7 minutes in against UNC and all I can say is wow.
UK may not win, but just wow for John Wall.
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7 minutes in against UNC and all I can say is wow.
UK may not win, but just wow for John Wall.
UK wins 68-66.
If that's a "wow game", you must not watch a lot of basketball. Looks like UK is going to scrap together a win here, Wall was ****ing away possessions in the last 5 minutes more than anyone else on the court, yeah wow. This team would floor me if they were to end up in the Final Four, they're nowhere's near as good as I thought they'd be. As for UNC, they're better than I thought they'd be going down that much and keeping cool to be as young as they are, cut the turnovers down and there's only a few teams that could beat them. Can't wait to see what they'll be doing next year and esp. the year after.
a. its december it was a good win
b. if you dont see the "wow" he is talking about in how wall is playing, then your future statements should be null and void for ignorance. wall is still learning the college game, made amazing at times, at other times tried to make it amazing, when he settles down, he will start to take it to the next level.
He's going to be there for this season, there's no settling down, there's not going to be this dramatic change in his game. He dribbled the shot clock all the way down and tried to make something out of nothing about 3 times, sorry, but driving to the rim and trying to through layups from your waist isn't going to cut it. Hype him up all you want, better hurry though, guess you'd have to since he's using your school as a hotel/gym until the draft.
dont be mad that Wall embarrassed UNC today.
Wall was no doubt the best player on the court.
You can hate all you want, but its just that, unfounded hate.
Uh wow just wow. And not Wall, just the comments. Wow
A two point loss to a #5 team is embarrassing? LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Biggin
What did I say about Wall that wasn't true? Seriously what? The guy had SEVEN TURNOVERS today. Nothing I said wasn't true, there wasn't any blind hate. He's impressive, that's a given, this team isn't though and there's not going to be any title this year. Just get's old hearing about him, it's worse than the Greg Oden ****, he'll be gone soon enough like him and I won't have to hear about it.
See, your hatred of UK is blinding you.
Wall could be the best G in the country, and Patterson has proven to be a dominant low post player.
If UK aint a Final Four team, who is?
Ive saw all the top 10 play this year, and aside from Kansas, UK is as good as any other team.
UK doesn't bother that much, the constant talk about Wall and Calipari is what is annoying.
Patterson had a better game than Wall today, he was consistent and made big plays, he had more of a "wow game" than anyone. He's good, but let's be realistic, he gave UNC several chances to take this game. UK just didn't impress me, they collapsed in the second half, they won't be in the Finals...I really don't see them as a Final 4 team or on the same level as the other top teams, they'd get crushed if they played them like they played against a very young UNC team today.
You gotta remember, this team starts 3 frosh, and its still really early.
by the end of the season, the kids should be used to playing big time ball and perform better at teh end.
and its not like UNC is a scrub team, they have tons of talent.
Dude if you read the OP you would see that I said "in the first 7 minutes" not the whole game.
UNC jumped out to a 9-2 lead, then Wall basically took over and UK went on a something like a 20-2 run and lead at the half by 15 or so.
Early in the second half Wall left the court with cramps and had to go back for an IV. That is the only reason UNC made it a game. Props to UNC for fighting back though.
The reason I'm so impressed with Wall is because he has played 8 games and he is the clear leader of this team, and it was very apparent during his absence.
A few quotes from Roy Williams after the game and one from Larry Drew II.
Roy Williams:
"In Roy Williams' coaching time, he's the best point guard out of high school since Jason Kidd," said North Carolina's Roy Williams,
"I recruited Jason Kidd after the '91 Final Four, so that's [18-19 years]," Williams said. "He's 6-4, he's got blazing speed and he's going to be a vicious defender. He will start stealing the ball two or three times a game. His biggest weakness is his outside shot. What's the easiest thing to change? Your outside shot."
"He's so athletic," Williams said. "I just think he has a sense of when to push it and he thinks like a point guard. He knows when to slow it down, to get them into a set. He's the best point guard since Jason."
Larry Drew II:
"He's so good in the open court," Drew II said. "He can do just about anything he wants in the open court. Our game plan was to build a wall around him once he got the ball, but he got out in the open court and got a lot of fast-break points going one-on-one. He's hard to stop when it's you and him in the open court."
Andy Katz: John Wall shines in first big test - ESPN
John Wall is easily the most talented PG in the nation right now. He may very well be the #1 pick in next year's draft (Nets?).
I haven't seen anyone with the size, speed and body control like John Wall. Derrick Rose had the size and the speed, but Wall's body control in unmatched.
With that said, here's why UK won't be in the Final Four. UK is really young and it's easy for them to get hyped about playing UNC, but how about a first or second round team in March? They've shown early that they can let teams stay in the game...they just haven't played anyone who could make them pay for it.
You even saw some of it today, they go on a 26-2 run and then jack up some bad shots and turn the ball over 9 times in 12 minutes and allow UNC back in the game, UNC was just too far behind. On a neutral floor, I can't say that I'm certain UK would have even won the game, though they were clearly the better team.
Don't take this as an ACC homer, because I don't think UNC is even an Elite 8 type of team. They're also young and forced WAY too much early.
As a side note, I was pretty disappointed in the adjustments (or lackthereof) to Calipari's dribble drive motion...if you're going to defend someone like Wall and Bledsoe in the DDM, you HAVE to go under all ball screens and have the screen defender flatten and get his teammate through...if you get caught on a ballscreen in the DDM, the ballhandler is running downhill with numbers in what is essentially a fast break...UK got a bunch of 3's during their run early in the game because of this. UNC switched and went to a zone, but that's only going to patch the problem and not cure it
on the other hand UK had a great gameplan against UNC that I think you'll see a lot of teams use from here on out. UK dug down and sunk ballside help defenders on UNC's post to negate their obvious strength on the inside. Every time Ed Davis, Deon Thompson or John Henson got it inside there were at least 2 defenders digging at the ball forcing UNC to kick it out....UNC was impatient and started to jack up contested jumpers due to a lack of an inside game and it made them fall deeper in the hole...Zeller did a good job in the second half of making his move early and quick before secondary defenders got to him and it caused UK to slowly start playing out of position away from the ball, which freed up some shooters and cuts down the lane
I'll quit there, I could talk for hours about it...but it was an excellent game to watch...only one I'd like to break down more would be UK-Kansas
The Nets will probably end up with the #1 pick, but do you really think they will take a PG?
That is maybe the only position they are really set on.
I could see them trading the #1 for a top 5 pick and another player.
John Wall's game against NC was clearly a tale of two halves. He was clearly not as effective after he came back from the cramps. Now Eric Bledsoe's only saving grace was his ability to hit his free throws down the stretch. Before that, he was going to the basket out of control....he also missed a wide open path to the basket late in the game. They have another big test coming up tomorrow on the neutral floor, UConn.
OH PUHLEAZE!!!!Quote:
UK doesn't bother that much, the constant talk about Wall and Calipari is what is annoying.
This coming from the guy who worshipped Hansblow & Roy-Boy as much as UF fans worship Sperman Cryer & Timmay! Tebag. Gimme a break.
We put up with you singing the praises of Hansblow since you joined this board, you can deal with one year of people saying Wall's a **** good player, especially since it's more true for him than Hansblow. I'd wager a pretty penny that Wall will not only get drafted higher next year than Hansblow did (13th), but that he'll start almost immediately and have a better NBA career than the blinkless dog-rescuing anointed one.
You're bitter b/c UNC dropped that game, and your response is to deny that a dude as talented as Wall has some major ability and talent? You're nuts and in denial.
lmao at all your unc hate
Hansborough performed, all-time leading scorer of the ACC and a title. And Roy isn't up for debate, you really comparing him to Calipari? The guy that has done nothing but get his appearances taken away. Thing is, both Hansborough and Roy could be praised last year and lived up to everything that they were supposed to...on the other hand, Calipari had done nothing and Wall hadn't played one minute in a game, but both were being crowned as some kind of all-time greats or something. Yeah, really, give me a break. I'm not too fond of 1 and done players, well not as much as the ones who get so high on them when they are using their team as a place to practice because of the rule.
Here's the NBA argument, waiting for it. I don't care if Hansborough got drafted dead-last last draft, unless he's going to the Suns, I don't care the least bit. I'm not a Pacers fan, not a Nuggets fan with Lawson either, I don't care and it has nothing to do with college ball right now. If he does #1, good for him, hand-clap for Wall. It's what (insert player) is doing for UNC RIGHT NOW and what (insert player) is doing for the Suns RIGHT NOW....I don't give two ****s what Hansborough is doing for the Pacers, what Ed Davis and Deon Thompson or any UNC player does in the NBA unless they go to my team in the NBA.
Where did I deny him? What did I say about his abilities? I talked about what happened in that game, which every single bit of it was true, what part wasn't? I'd talk about bitter, with the Hansborough rant, guess it's because he went 4-0 at Cameron.
Some talk about UNC being young this year. Well ,the top 7 in minutes played were:
Ginyard RS SR 37 min.; Davis SO 34 min.; DrewII SO 25 min.; Thompson SR 24 min.; Graves RS JR 20 min.; Strickland FR 16 min.; Zeller SO 14 min.
UK had 3 FR, 1 SO, and a JR playing the dominant minutes with a SR Harris, FR Orton, and a SO Dodson getting the next most minutes.
UNC doesn't look like an inexperienced team to me. Less talented maybe, but not less experienced.
No UNC hate in that post man...look carefully. I don't like Roy-Boy (since his Kansas days), and I never liked all of the media sucking-off that Hansblow got. I find it ironic that someone who defended both guys and the multitude of attention they got is complaining about Wall/Calipari.Quote:
Originally Posted by burton2019
Give Calipari/Wall the same opportunity to live up to all the praise & hype that Roy-Boy/Hansblow got. If they live up to it, then you should STFU.Quote:
Thing is, both Hansborough and Roy could be praised last year and lived up to everything that they were supposed to...on the other hand, Calipari had done nothing and Wall hadn't played one minute in a game, but both were being crowned as some kind of all-time greats or something.
There's the key to the story. What if Wall had used UNC as his practice ground? You'd have 10 threads talking about how great he is and how Roy-Boy was the best coach ever for landing him at UNC...and you know that's the 1000% truth.Quote:
I'm not too fond of 1 and done players
I call BS. You don't spend 4 years with your head in Hansblow's lap via posts bragging about him on here and not care about what he does in the NBA. If you're a fan of a program, you want the players that come out of your program to be successful on the next level...it's common sense. To try to play it off like you don't care is weak. If that's actually the case tho, then I don't want to hear you as a UNC fan brag about Jordan and his NBA career ever again...and admit it--you loved it when Jordan was beating the Suns in the Finals back in 1993, if you're old enough to remember.Quote:
Here's the NBA argument, waiting for it. I don't care if Hansborough got drafted dead-last last draft, unless he's going to the Suns, I don't care the least bit. I'm not a Pacers fan, not a Nuggets fan with Lawson either, I don't care and it has nothing to do with college ball right now. If he does #1, good for him, hand-clap for Wall. It's what (insert player) is doing for UNC RIGHT NOW and what (insert player) is doing for the Suns RIGHT NOW....I don't give two ****s what Hansborough is doing for the Pacers, what Ed Davis and Deon Thompson or any UNC player does in the NBA unless they go to my team in the NBA.
I hope all the bad things in life happen to Hansblow and only Hansblow--I've never hid that on here at all. As for what you said regarding Wall, you're already trying to compare him to Greg Oden b/c he had 7 turnovers and STILL beat UNC at Rupp? If that ain't hatin on a guy just to be hatin...I dunno what is. It's obvious.Quote:
Where did I deny him? What did I say about his abilities? I talked about what happened in that game, which every single bit of it was true, what part wasn't? I'd talk about bitter, with the Hansborough rant, guess it's because he went 4-0 at Cameron.
John Calapari is 10x the coach Roy Williams is.
Williams has the best players in the nation, and it took two all-world teams full of NBA picks to win a title.
Cal has taken UMASS, Memphis to the Final Four, a Memphis team to the NC game, with one first round draft pick, when it took Roy Williams FOUR NBA draft picks on one starting team, and THREE NBA picks on the next to win titles.
John Wall is 10x the player Hansborough is, Cane is right, you always gave TH tons of praise for being a great player, yet you refuse to see that Wall, who is a better basketball player Hansborough, is the real deal.
OK, you dont like one and done; what about John Henson. He will probably go to the NBA next year, what is your opinion of him?
This isnt a UNC hate thing either, im not a Duke fan, or a UK fan.
I dont even really like UK historically, but I love to watch them play this year, and really enjoy watching Wall and Patterson play.
I'll give Wall the same opportunity, that is if he were to stay another year. But Calipari has had his opportunity with several programs and has what to show for it? Nothing. Roy had already earned his name before UNC and has become one of the best all-time at UNC. Say what you want about Hansborough, but there definitely wasn't this much talk coming into UNC before he ever played and wasn't even that much after his first year. Both Roy and Hansborough will go down as one of the best coaches and players all time.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
Why do you think he's not at UNC? It's because of that very reason, Roy isn't too fond of them either. You and I both know that coaches like Roy and Coach K haven't accomplished what they have with 1 and done players, their programs haven't and programs don't. UNC/Roy sure haven't won their titles with those type of players, can't build a team when your best player is going to be out the door the next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
Yes I do, because NCAA is separate from the NBA with me, they don't intermingle unless one effects the other - really if the NCAA(UNC) effects my NBA team. Do I want Hansborough to do good? Sure I do, why wouldn't I? Unless he goes to the Suns or a team I like in the future(which will eventually change because of Nash), I don't really care because he's not helping my team anymore. I'm a UNC fan, I was a Hansborough fan second. In the NBA it's the opposite, Nash then Suns second.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
And I was a Jordan fan, then UNC fan, he's the reason I started watching them..not the other way around, I wasn't born until he was already in the league 6 years when I was born. And no I was 3 when that happened, I watched him when I was little 6/7/8 years old and then with the Wizards. And I wasn't even a Suns fan until 04' anyways, it's been Bulls, then Kings, thenMavericks for 1 year and now the Suns since with the Cavs/Lebron a close second since the show James put on 07 Eastern Conference Finals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
I hate Singler with a passion, but not all bad things to happen to him in life. Both him and Hansborough will make millions no matter how much we hate them. And I was comparing him to the talk about Oden, not performance wise, I expect him to be better than Oden is in the NBA. That thread was about that "great game" and mostly that game, again, nothing I said about him wasn't true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggin
Let's be real, Calipari isn't on the same level as Roy, not even close. It took building teams, like all great coaches do, to win the titles and do what he's accomplished. I don't have argue about Roy, look at their resumes. Everything has been stripped from Calipari, who has no titles to begin with.
I'll brag on TH because as opposed to the Wall talk, it's not speculation, Hansborough has the number, awards and a title...while whether Wall is that much better or not, hasn't proved anything and was being talked up before he ever played a game. It's an assumption with Hansborough and Roy, their record backs anything I say up.
And IMO I don't see it with Henson, I think he'll stay another year at least.
Get off Roys nut's, he had some of the best teams to never win crap while he was in Kansas, and it took multiple first round picks on each team he had at UNC to win a title.
BTW keep your TH and RW love off my John Wall thread, you make it look bad.
Alright, I don't really care about UK/UNC...but let's not throw out things that are just plain false...
Calipari is not 10x the coach that Roy Williams is, that's just silly...You talked about Roy having 2 all-world teams filled with draft picks in order to win his titles...well, who exactly did he have that was anything near an All-Star?? He had some good college players who played within his system and together they won the title...
Roy Williams had...
Sean May
Raymond Felton
Rashad McCants
Marvin Williams
Ty Lawson
Wayne Ellington
Tyler Hansbrough
Ed Davis
Who off that list is even close to becoming an All-Star on the next level??
On the other hand Calipari has had...
Marcus Camby
Derrick Rose
Tyreke Evans
Chris Douglas-Roberts
Joey Dorsey
DaJuan Wagner
Robert Dozier
Camby has been in the NBA for a long time, Derrick Rose is already an All-Star, Evans will be one...CDR could be one, he's put up some big numbers for a terrible team...Dorsey is more like May and Hansborough...Wagner could have been better than anyone on the list if he wasn't dumb as a brick...Dozier was just a good college player
So in terms of talent, Williams might have had more quantity of talented players (not by much) but Calipari has had better quality of players, hands-down
Also, recruiting is a HUGE part of being a coach...if you can't recruit kids to fit your system and win the big games then it's your failure as a coach...Roy Williams got who he wanted, then took those guys and played them within his system, and won 2 titles...Calipari hasn't done that, and the times he has come close he has cheated
Don't get me wrong, Calipari is a great coach and could eventually catch up to Williams, I LOVE his DDM offense and I firmly believe it will revolutionize the game of basketball...even though he stole the DDM, too
henson will be a 2 year player...just sayin :)
Thats ACC nuthugging at his finest.
Ask anyone that knows anything, Roy Williams is the most overrated coach ever.
You listed ALL of Cal's players, since like 94.
All the players on the Williams list is from TWO YEARS.
Look at the teams, cmon drew you are smarter than that.
Sean May
Rashad McCants
Marvin Williams
Raymond Felton
all NBA picks, Williams a lottery pick and could be an All-Star
then it was
Ty Lawson
Wayne Ellington
Tyler Hansborough
All 1st round picks, and Lawson has potential.
Roy's talent is 100x the talent Cal has had. To say anything different is way off, and flat out wrong.
Look at all those great Kansas teams, what happened with those?? NOTHING
He let a team full of All-Americans lose to one player in 03.
By All star I meant All-American.
Now lets look at the Memphis team that made it to the Final game.
Derrick Rose
Chris Douglas Roberts, who is nothing more than a decent NBA player.
Robert Dozier
Joey Dorsey
Anthony Anderson?
Now you are kidding yourself if you dont think the Carolina teams had 100x the overall talent as that Memphis team.
Excluding Rose, no one from Memphis will ever be an NBA starter.
All-Americans don't really mean a whole lot when comparing two elite programs...All-American says you scored a lot of points in college, many good college players who had no business in the NBA were All-Americans
Who is anyone who knows anything? I don't have all the answers but I have followed basketball quite a bit, and if there's any one sport I do know a bit about it's college basketball, and I've never once heard anyone call Roy Williams overrated...outside of this LPD message board anyway...he's one of the most respected coaches in the game
I'm not ACC "nut hugging" here...Hell, ask pvfan, I used to be a HUGE Duke fan...when it comes to college basketball I don't really have a favorite team...sure, I'd like to see VT do well, but I don't actively cheer for them like I do in other sports...I'm a fan of good basketball in general, and good basketball is played in Chapel Hill, and it's because of Roy Williams...whether it's recruiting or x's and o's, he does his job and he does it well
how can a man who stays on top of the nation's toughest conference (year in and year out) be overrated?? If the argument is that he is overrated because he gets good players, that's laughable....that's his **** job! to get good players and coach them...and he has done both extremely well
CDR will be an NBA starter, you can bank on that...Marvin Williams will not be an All-Star, he has kinda hit a ceiling on his potential...but he is a good player nonetheless
Hansbrough is Mark Madsen part deux, and that's all he'll ever be...Lawson will be a serviceable guard, but not much more....the kid they have coming in, Barnes, has the potential to be an All-Star, he's got it all
I was a huge fan of the Memphis team with Derrick Rose on it, you can go back and read my posts from that time, I'm still a big Derrick Rose fan...but I'll call a spade a spade, and Roy Williams > John Calipari
Andrew DeClercq. Nuff said.Quote:
Hansbrough is Mark Madsen part deux, and that's all he'll ever be...
So, even though he coaches at the second most prestegious program ever, and basically gets to hand pick all the top recruits, 3-4 McDonalds All-Americans at a time, he is automatically a better coach?
What about Roy's days at Kansas? You've yet to address that. Do you remember how many times he choked in big game situations? He had some of the best teams in the nation at Kansas, yet he never won a national title.
Does it not matter that Calapari has had 1/10th of the talent that Williams has had?
Calapari is now at an elite-level program. Roy was at Kansas for a long time, an elite program, and never won it all.
Cal has never been a coach at the elite level until now.
If he wins two titles at UK, is he still not as good as Roy?
No, that doesn't make him automatically better, it's his record. It's the facts that he's 3rd all-time in win percentage, been to 7 Final Fours, had a win in 20 consecutive NCAA tourneys, two-time AP COY, two titles and in the Basketball Hall of Fame...compared to Calipari who has only 2 Final Four appearances, which were both vacated, pretty easy to see who's the better coach. Roy built the program at UNC back up himself, they were par the year before he came in and had the worst season in school history the year before that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggin
Calipari hasn't had scrub teams either, let's not pretend he hasn't had some of the best talent either.
Bottom line: UK beat UNC last saturday, UK will reach 2000 wins before UNC, John Wall is the best PG in the country.
Roy built back the program? The players were already there, it wasn't really building back, it was just changing philosophy.Quote:
Originally Posted by R13
Yes, May and company were when he first got there and the program was still par at the time. Then after they won the title in 05, the top 7 scorers were gone and he built it back up to last years teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1inStripes
Reloading is what all high profile programs do, unless they have just an absolute dog of a coach. They do not rebuild.
Bill Guthridge
Who??
Who????
JOHN WALL
25 points, 6 steals, beating Uconn basically at home, at MSG in NYC.
He beat Uconn tonight, scored 12 of their last 15, took over at the end.
He's nothing special.....
*rolls eyes*