Why our local leaders and adults have failed our children

I'm sick, sick of the bickering, sick of the fighting, and most of all sick of what our elected leaders and adults are doing to the children of Wise County. Upon reading a recent article in the Coalfield Progress that outlines new possibilities for school consolidation, I sit in awe. I'm very thankful and proud of the fact that God allowed me to be raised in Wise County, but this has grown into one huge black eye on our communities. I graduated from Powell Valley High School and I understand the problems faced with our current schools. To be frank, they do a poor job in preparing our students for college, and by college I mean four year universities. Research is at minimum, or no non-existent in classes. Upper level classes are taught in closets, where students are squeezed in like sardines. Thus, making it virtually impossible for the student not to cheat. It happens, and all of us who took a class in a situation like this or have taught in a school know it. A teacher doesn't even look over the students, it's a library assistant (and I in no way fault these people, they like the students are a victim of a poor system).

Now, they are proposing to build two schools or two schools on one site (does that even make sense). Athletics has been at the heart of this whole thing, and as someone who really could care less if the kids from my hometown wear a PV jersey or west Wise County some things need to be addressed on this new proposal. A 1,200 student school is AA and would only expand upon the academic problems we currently have. That school would be borderline Division 4, with the closest district being Roanoke. Most logical thinking would eliminate a proposal like this but with our current leadership I really question that. Those who are in support of consolidation are determined to push something through will ill regard to our kids. Those on the other side are just as bad determined to keep Appalachia, St. Paul, and Pound high school stand why their kids go to a school that is inadequate and falling down. Raise taxes, if we can not invest in the future of our children we invest in nothing. Take the money build three new schools at neutral sites, pick new names, new mascots, and lets teach some courses that might actually benefit some of these young men and women.

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Originally Posted by pvfan

I'm sick, sick of the bickering, sick of the fighting, and most of all sick of what our elected leaders and adults are doing to the children of Wise County. Upon reading a recent article in the Coalfield Progress that outlines new possibilities for school consolidation, I sit in awe. I'm very thankful and proud of the fact that God allowed me to be raised in Wise County, but this has grown into one huge black eye on our communities. I graduated from Powell Valley High School and I understand the problems faced with our current schools. To be frank, they do a poor job in preparing our students for college, and by college I mean four year universities. Research is at minimum, or no non-existent in classes. Upper level classes are taught in closets, where students are squeezed in like sardines. Thus, making it virtually impossible for the student not to cheat. It happens, and all of us who took a class in a situation like this or have taught in a school know it. A teacher doesn't even look over the students, it's a library assistant (and I in no way fault these people, they like the students are a victim of a poor system).

Now, they are proposing to build two schools or two schools on one site (does that even make sense). Athletics has been at the heart of this whole thing, and as someone who really could care less if the kids from my hometown wear a PV jersey or west Wise County some things need to be addressed on this new proposal. A 1,200 student school is AA and would only expand upon the academic problems we currently have. That school would be borderline Division 4, with the closest district being Roanoke. Most logical thinking would eliminate a proposal like this but with our current leadership I really question that. Those who are in support of consolidation are determined to push something through will ill regard to our kids. Those on the other side are just as bad determined to keep Appalachia, St. Paul, and Pound high school stand why their kids go to a school that is inadequate and falling down. Raise taxes, if we can not invest in the future of our children we invest in nothing. Take the money build three new schools at neutral sites, pick new names, new mascots, and lets teach some courses that might actually benefit some of these young men and women.

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Honistly this has become a game between the 2 sides the SB come up with a plan (3 schools) the BOS underfund it to force the SB to come up with a new plan the SB then comes up with a plan that is not as appealing(2 schools) in hopes that the BOS is bluffing and will up the money needed to fund building 3 schools next move is the BOS who will eather up the money of call the SB bluff

Proves there's a lot of ignorant people around here, that includes ones that complain about the taxes too. They're necessary, it will help your kids for Christ sake.

The BOS has to decide if the SB is bluffing.
Underfunding could also mean simply closing three and moving the kids to the three existing (technically they are large enough to hold them, since they all had larger student populations decades ago).

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Originally Posted by imported_elp6n

The BOS has to decide if the SB is bluffing.
Underfunding could also mean simply closing three and moving the kids to the three existing (technically they are large enough to hold them, since they all had larger student populations decades ago).

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The return of the Bashem plan LOL could be he had the right idea all alone

I graduated from PV and did fine in college, and I did my student teaching at PV and didn't see anything wrong with the school then either... I don't think anything outside of the teacher, ability of the student, and the effort of the student dictates how prepared a student is for college after graduation... People on both sides are gonna harp and whine about it, but really from my experience both in HS and after, I don't see what the fuss is either way.

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Originally Posted by Counts

The return of the Bashem plan LOL could be he had the right idea all alone

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I have a feeling that this is what will end up happening.

from a money stand point it is the best. But they will have to rename the schools and change colors, that would be the right thing to do.

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Originally Posted by NotSoSilentBob

I have a feeling that this is what will end up happening.

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If this is what they end up going with I think the SB that fired Basham should apologise to him (How much money has been wasted on studys and his severance since then.....not to mention the cost of renovating the schools (7 years ago?) would have been MUCH less than today

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Originally Posted by starbuck

from a money stand point it is the best. But they will have to rename the schools and change colors, that would be the right thing to do.

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The right thing to do would have been for the "anti-consoladation at any cost" to have worked with rather than against the SB.......Part of me would like to see the Appy kids forced to go to PV just to see some of the haters go into fits LOL

Why are colors and a name an issue? That should be the last thing to worry about, sort everything with finances, building, classes out, the important things...and then pick out that minor little details.

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Originally Posted by R13

Why are colors and a name an issue? That should be the last thing to worry about, sort everything with finances, building, classes out, the important things...and then pick out that minor little details.

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Did the last SEVERAL years not make it clear that the biggist issue with consoladation is that Dawgs and Vikes do not mix

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Originally Posted by Counts

Did the last SEVERAL years not make it clear that the biggist issue with consoladation is that Dawgs and Vikes do not mix

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more than half of my best/true friends were from Powell Valley, and i think at one time i was a dawg, some may argue that though

The 2 in 1 concept is my least favorite, but it seems to be gaining mometum. Agreed, it would be less expensive to build, but it would (in my opinion) be a huge scheduling nightmare. I still believe that three new schools is the best move. I agree that both boards seem to be involved in some play acting. I have heard that if the SB decides to consolidate into the three largest old schools that the BOS may come up with some more money. Still $60 million would only build two schools. Both boards will need to do some soul searching and come up with the best solution. Still many battles yet to be fought and I am not sure that the outcome will be pleasing to most. As a retired teacher in the Wise County School System, I would hope that folks can put the students first. Both sides may need to give a bit, but that remains to be seen. Have spoken with some members of the BOS and they tell me that they just want to move on and come up with one of the plans and go with it. Not really sure which court the game is in now, because if both boards continue down the path of blaming the other, then nothing will be done.

Just my take on things.

I saw an article from Raleigh a couple of days ago about a new HS down there that is and isn't opened yet.
The bldg. is done, but they moved another HS over there for a year or 2 so they can remodel THAT bldg. When that gets done, the students will go back to their updated, old home and a new HS with a new name will open in the bldg. thats being "borrowed" right now.
Imagine PVHS being at Tacoma for the 2012-13 school year while they remodel & add a wing to the BSG building.

I wonder if some of the BOS or SB members have special interests in the whole consolodation talk. That is, spouses, children or relatives that are employed within the school system and may have thoughts of either being demoted from their current job or either lose their job. If this is an issue,, should those people have any vote or how much would it affect their vote?? Any thoughts on this??

Really hadn't thought about this, but anything is possible. At this point, I don't feel that this is the issue. Some folks cannot deal with any kind of change and then others seem to be always ready to find fault with everything. Probably need to pursue whichever plan in the next few months though.

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Originally Posted by The_Sage

I wonder if some of the BOS or SB members have special interests in the whole consolodation talk. That is, spouses, children or relatives that are employed within the school system and may have thoughts of either being demoted from their current job or either lose their job. If this is an issue,, should those people have any vote or how much would it affect their vote?? Any thoughts on this??

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If any of the School Board or the Board of Supervisors have any ulterior motives, they should be fired ASAP. If they have children/spouses and are letting that affect a decision that impacts a whole county, they should be fired immediately, and I would like to see criminal charges filed if applicable.

There is no excuse if that happens to be the situation. That kind of thing does happen at places, one of the reasons politics is such a dirty business now.

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Originally Posted by sup-rbeast

I graduated from PV and did fine in college, and I did my student teaching at PV and didn't see anything wrong with the school then either... I don't think anything outside of the teacher, ability of the student, and the effort of the student dictates how prepared a student is for college after graduation... People on both sides are gonna harp and whine about it, but really from my experience both in HS and after, I don't see what the fuss is either way.

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Sorry but the college students from Wise County as a whole have not been prepared for the work load they have face in the last five years I have seen. It really is a combination of the block scheduling which does not prepare kids for college class work loads and just the overall academics and situation locally.

New buildings or pushing all into the three large high schools will not solve everything until they get away from the type of scheduling they have now (now the discussed A-B block would be somewhat of an improvement from what they have now) and course offerings. It is pretty sad when a student cannot take a higher level math class than Algebra II at JJK for example or a true hands on chemistry class at PV for fear of overworking the wiring/circuits of the room.

Something will be done and the 'Basham Plan' may be what happens but is not an overall good alternative as it will just upset everyone and not solve any academic issues but will be good for the County finances as there is no way 6 high schools can continue with the economics like we have now.

Three high schools is the best way to go yes and the SB and BOS need to put all their collective efforts together to see what steps can be made to make it happen. Whether it be adding a .25% or .5% tax to certain things so not just the property owners pay for any small tax increase or whatever is the case...for extra funds in Pennsylvania in both ends of the state in Pitt and Philly the counties with the heart of the cities in have an extra 1% tax on things to help pay for many of the city projects.

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Originally Posted by cuuvapitt

Sorry but the college students from Wise County as a whole have not been prepared for the work load they have face in the last five years I have seen. It really is a combination of the block scheduling which does not prepare kids for college class work loads and just the overall academics and situation locally.

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Looks like you have it ass-backwards IMO.

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Originally Posted by R13

Looks like you have it ass-backwards IMO.

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It never ceases to amaze me how small your base of knowledge is on pretty much any topic that you post on here.

I have nothing backwards whatsoever since what I stated I have witnessed it first hand many of the area kids have no clue how to study, etc. once they have made their way to college...there are exceptions to every rule but as a whole the students from other parts of the state are much more prepared than the ones from Wise County at the present time.

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Originally Posted by cuuvapitt

Sorry but the college students from Wise County as a whole have not been prepared for the work load they have face in the last five years I have seen. It really is a combination of the block scheduling which does not prepare kids for college class work loads and just the overall academics and situation locally.

New buildings or pushing all into the three large high schools will not solve everything until they get away from the type of scheduling they have now (now the discussed A-B block would be somewhat of an improvement from what they have now) and course offerings. It is pretty sad when a student cannot take a higher level math class than Algebra II at JJK for example or a true hands on chemistry class at PV for fear of overworking the wiring/circuits of the room.

Something will be done and the 'Basham Plan' may be what happens but is not an overall good alternative as it will just upset everyone and not solve any academic issues but will be good for the County finances as there is no way 6 high schools can continue with the economics like we have now.

Three high schools is the best way to go yes and the SB and BOS need to put all their collective efforts together to see what steps can be made to make it happen. Whether it be adding a .25% or .5% tax to certain things so not just the property owners pay for any small tax increase or whatever is the case...for extra funds in Pennsylvania in both ends of the state in Pitt and Philly the counties with the heart of the cities in have an extra 1% tax on things to help pay for many of the city projects.

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I was speaking for myself...I know what I put into my education..and I know it's more than what most put in. And, I know I had no problems in college whatsoever. IMO, it's just another way to play the blame game. No one is responsible or at fault for anything anymore it seems. I guess when it comes to education folks blame economics, scheduling, and the building... Understand HS is and always has been HS. Way back when I was in school our workload didn't compare to a college workload either. Believe me, kids now days do alot more individual work than they used to...but if ya want a college workload in HS, you could always do dual enrollment.

To a point, I agree supr-beast. You can put up enough effort, work, want to, or whatever to get by. Saying that, some of our stuff borders on a joke. We don't do research papers, read books and write a report, the grading system is easy as pie. The argument that you can take dual enrollment borders on crazy as well. MECC, and I have taken courses at MECC in no way compares to a four year university. If it did students would leave a four year school to take classes at MECC to transfer in. It's much easier and for a lack of better word the community college system is dumbed down. I had a class at MECC that I attended a grand total of 3 times, the first day, the mid-term, and the final. The course was a political science class that was taught at the exact same time as my astronomy class over the internet so I went to astronomy every day but test day. The final for me was a presentation on the pornography industry on society.........

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Originally Posted by cuuvapitt

It never ceases to amaze me how small your base of knowledge is on pretty much any topic that you post on here.

I have nothing backwards whatsoever since what I stated I have witnessed it first hand many of the area kids have no clue how to study, etc. once they have made their way to college...there are exceptions to every rule but as a whole the students from other parts of the state are much more prepared than the ones from Wise County at the present time.

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Yet you run every time I've called you out in these threads to prove me wrong.


Who doesn't know how to study? Kids know how to study from when they were in primary school and about every kid knows how to use the internet to research, they have other problems if they can't grasp simple things like reading material or using Google. I just don't see how "block scheduling" is hurting either, are you talking about the 7/8 periods like Kelly? Or 4 blocks like at Burton?

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Originally Posted by pvfan

The argument that you can take dual enrollment borders on crazy as well. MECC, and I have taken courses at MECC in no way compares to a four year university. If it did students would leave a four year school to take classes at MECC to transfer in.

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I don't get what you're saying here. The purpose of dual-enrollment isn't to prepare anyone for a four-year university, it's to get college credits for a degree. And a good percentage of people start out at MECC, then transfer, also leave UVAW and come to MECC. It's the same classes, easier and half the price.

Has anyone ever heard of a "2 in 1" before? Anywhere?

A couple of years ago, Bill Gates was behind a move to reduce school size. I e-mailed the VHSL and asked them to start talking about how they would handle it if a school like Hylton or Robinson or Great Bridge divided itself into 2 or 3 pods that might became AA "schools". Thankfully, I haven't heard of any VA schools considering that.

But what good would it do to put 2 schools side by side? I can see Loudoun Co. doing it, with their space limitations and community booms, but around here? I thought the idea was to reduce the number of schools and give kids a wider course selection. "2 at 1" doesn't really fit that mold. Of course, it will prob. keep the numbers under the AA level.

So why not 2 AA schools? Clint/Pound/Wise & Appy/PV/Coe?
Here's what I see... Closing 6 A's would push the cut-off point even higher. Grundy/Rich/Taze/Graham would all drop to A, so you'd join Ab/Mar/Carroll in a 5-team SWD. And the Blue Ridge would move into Reg. IV, which would stretch up to Alleghany. Or maybe the BRD would split, with a couple going to the Massa. and a couple to the River Ridge, which would allow the Seminole to move into Reg. IV, which would now stretch to Lynchburg.

Want 1 school? The nearest AAA, I repeat, the NEAREST would be Roanoke

So, WHATEVER you do, say NO to 2 schools or 1.
Please.
Thank you.

None of the old schools have proper sized classrooms to allow the teacher/student ratio needed to get the kids the number of extra classes folks seem to want. Then you have the asbestos issue with several of then, at least PV and Appy- I can remember them without any problem- the cost to remove would be more than the buildings are worth. And don't forget, the last thing Basham suggested was to buy half a mil in double wide trailers and put them on PV's parking lot to house the extra students being sent to the school- I just can't seem to equate that with "renovation." The best way to prepare kids for college is to send them for a couple of classes before they get out of high school. Yeah, some say they can't afford the transportation cost, but if you can't now ,what is going to get them to that point in another year or two? So maybe one school is the best idea, after all, this whole thing isn't about athletics, right? Putting kids in a new building isn't going to make them smarter- the ones that excel still will and the ones that just "get by" still will. And don't forget about the projected shortfall in state funds, when the fed money runs out. Wonder how much my property tax will go up? I like the idea about taxing other items, but I use those also, so I'll get to pay twice- real estate and whatever else. The power plant is a pretty good idea, but with the folks against mining....I saw a story about a WVA plant that was killed after several years of work- till tax money comes from this thing, I don't see the county being able to count on this plant.
Sorta reminds me of "Paradise by the dashboard lights" an old Meatloaf song where he says " he'll love her till the end of time" and the next verse he is praying for the end of time. We need to figure this right, we really can't afford to build once, and certainly can't affors another blunder like the "wall-less elemtary schools" were.:D

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I don't get what you're saying here. The purpose of dual-enrollment isn't to prepare anyone for a four-year university, it's to get college credits for a degree. And a good percentage of people start out at MECC, then transfer, also leave UVAW and come to MECC. It's the same classes, easier and half the price.

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That is pretty much verbatim what I said. It's much easier and kids are still lost when they go to a four year school.

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Originally Posted by simple man

We need to figure this right, we really can't afford to build once, and certainly can't affors another blunder like the "wall-less elemtary schools" were.:D

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Haha..yeah..another line of reasoning gone wrong...was in vogue in the 70's tho. But, it just goes to show ya that "what everyone else is doing" isn't always the right thing to do. I think PV and Appy had the asbestos removed somewhere around 1990 if I'm not mistaken tho.

The school system undertook asbestos abatement programs in the 1980s and 90s, not asbestos eradication. That means that they removed the asbestos that was exposed and causing an immediate hazard, while leaving other asbestos that was in sealed spaces. Renovating would stir up some of the remaining asbestos-containing building materials in sealed-off spaces.

Not all asbestos in the schools is sealed off. Some rooms have floor tiles with asbestos in them.

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Originally Posted by ndn_fan

The school system undertook asbestos abatement programs in the 1980s and 90s, not asbestos eradication. That means that they removed the asbestos that was exposed and causing an immediate hazard, while leaving other asbestos that was in sealed spaces. Renovating would stir up some of the remaining asbestos-containing building materials in sealed-off spaces.

Not all asbestos in the schools is sealed off. Some rooms have floor tiles with asbestos in them.

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Bingo...so cutting the floor to expand a room or put anything in the floor is going to cause problems.

When I was in 7th grade they did that asbestos work in the now-demolished 7th grade wing at Pound while we still attended classes in the same building.
Didn't seem so safe, even to 13 year olds.

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Originally Posted by imported_elp6n

When I was in 7th grade they did that asbestos work in the now-demolished 7th grade wing at Pound while we still attended classes in the same building.
Didn't seem so safe, even to 13 year olds.

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They stated PV in the summer and finished in the fall...we walked by it every day going to lunch.

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Originally Posted by pvfan

That is pretty much verbatim what I said. It's much easier and kids are still lost when they go to a four year school.

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When I was in HS, they didn't even offer dual enrollment..all they had was AP..so coming out of HS, I had no college credit. I started at MECC tho and then transferred to UVA-Wise..and really, I didn't think CVC was any harder than MECC..I actually learned as much at MECC as I did at Wise. Like I said before tho, I have no complaints about my education from PV or MECC either one.

I'm about tired of this subject because it appears to be so argued out, there is no points you can make anymore. I'll go against my better judgement and post another rant.

I know I never took a study hall in high school. I took 7 classes each year, I think I set a record at that time for credits earned on graduation. There wasn't a lot of AP classes, I think we had 2 available then. I was ahead of the curve and took the SAT in 6th grade or something because I had a perfect SRA test (verbal I think which is scary since my language skills have gotten 10 times worse). I was able to never study, never crack a book, show up now and then, and pretty much ace any test. I wasn't that smart, I just had a grandmother who was a teacher and she started my education when I was young, so I was reading at a pretty good level when I started school. I could not pay attention directly but still know what was going on by just being in the room.

I know this, when I went to college, I was behind. Not so much on my ability as much as I had no study skills, I had no ability to no how to push myself because I was never pushed. If you had to work hard in school, then you probably did ok in college but I know I wasn't alone. Out of probably 10-15 people out of my class who went to a 4 year college out of the gate (estimate), I think most either flunked out or quit. And since we're talking about people who went out of the gate to school, they weren't the slow learners either, they just went from an environment where they could coast, to an enviroment where they couldn't.

Why do you think nobody, or nearly nobody, outside of science majors take a science class at CVC or UVA-Wise? Because they have nothing that resembles real labs, nothing that resembles any real study. Why do you think a large percentage of our local kids go and take a below 100 level English or Math class? Those aren't imaginary numbers too, those have been given before by the college. It's not that nobody from our local schools can go there and make it, it's just that the normal way of having success is being pushed earlier in schools. In my opinion, block scheduling and the stupid tests they do now make it that much worse as teachers can't teach. They have to push in a few facts and have people spit it back out. One of the funniest ones I can remember hearing fairly recently was a parent asking their child about George Washington, and the kid could only tell you what they had to know for a test, but nothing else.

So if you were on top of the game in college, congrats. Be proud that you were an exception. No, building new school buildings is not going to fix things. Hopefully though, and I know its a freaking longshot, the areas fix the system, not just from the buildings but down to the way they educate.

It was summed up nicely awhile back when the talk was that 'not every kid is going to college'. There has never been a more accurate statement but the problem is the system is set up to make sure the weakest survive and dumb it down for them to get out the door. It's not set up to push the top ones to be even better and challenge them.

Put it to the wonderful world of athletics. Complaints were made here about kellys schedule and how it wasn't right for them to be rewarded for playing cupcakes and make it while PV had played tough competition and might not make the playoffs. Some of the same people who couldn't help but complain about the system benefiting the ones who play bad teams are the same ones who are happy as a lark to have the education system benefit the ones playing the weaker schedule.

I took one satellite class at UVA-Wise. An advanced finance class taught by a professor at UVA. Most of us were upper level students, a lot of seniors ready to graduate with accounting or economic degrees. We were so freaking far behind that we couldn't even have intelligent discussions. These were people who were on the Dean's list all the time at the college, and some who probably never even had to study there. More than a few dropped the class and gave up. A few toughed it out and tried to push ourselves just to sneak out of the class without failing but it took more work than I had ever had to give to a class. I think we had 2 people pass, while nearly every person there, who had been challenged before, passed. That's not an isolated example either.

No, new buildings are not going to make everything better, but consolidate your resources and reward excellence, not mediocrity. Or do like we complain about on the athletic field, nobody around here is going to win because nobody is pushed, everybody is soft. After all, why should it be different on the field when we don't want to fix it in the classrooms.

Excellent post, my friend. Most students do not know how to study and that is one of the main ingredients to being successful. I know I didn't in high school and didn't try much anyway. Did okay in high school but could have done much better. Someone made a statement earlier that kids knew how to study. No, they don't because the majority of them have never had to push themselves. I love sports, but we must get beyond the mentality of once a --------, always a -------. Well, I was once a Big Stone Gap Buccaneer, but then became a Powell Valley Viking. Began my teaching career at Appy in 1969, taught at St. Paul, Coeburn, and then for the last 22 years of my career taught at Wise. That gave me a pretty well rounded view of being other things besides a Viking. By the way, I always pulled for the team where I was teaching. Only proper thing to do. I now have no horse in the race, but I mainly support PV, but enjoy seeing others as well. The point is, I got over being a Viking, so folks get over it. Sports is not the most important thing in high school. I had to say a few words about a classmate this summer who had died just days before he was to speak at PV and also he was going to have a concert. I was scheduled to introduce him. Well instead of that, I had to say a few words about him. His name was Larry Dalton and he went to Oral Roberts University out of high school on a music scholorship and I went to CVC on my own. The jest of what I said was, "My football got me some crazy knees and some other aches and pains now, but his piano playing took him all over the world. Which was the better path? Well, I had no musical skills, but I did enjoy sports. Get over it and lets move on for the betterment of the students and Wise County Schools.

Great post by you both. I myself was coaster in HS and paid dearly for it in college. My study habits were terrible.

Very good interpetation.

Why are people bringing all this crap back from the dead? I know there were zombie movies on all last month but dang.

In any high school only a small percentage of the students go on to college, most of those have made the decision early on and work towards that goal all through school. The remainder of the students opt for a techinal career and the rest go with "whatever comes up". That what makes the american economy, if everyone went to college who would fix your car, heat pump, plumbing, electricity, bag your groceries, mine coal and so forth. Those that want to go to college will most always excell in school to reach that goal. The ideal that "buildings" will help people go on to college is misplaced. In this day of "virtual" learning, evrything is available to everyone who will seek it out. Core basics and technical traing are as important as advanced courses. If everyone is a college professor or a business major, who you gonna call when the lights go out?

Weeellllllllllll, the world needs ditch diggers too! -Judge Smails