints from alumni that the slogan is offensive.

"The fact is, the phrase 'The South Will Rise Again' is not part of our tradition or spirit, and it is inconsistent with the university's values and what Ole Miss stands for -- a great public university with a focus on the future," Jones said in a phone interview Thursday from the campus in Oxford.

The modified version of the song ends abruptly before the chanting phase starts. It was first played Saturday at Ole Miss's homecoming game against the University of Alabama at Birmingham, but that didn't stop some fans from chanting.

Brian Ferguson, 26, head of the Colonel Reb Foundation, said he views the university actions as an attempt to silence students.

"I think it's a big to-do about nothing. There were very few people other than the students who knew to say it," said Ferguson, whose organization works to preserve traditions at Ole Miss. But Ferguson agreed that the chant really isn't a tradition.

"If the students get fired up and upset enough about it, they're going to continue to say it. Our biggest fear is that that's going to lead them to eliminate 'From Dixie With Love,' altogether."

The song blends the Confederate Army's fight song, "Dixie," with the Union Army's "Battle Hymn of the Republic," according to Peter K. Frost, a visiting professor of history and international studies at Ole Miss.

The school has worked to erase its image as a bastion of the Old South, which was solidified in 1962 when James Meredith's admission as the first black student led to a bloody standoff.

The university six years ago decided not to have an on-field mascot during sporting events, getting rid of the long-standing Colonel Rebel, a white-haired old man who carries a cane and resembles a plantation owner. At the time, school officials had said they needed a more athletic-looking mascot. The teams are still called the Rebels.

Sophomore Cortez Moss, director of communications for the ASB, said the organization is trying to explain to students why the phrase is offensive.

"You take back on that slave mentality," said Moss, who is black. "I know the South won't rise again and the South can't rise again."

Former Netscape CEO Jim Barksdale, who donated $100 million to the university in 2000, said the chant should be abandoned.

"I hope it will pass on quietly and the students will refrain from the chant, but I found out a long time ago it's hard to tell students what to say and what not to say," Barksdale said Thursday.

Roun McNeill, a former ASB president who is now in law school at Ole Miss, said his own decision to refrain from the chant was easily made.

"I said the chant one day and there was a black family sitting in front of me and they turned around and gave me this look like I hurt them," McNeill said.

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Get ready... here's where sports and history intertwine..... its all Eli Whitney's fault!

Ok. Their mascot is an old Confederate general..... their nickname is the Rebels. The state flag has a confederate flag on it. They want to take out something that says, "the south shall rise again" in their school song?? Oh.. and by the way.... the south has already rose again......its called the SEC!!

People always want to focus on what was bad about the South (yes,... slavery was a great evil but that is over now). To me.. the south rose because it did something that not a lot of people do today....and that is stand up for what they believe in.....even if it means going to war over it. The south was about preserving their way of life, their southern heritage, their traditions. They weren't as much afraid of slavery being taken away as they were their entire Southern history and their rights to live life the way they want to live it and not have the Federal Government tell them what to do all the time.....hmmmmmm.... sounds very faintly familiar.

Slavery wasn't something they lived and breathed... it was just a part of their everyday life to help run their farms... something that the north with all their industrial corporations and large towns didnt know anything about. I'm not supporting the south and their past use of slavery because it was abused in some plantations... but I do support a southern region that stands on what it believes in and is proud of its history and its heritage. The confederate flag doesnt represent slavery... that confederate flag represents a bunch of southern states that came together and said we love our life and our southern history and our quiet and simple ways and a life that doesnt involve a Federal Government that tells us what we can and cannot do...... and if it is together we stand and divided we fall.....then so be it. We're forming our own nation.

Did this attitude rise from the issue of slavery? Possible........but slavery was something that had been around since colonial times.... and it wasnt as much over slavery as it was states rights... and the issues of nullification of rights by the Federal Government. Our very first presidents, especially Washington and Jefferson had slaves. Washington tried to prevent one of his from running away and being a "free" person just because of how important she was to the running of his household....but she didnt want to "belong" to anyone nor her kids to do the same and she was given her freedom. and Jefferson supposedly had intimate relations with his.

To make a long story short...if not for Eli Whitney inventing his cotton gin... which helped the South focus on its one major cash crop... which was cotton... which was being bought by the huge industries in the North.....which spurred the growth of more and more and more plantations in the south.....which meant the North had bustling cities and the on the go society and a totally different culture than the ......... south whose culture was still rural hard working country people....... but also laid back and with the fried chicken and the willow trees and the soft running rivers......of which this led to two distinct societies being built......which led to the discussion of when America expanded further west......would states that are added to the country..... would they be considered free states (states focused on becoming more like the union... bustling city life...industry...etc.) or would they become slave states (part of the laid back, plantation life, cotton growing southern heritage). Then.. with the addition of a balance of free and slave states... slaves started gaining ideas of leaving through these border states to go north where the bustling city life would welcome them with open arms and a life of farming for the rest of your life would be behind... especially when you didnt make any money off it at all... and you are working for someone else. Which led to people polarizing slavery and focusing solely on it and the people who were radicals for its existence. Issues in Congress concerning free and slave states polarized the two regions which led to bad blood between peoples and families and thus the battle of the North and South was begun at Fort Sumter, South Carolina. Not over slavery... but just over a way of life. Simply over a way of life. Was it a great way of life.... not for the slaves no. But not all slave owners were the harsh slave drivers that some make them out to be. Many slave owners treated their slaves as well as members of their own family. Is slavery wrong? Yes it is. But for some... slavery or servitude was important because the plantation family was able to provide a life for their workers that they would not be able to find anywhere else... and when they were treated as well as they were... some did not want to leave. It was the ones who were mistreated and tried to escape to the North that polarized the entrie situation.

So.. do I have issues with this?? You are dang southern country straight I do! We want to take out One Nation Under God in our pledge.....we want to take In God We Trust off our money.... we want to take "the south will rise again" out of songs.

Oh... and if the south had not rose again? You wouldnt have the icons of Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, the 1966 Texas Western NCAA basketball championship team, and oh yes... most importantly...... the SEC. The south has risen again....the only difference is... it just doesnt need cotton and people in slavery to help it to rise to prominence. So do I think the words, "the south will rise again" should stay in the song? Yes I do. Because after all the destruction, death and families that were ripped apart by that horrendous war..... I would hope that the south would rise once more....in a positive way.... because this south..... it is my history, it is my land......and mr. ole miss chancellor.... this south is my home!


Mississippi State Flag

People that are offended by it should go hang themselves.

i hate how the south is looked down upon its pretty degradeing, so ive allways been proud of being from the south, but not proud of enslaveing human beings

Look, there are some great things about living in Southern states, like hospitality and courtesy.

But, the history of the South is not looked well upon, for good reason.

Look, you are trying to play off slavery. Thats horrendous. Thats ignorant.
You can try and justify it anyway you want, but its still gonna be wrong.
You are saying escaped slaves, who ran away from abuse, physical violence, in some cases rape, are the ones that polarized the situation?
How bout the people that did that to those people? THOSE people were the problem, not the black slaves trying to escape a racist, ignorant area who considered them big animals, not human beings.

Oh, and P.S.-Its not slavery if you are allowed to leave.

Segregation, Jim Crow, lynchings, slavery, the Klan, intolerance, are all things the South was known for at one point in time. Is that a good thing?
Are you proud to be from an area that segregated people, that had specific laws to keep the 'black folk' in line? From an area that was known to hang black people for as little as looking at a white woman?

Saying 'The South Will Rise Again', what does that mean?
If it doesnt mean slavery, what does it mean? Intolerance? Reinstitute Jim Crow laws? Segregate schools and public places?

So its okay to leave the Union because they wouldnt allow the way of life in the South?
Well, their way of life was flat out WRONG. Keeping a race of people as slaves is wrong, no matter how much you want to try and spin it. Its disgusting that people just seem to shrug it off, like the South was justified.
Just because of was the way of life back then, doesnt make it any less wrong and reprehensible.



There's nothing wrong of being proud of where you came from. But to be proud of intolerance, slavery, ignorance, Jim Crow laws, the Klan?
Be proud of what the MODERN South stands for, not the ancient South that was horrible.

Slavery aint **** compared to what the Native Americans went through! The Redskins is the most racist name in sports today but thats ok since it is about some indians. God forbid they have a team called the blackskins or the sort. I am sorry but I cant see the justice in complaining about one teams nickname when no one is doing jack **** about another.:mad:

I honestly hate that term "The South will rise again" to do what? The things that Biggin just said? That's the only thing I can think of, because the South wasn't some big powerhouse in technology or something. I can't stand the rebel flag either, it did stand for slavery at one point. If someone looks at you as a racist or something because you have one in your yard, that's not their fault, the American flag is your heritage and the only one that needs to be flown.

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Originally Posted by Jason

Slavery aint **** compared to what the Native Americans went through! The Redskins is the most racist name in sports today but thats ok since it is about some indians. God forbid they have a team called the blackskins or the sort. I am sorry but I cant see the justice in complaining about one teams nickname when no one is doing jack **** about another.:mad:

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You're completely right, but there has been plenty of debate about that.

Its absurd. Folks have been lynched and enslaved all over The U.S Im tired of blacks, homos, Taiwanese whoever complaining about the South and how they are offended by the history of it. Chinese workers in the west were treated horrible really horrible. Anybody *****ing about it? I'm proud to be southern its seems allot of folks stuck around for a place to be so bad.

R13 maybe rise back economically? Maybe built back after sherman went through raped, burned and pillaged alot of it. Seems to me it has risen back from it. Now lets hear how in love with the total war tactic used by Sherman.

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Originally Posted by MikeJones

R13 maybe rise back economically? Maybe built back after sherman went through raped, burned and pillaged alot of it. Seems to me it has risen back from it. Now lets hear how in love with the total war tactic used by Sherman.

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LOL who are these people?

Economically? When were we economically strong? Most money in the South was invested in land and slaves, we weren't economically strong, which is a big reason why we lost. Sherman March wasn't the best way to do things, but that's really the defense? Guy still freed about 10,000 slaves too...it was controversial either way, but don't know what it has to do with what the Union/North was fighting for?

Who are what people? What.



Sherman isn't a defense he committed some horrible stuff under the U.S flag do you hate it to? Most folks in the South didn't own slaves. So how does raping and murdering non slave owners justify freeing slaves. He had a **** blew up above a town to destroy among many other things. But folks from the South were the scum of the earth according to you and others? Most of the folks in the South were poor non slave owners. It wasn't like just because you lived in the South you had a black dude named Toby taking orders from ya.


You can talk all you want your not gonna convince me the South's economy wasn't devastating after the war. It wasn't before the war.

Most all historians will agree with the following conclusion: Slavery was on its way out in the south because of industrialization, the south knew this. Some southern states were already phasing out slavery as they realized that in about 10 years, it would be ablolished entirely. It was economics that brought the two sides to war, Not a wa of life in the south as some would want you to believe. As a history professor, Dr. Henson, at then Clinch Valley College would attest to time and again. It was economics and the south's inabality to industrialize as the north had in previous years.

Hate groups, like the Klan did not materialize until well after the Civil War was over, and that can be attributed to the "carpetbaggers" more than anything else, along with northern politicians who were relentless in their quest to grab land from southern plantation owners, much was the way of british sympathizers just before and during the Revolutionary War.

I just wonder what retiredteach has to say about this subject because when I was in elementary school, he was a U.S. History teacher at Appalachia Elementary. I would like to read his thoughts on this.

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Originally Posted by MikeJones

Who are what people? What.



Sherman isn't a defense he committed some horrible stuff under the U.S flag do you hate it to? Most folks in the South didn't own slaves. So how does raping and murdering non slave owners justify freeing slaves. He had a **** blew up above a town to destroy among many other things. But folks from the South were the scum of the earth according to you and others? Most of the folks in the South were poor non slave owners. It wasn't like just because you lived in the South you had a black dude named Toby taking orders from ya.


You can talk all you want your not gonna convince me the South's economy wasn't devastating after the war. It wasn't before the war.

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These Taiwanese and homo's complaining about the South?

I really don't know of all of that, did murdering and raping happen? Sure, probably. But the objective was to take out things like railroads, bridges, take horses/cattle..to hurt the confederate and cut down on using their own suppplies. You're acting like it was a whole Southern thing, this happened in one state.


Are you kidding me? The South's economy was ****ed before and especially after the war. Where are you getting this? That was probably the #1 problem of the South, besides just being outnumbered, there was hardly any thriving in the South...even until this day. You just said in the above post that the South was mainly poor people.


South lost and I'm glad they did. Can't believe it's still an argument, by now people should realize that it was a good thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by centennialdawg

Most all historians will agree with the following conclusion: Slavery was on its way out in the south because of industrialization, the south knew this. Some southern states were already phasing out slavery as they realized that in about 10 years, it would be ablolished entirely. It was economics that brought the two sides to war, Not a wa of life in the south as some would want you to believe. As a history professor, Dr. Henson, at then Clinch Valley College would attest to time and again. It was economics and the south's inabality to industrialize as the north had in previous years.

Hate groups, like the Klan did not materialize until well after the Civil War was over, and that can be attributed to the "carpetbaggers" more than anything else, along with northern politicians who were relentless in their quest to grab land from southern plantation owners, much was the way of british sympathizers just before and during the Revolutionary War.

I just wonder what retiredteach has to say about this subject because when I was in elementary school, he was a U.S. History teacher at Appalachia Elementary. I would like to read his thoughts on this.

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actually the klan started in 1865 directly after the civil war because the white supremacists wanted to restore "their glory" to the south

I think they should drop this song all together and just get a new one....



... like Charlie Daniels' "The South's Gonna Do it Again" :)

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Originally Posted by R13

These Taiwanese and homo's complaining about the South?

I really don't know of all of that, did murdering and raping happen? Sure, probably. But the objective was to take out things like railroads, bridges, take horses/cattle..to hurt the confederate and cut down on using their own suppplies. You're acting like it was a whole Southern thing, this happened in one state.


Are you kidding me? The South's economy was ****ed before and especially after the war. Where are you getting this? That was probably the #1 problem of the South, besides just being outnumbered, there was hardly any thriving in the South...even until this day. You just said in the above post that the South was mainly poor people.


South lost and I'm glad they did. Can't believe it's still an argument, by now people should realize that it was a good thing.

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Yeh so to take out a railroad you rape women? That logic doesn't fit. Your fine with atrocities committed against one group of people but not all people? WOW! The South's economy was far worse after the war. And it has grew since. Yeh the south had allot of poor folks So did NYC. The South's economy may have not been great but it was worse after the war. I has done better since. The South rose and rebuilt again. Is Atlanta still a burned out city? Nope.

If you don't the fight song don't listen to it. Your all for queers dancing in the streets and gay pride but your against a school song. Freedom for some but not for others.

Where did I say that was okay? I didn't, my point was that it may have happened, but wasn't the objective. Of course it was worse after the war, it was bad before the war too.


When did I say anything about the song? I didn't, but when I support the other thing, it doesn't hurt anyone. I personally don't give two ****s about this, it's nothing like the injustice you compared it to, but to say "the South is going to rise again" sounds pretty stupid and if it comes off as racist...that's probably what it means, because I have no clue what else it does.

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Originally Posted by Rocky

actually the klan started in 1865 directly after the civil war because the white supremacists wanted to restore "their glory" to the south

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And they were mainly Confederate veterans.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rocky

actually the klan started in 1865 directly after the civil war because the white supremacists wanted to restore "their glory" to the south

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The fact remains that it did not start until after the civil war and no, it wasn't to restore their glory, but it was meant to intimidate the carpetbaggers, initially, and moved from that to intimidation of people of color and nationality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by centennialdawg

The fact remains that it did not start until after the civil war and no, it wasn't to restore their glory, but it was meant to intimidate the carpetbaggers, initially, and moved from that to intimidation of people of color and nationality.

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It was actually to restore white supremacy after the war, they did intimidate the labor unions and such by killing the blacks and others.

The point was the old South is not the South to be proud of.

Be proud of the new South, the one with equality. The same virtues of hospitality, manners, being courteous, etc.. apply, but without the ignorance and the hate legislation.

Exactly the point! Be proud of your heritage. The new south has risen. It's just that folks will always want to "drudge" up the bad history of our heritage to try to keep the new southerner from enjoying his/her proud heritage.