Sure looked great again tonight didn't they?:D The wheels have fallen off the wagon as of late. I love it.
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Sure looked great again tonight didn't they?:D The wheels have fallen off the wagon as of late. I love it.
UNC just hasn't rebounded like I thought they would, the team after the 05' ship bounced back(tarheel fans were spoiled), but there was definitely a lot of struggling - this team is struggling a little more. When losing Lawson/Hansborough and company, it's going to take some time. These injuries haven't helped, Ed Davis being out tonight sure didn't, but a game they still should have won. I did see some improvements with handling the ball better, the Wear twins are great and I mean they bust their ass every play...might not be a Hans or Ty, but hustle role players that will be a piece to a title in a few years. Just the 5 Freshman look very, very promising. I'm hoping they'll work the kinks out and do some damage in the ACC tourney and maybe get somewhere in the NCAA tourney.
With all that said, dropping 3 in a roll just doesn't happen, not since Roy...but not it has, I believe that's where it will stop. They have a 6 day rest I think?, then Davis should be back and ready to play(hurts when you're without the teams leading rebounder, block shots, and leader of the ACC in FG%) against that Wolfpack.
Yeah, no way a team can compete with a bunch of freshman playing. Especially if you have two freshman in the back court together, a freshman center, sophomore wing man and a lone junior at power forward.
Shew, could be a long season for the Cats :)
We all can't be as good as UVA is this year.
bray, not everybody can have the bets player in the nation
and yall laughed when I said Roy W. was soo overrated and Cal was the better coach
how does this prove Cal is the better coach?
UK returned an ALL-SEC player to go with a bunch of 5-star recruits...haven't had any injuries, and outside of Jodie Meeks, didn't really lose anyone from their previous squad
UNC lost 3 players to the NBA draft, including a guy who is the ACC's all-time scorer, and have dealt with injuries all season to not just 3 of their players, but the 3 best players they have
does UK win with any combination of Wall, Patterson and Cousins on the bench with injuries??
UK's freshmen are one-and-done types, Carolina hasn't had to recruit one-and-done types because they've been so deep that they could take players with a high ceiling and turn them into good players when they got experience
you force decent players into starting roles with the schedule they've played and you better believe they're going to struggle a little bit...Carolina will be fine, and this group of freshmen will probably get a title before they're done
if Calipari doesn't win it all this year with the amount of talent that he has, then there's no way he can even be considered in the top 5 coaches right now in college basketball...and i really don't believe they will win it
now see thats a load of horse ****.Quote:
Originally Posted by gcdevil22
Kentucky starts THREE freshman, how can you possibly expect three 18 year olds to make no mistakes and be the favorite to win it all?
you just said yourself the team is the young, the youngest in the top 10, how can you say that doesnt show Cal is a better coach???
UNC doesnt get the big name recruits is also a huge steaming pile of dog sh1t. they consistently finish in the top 5 of recruiting, yet they cant reload, but a team like UK, that has been down for a while, can just bring in 5 players and be a title contender??
UNC and UK are VERY similar situations. One senior starter, and the rest, very talented young guys. UNC is even MORE experienced than UK, Davis who has been hurt, Larry Drew, Deon Thompson etc..
you are having a huge double standard. its okay for UNC to suffer and lose some games, but UK, who is YOUNGER and less experienced than even UNC, is expected to win it all??
If you are saying that, then you HAVE to say Cal is better than cryin Roy
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcdevil22
Have you not followed college basketball?
Kentucky didint return 6 players from last season, only Patterson, Miller and Stevenson saw the floor. Liggins refused to even go in one game last year. I would put Kentucky with Bledsoe, Miller, Liggins, Patterson and Cousins with Orton and Dodson off the bench against any team in the NCAA, Wall separates them and makes them 18-0 right now, without him I dont think they'd be undefeated, however they would still be a top 10 team. Facts are the only one and done player is Wall. And thats how it is. Cal is a great Coach, his style of play is what attracts the "one and done" type you say. The dribble drive, the prep for the NBA types, to say Cal isnt a great coach is silly. Success at UMASS, Memphis and Kentucky, and dont give me any BS of NCAA infractions, the same situation with Wall happened with the kid at Duke, however he wasnt John Wall.
does UK win with any combination of Wall, Patterson and Cousins on the bench with injuries??
Yes, Orton would step in and fill in for either Cousins or PPatt, Wall is someone who you just dont replace, Bledsoe, Dodson, Miller and Liggins are all capable of great play, not Wall play because he is a phenom, but high level play, yes.
I give credit when its due, UNC had a great group last year, so does Kansas and Texas this year, if KU loses Henry are they a 1 loss team? If UNC doesnt have Tyler last year, do they win it all? You can say that about any team.
But hey, UK is playing great, Cal is a great fit, his style just like when Pitino came breathed life into the program again, facts are facts. Other programs rise and fall, flash in the pan.
Carolina, DUKE, UCLA and Kentucky just take turns, the name recruits the players, unless you do something like hire Billy Clyde or have Tubby just go off the deep end recruiting kids from canada left and right, those 4 will always be at the top. They will have doesn years and years where most teams would consider it a HUGE success, they consider failures.
I'm saying just because UK is having a better year, does not mean Calipari is better than Williams...neither of them suck, they are both really good coaches in their own right, but Williams has accomplished a lot more and is consistently better than most coaches/programs
Yeah, but at Kansas and UNC, you almost have to try and mess up not to be successful at those programs. see Gillespe (sp) I cant even spell his name sadly, the end of Tubby's era at UK. I agree, I think Roy is a great coach, just like Cal, Coach K etc. The name across those jerseys however gets most those kids to play there. They were all successful before the respective coaches were at those schools and will be long after they are gone.
"its not about x's and o's, its about jimmys and joes"
how exactly is Williams consistently better?Quote:
Originally Posted by gcdevil22
Cal has never been at a high profile program until this year, how can you even compare the two accomplishments?
He has coached at UNC and KU, its pretty tough to lose there.
Whereas Cal has won at UMass, Memphis, and so far Kentucky.
Answer me this:
Is it harder to win at Seton Hall or UCLA?
I'm not high on Roy but Roy>Coach Cal. When Coach Cal makes the final four and it's not stripped a couple years later come talk to me, until then he's a cheat. It's like comparing McGwire to Marris to me, one is better, but they cheated, the other is solid and legit.
Calapari has never done anything wrong. Its not fair to say that. He was never the cause of any sanctions, and thats a fact. Look it up
I wonder how often those coaches really know about a kid. If he is cleared to play to their knowledge can they be at fault? How many things get over looked? How many disgruntled people does it take before something is dug up?Quote:
Originally Posted by pvfan
I am not saying he is clean, granted to get kids at UMASS and Memphis, I dont see how he didint pay them straight cash homie. However look at all other sports and programs, USC, Miami, FSU etc, all scandal involed at those programs.
Point I am making, Cal, like Pitino, now at an elite school, he wont have to worry about those things. The players will come for exposure and for what he can do to help them get into the NBA, one and done, two and done, etc. Thats the nature of the game, all programs have those. Look at what Wright at UNC a couple years ago, and well, I dont think DUKE has had anyone one and done in a while, I may be wrong. Players leave early and you cant begrudge someone for that. If someone offered me 2.3 mill after my first year at UVA Wise to read books, hell Id left.
You can believe that if you wish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggin
Paging Eddie Sutton.Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeebaseball
I know you know a lot of sports, I hope you know all of what happend then. Eddie Sutton was the man who set UK back 25 years. His own selfishness with his own son, caused his downfall. No scandal with Joe B Hall, No Scandal with Pitino, No scandal even with Tubby, cause Tubby was happy gettin Jack In the Box all Americans while the rest of the teams got all americans. I dont know many things, I dont know a lot about various sports teams, but I know a lot about UK and the Yankees. Sutton almost gave UK the death sentence, if it werent for Pitino and Jamal Mashburn, UK may have never recovered.
my point was that he himself was never involved in any of this
memphis wasnt even cash from boosters or agents, it was something with a test, right?
how can calapari be blamed for that?
marcus camby took money and **** at umass, and you think it was calapari handing it out?
the kids do this, the high powered boosters do this, and its not 1975 anymore, the coaches cannot simply be involved in this kinda mess anymore, so yeah, i really do believe calapari was never the main cause of sanctions at a school.
im not even close to a uk fan and im defending calapari, doesnt that count for something?
I'm not close to a UNC fan and I'm defending Williams
to say Calipari hasn't done anything wrong is just naive or turning a blind eye
please, look up William "Worldwide Wes" Wesley...Calipari's involvement with this guy alone is wrong in and of itself, but Calipari skirts the NCAA by giving money to Wesley, since Wesley is not a family member of a recruited athlete and not involved with an NCAA member institution directly, the NCAA cannot make him turn over his bank records to build a case
Wesley has represented:
DaJuan Wagner
Derrick Rose
Tyreke Evans
DeMarcus Cousins
and
dun dun dun....Josh Selby, who will most likely be picking UK
what do all of those guys have in common? all Calipari players
Calipari is EASILY one of the top 3 shady coaches in the nation...
the notion that because Calipari is now at UK that he won't have to make those kinds of deals is silly...William Wesley is not a guy you just "stop dealing with" you either play ball or he'll freeze you out
ok??
you make it sound like Cal is the only person associated with Wesley.
Wesley is maybe the most powerful figure in the NBA, yet he works specifically with Cal?? ha, thats laughable
if you want to penalize everyone associated with Wesley, then youd have to basically shut the NBA and NCAA basketball down
and yeah I know who he is
one question:
has he ever been penalized by ANYONE associated with the NCAA investigation committee?
EDIT-
you do know he has been associated with the Clinton's, Mike Jordan, Phil Knight, Tom Shiner right?
You are way off on this one, Cal is in the same mold as Jim Calhoun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggin
the point is nobody has anything on Calapari
with the vacated wins and such, you dont think if the NCAA really had something, they wouldnt slam Calapari down?
with Dajuan Wagner:
he hired his dad to be involed with the memphis program. how many other schools do that? tons. it happens all the time.
Derrick Rose:
before he got to Memphis, someone took the SAT for him and he used it to get into school. is that Cal's doing? no one has ever proved that, there is no evidence to support that
Marcus Camby took money from an agent, Calapari was not involved in that, there was never anything linking Camby taking money to Cal
theres no doubt wesley has tons of clout in the NBA and with players, but to penalize Cal for associating with him when basically the whole NBA is associated with Wesley is not really fair to him, is it?
Seriously, all I can do is laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggin
you really think allen houstons dad was tn first choice of coach?
please, thats the one thing that bothers me about sports. there is so much under the table things, so many things you could sit and pick apart about any ncaa coach. with the atmosphere in the sports world, its tough to tell who you are dealing with, even outside of Cal, Im not saying he is a saint and he hasnt done something questionable or even wrong.
I just dont think you can show me a coach who has done something like he has been said to do, or did, something comparable or even things worse.
thats a great point, and people overlook it because they enjoy taking down a coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeebaseball
this kind of crap happens everywhere, and to assume it doesnt is as silly as me assuming Cal has been perfectly innocent.
Lemme ask you something:
when Tee Martin took money in college, do you think Fulmer was immediately involved? Do you hold Fulmer as responsible for that like you do Calapari?
UT is shady, UK is shady, UCONN is shady, USC is shady, etc. To say it happens everywhere is wrong, I don't like Coach K or Duke at all but you don't hear about this. Same can be said for Gary Williams at Maryland. It's a dirty game and has caused me to lose some of my interest in NCAA Athletics as I have aged.
You do realize what they punished John Wall for is the exact same thing the kid for Duke did dont you? He was Wall's teamate. How is UK shady? Explain that to me, thats hilarious. I know the Billy G years and Tubby run had just limitless talent and blue chip players on the roster. Was there ever any questions while Pitino was there? While Joe B Hall was there? Eddie Sutton, yeah, he was a douche when he was OK State and had his issues there. Again, I suggest you look into what happened while he was at UK.
And whats shady? Kids who have "handlers" when they are 13? What do you do, avoid those players, you think the kids who play for Duke, UNC, UCONN, Texas, UCLA, Alabama, Maryland, Rhode Island (yeah, Harrick and Lamar Odom). If you really believe that none of the schools have accepted kids who havent had something questionable come up? Then, you just have a distorted reality of things. Especially with college basketball and AAU. Whats shady, mistreatment of kids like Bob Knight? Whats shady the kids at Michigan taking money, from outside sources? Whats shady sweeping under the rug of things players do and get tangled in the law. No program is free, no program is clean, I refuse to believe that coaches and programs can control what a kid does with outside influences. I am not even just defending Cal, but corruption is not limited to a few. Like I said, he isnt a saint, he is prob even guilty of some of the allegations. But I would venture to say more are guilty than innocent. Its a business. Plain and simple.
you could not possibly be more wrong about DukeQuote:
Originally Posted by pvfan
does Corey Maggette ring a bell?
people have this false sense that Duke is so clean and never did anything wrong, its because the NCAA does its best to try and keep Duke clean. How many wins did they forfeit, even though Maggette was ineligble??? None
No matter if he was enrolled or not, Maggette took money while an amateur, he went to Duke and played, therefore Duke should have to forfeit games.
So Coach K gets a pass for that, yet you hold Marcus Camby against Calapari?
Maryland got into trouble with the NCAA in the late 80's as well, but nothing under Gary has ever been investigated. If Stephenson would have ended up there, I doubt you could still say that.
but to act like Duke and Coach K are totally innocent is not true
just because other schools do it doesn't make Calipari any less shady...
the NCAA has never done anything to William Wesley because they flat out can't....they have no jurisdiction over him, they would LOVE to keep him out of the NCAA, and there is actually a ban from any NCAA school hiring him, but that's all they can do
Wesley's relationship with the people you mentioned happened after said people had become famous, they weren't doing anything against any rules because the no rule that says you can't give an NBA player or former President money
Calipari has skirted NCAA sanctions by leaving IMMEDIATELY when learning of the allegations...UMass to NJ Nets...Memphis to UK...UK to ???
there is a stipulation in the rules that if a coach (who is a part of the program being investigated) is no longer a part of the program, he does not have to turn over any records to the NCAA regarding their investigation...so Calipari has gotten out of this twice by bolting during an investigation
the rule was put in place to keep from further hurting coaches who had been fired as the result of a school's investigation...the rule should be changed to read that a fired coach can't be investigated but a coach who leaves on his own will can be investigated...but there's a TON of NCAA rules that need to be re-done or thrown out
the NCAA has taken a step to stop some of Calipari's (and MANY other shady coach's) dealings...they are passing a rule that makes it illegal to hire someone for a camp who is not already on staff at an NCAA school or enrolled in the school for a full year of the program hosting the camp...many coaches were bringin in the parent or high school coach or handler or a prospect and paying them 1,500 dollars when the going rate is around 300-400 per camp...many times the prospect's rep wouldnt even work at the camp, just watch
it's a good rule, but it takes away the opportunity for kids to go to other schools and work their camps like I have done the last two years and make contacts...fortunately the rule will not apply to me, but it really would have hurt me for the rule to be in place say, two years ago...
well if UK goes down in flames they will. until then they are undefeated and ranked #1
until the ncaa makes it plain rules, thaat if you deal with an agent or your aau coach gets paid then it is what it is. regardless, if you think with all the kids going to these schools and all these kids with the world promised to them and the leeches around them, that someone isnt giving them money or "guidance" you are kidding yourself.
John Calipari = The Hitler of NCAA basketball.
John Calipairi (CAL-ah-Pear-e)
def: shady. to be every thing that is wrong with something in the world; to be used as an example for an occurrence that happens in many places but is only referred to as one person.
In a sentence: "Lets go sit under a tree where its John Calipari and the sun will not be on us"
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcdevil22
im still waiting for you to tell me what Calapari did wrong at UMass and Memphis.
If Cal is just running from trouble, what trouble did he cause???
Did he give Camby the money? Did he take the SAT for Rose??
he gave Wesley the money...Wesley pointed him and many others in Calipari's direction for the money favor(s)
you can't honestly believe Calipari is clean, or even just slightly corrupt...anyone who believes that would have to mean you're a die-hard UK fan, you don't follow college bball much or you're very naive
everyone commits violations, yes...a lot of coaches do it blatantly but do so quietly or find loopholes in the system...but there's only a handful who have made their entire career based on the fact that they cheated
Calipari is seriously in the Tim Floyd, Dave Bliss, Jim Calhoun, Rick Stansbury category of dirty coaches
I honest to God don't understand how you can't see that
you keep saying that, but ive done quite a bit of research, and there is zero proof out there to what you are saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by gcdevil22
do you have solid proof? can you prove Cal gave Wes money to send the kids to Memphis/UK?
if you can, its a different situation, but if you cant, then how can i take you seriously?
Coaches live & die by technicalities. That exact post above was probably the NCAA's response when someone reported Calipari's actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggin
If you don't have hard evidence to back up an accusation even though it's common knowledge that it happened, then it never happened by rule.
But--that doesn't mean it didn't actually happen and the dude is still a slimeball who jumps from a job he's broken rules at to another job where he'll be basically immune from sanctions.
If theres no proof, only speculation, then how can it be common knowledge it happened??Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
USC got busted for **** like that, and hte NCAA loves them. If the NCAA has people calling every day complaining about Cal, im sure there would be a huge full scale investigation.
the NCAA can be vindictive and aggressive towards people or programs they wanna get, if Cal has been doing all this terrible stuff, there has to be proof somewhere, and the NCAA would have found it by now.
My big thing is there is nothing out there backing up what Drew is saying , its pure speculation, no facts involved.
and how can you punish someone on speculation?
whether you want to believe it or not I know a lot of people in the business, and absolutely every single coach I've talked to has said the same things about Calipari and his relationship with Wesley
I've posed the question before as to why these coaches won't just go to the NCAA with their info, their responses have always ran along the line of "none of them will blow the whistle on it because, unless you're a huge figure in the game (i.e. Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, etc.), then you will get black-balled by the coaching community"...and with the NCAA there's no way in knowing which accusations they will actively pursue, so if you put yourself out there and then no investigation ultimately comes then you're killing your career for nothing
I heard Keith Dambrot at Akron say that if Calipari will ever be punished it will be because he turned his back on Wesley or from a disgruntled booster who is willing to turn over his bank statements
since you're the insider ill take your word, im starting a petition for the removal of calipari.
he had that hati telethon because he actually cause the earthquake and felt guilty...
John Calipari Ruined College Basketball is a book im writing now. The most shady, and dirtiest coach in college sports history, over bob knight and woody hayes, physical confrontations are just tough love, over the free shoes universities of the floridas, over the fab 5 "thousand dollars a game" Michigan Wolverines.
John Calipari, the devil, the scum of the earth, the man the ncaa barred from coaching, the man found guilty and removed from every school he has been at ever, the only coach to ever have run ins "with agents, handlers or other shady people who arent as shady as he is"