Reading this article...

Why in the world do people actually think this? It's ridiculous. It's sad, I hear it all the time when we discuss different issues in sociology...this ridiculous argument always comes up when gay marriage comes up, why? What would give anyone these notions to think that?




SAN FRANCISCO - Lawyers for two same-sex couples challenging the constitutionality of California's ban on same-sex marriage rested their case Monday after showing videotape of a simulcast in which supporters of the ban said gay marriage would lead to polygamy and bestiality.

The footage was shown as an example of the work of San Diego pastor Jim Garlow, who helped organize evangelical Christian support for the Proposition 8 ballot measure in 2008.

In one video rally led by Garlow, an unidentified pastor warned "the polygamists are waiting in the wings, because if a man can marry a man and a woman can marry a woman, the polygamists are going to use that exact same argument and they probably are going to win."


An unidentified woman later said "a man wanting to marry a horse, brothers and sisters, any combination would have to be allowed."

It appeared the lawyers were introducing the material to demonstrate the campaign for the ban appealed to religious-based, anti-gay bias to scare voters into supporting the measure.

The trial is the first in a federal court to examine if states violate the U.S. Constitution by preventing same-sex couples from marrying.

Proposition 8 sponsors objected to the video, saying the content of the simulcast was not controlled by campaign managers or leaders.

However, Chief U.S. Judge Vaughn Walker allowed the material to be put into the record because the coalition of religious and conservative groups behind Proposition 8 paid for Garlow's work.

9/11 comparison
In the six-minutes of footage shown for Walker, various people opined on the negative consequences of legalizing gay marriage. One unidentified speaker compared the potential social impact of "this social reengineering of marriage" to the way the 9/11 terrorist attacks made the world "a fundamentally different place."

The clips also included people saying that once same-sex marriage was legalized in Massachusetts, public schools stocked picture books that included gay couples as an example of different types of families.

"If same-sex marriage is legalized, then it must be taught as normal, acceptable and moral behavior in every single public school," said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council.

The plaintiffs also introduced clips from promotional videos produced by other groups for distribution to churches during the Proposition 8 campaign.

In one, produced by the American Family Council in Mississippi, the chairman of the California campaign, Ron Prentice, spoke against same-sex couples raising children.

"Children need and deserve the chance to have both mother love and father love," Prentice said.

Men and women "don't bring to a marriage and a family the same natural set of skills and talents." he said.

Nine days in presenting case
The lawyers for the plaintiffs rested their case after spending more than nine days presenting evidence on the meaning of marriage, the nature of sexual orientation, and the role of religion in shaping attitudes about both.

Prominent litigators Theodore Olson and David Boies asserted that Proposition 8 was a product of anti-gay bias without justification.

Lawyers for Proposition 8 sponsors called their first witness, a Claremont College political scientist.

Nicole Moss, another lawyer for those sponsors, said the defendants might call campaign manager Frank Schubert to the witness stand to dispute the inflammatory messages on the videotape came from the campaign.

An unidentified woman later said "a man wanting to marry a horse, brothers and sisters, any combination would have to be allowed."


Well this part isn't gonna make any difference considering all the crazy things people have married this past year. Obviously to some people marriage is not serious nor important anymore, people have taken the meaning of marriage and turned it into a joke.
As for gay marriage, I could care less whether they get married or not, its not me.

But my point is, there's no way it would open the doors to any of that, not anymore than the wacko stuff that goes on now. Bestiality is nowhere near the same thing, a horse cannot consent to anything...I hate that argument. I just see this whole thing as ridiculous, it's withholding rights to a group of people because it doesn't go along with Christianity...Would you not agree? Anyone not agree?

I'm sure it isn't just Christians that don't believe in homosexuality, there are plenty of other groups that don't believe in it also. Here is my thing, I am a Christian and I understand that people may have different views on things, I am not going to say whether it is right for Gays to marry or not because like I said I could care less. It isn't me and it is going to have no effect on me. My belief is that everyone is going to have to answer for what they have done. I have got enough to answer for without thinking about what someone else is going to have to answer for. I may think being Gay is wrong in my opinion and beliefs BUT I have had many many Gay friends, those issues never came up because its MY beliefs not theirs. they have their beliefs and I have mine, better off that way!!

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Originally Posted by R13

But my point is, there's no way it would open the doors to any of that, not anymore than the wacko stuff that goes on now. Bestiality is nowhere near the same thing, a horse cannot consent to anything...I hate that argument. I just see this whole thing as ridiculous, it's withholding rights to a group of people because it doesn't go along with Christianity...Would you not agree? Anyone not agree?

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IMHO the beasality argument is stupid however I DO think that the polyigmiee agrument is legit (If marage can be between 2 men why not 2 men and a women?)

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Originally Posted by Counts

IMHO the beasality argument is stupid however I DO think that the polyigmiee agrument is legit (If marage can be between 2 men why not 2 men and a women?)

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Not really, there would have to be a major movement by a very large group of polygamist, I don't think there is. There is what 5 states that have legalized it so far, polygamy is as far out of reach as it was before too.

With that said, I really wouldn't care. If there is consent, a guy with both wives or more knowing about the others, I have no argument against. If some guy can talk his wife into having another wife with his knowledge, not only do I not oppose it, I want to shake his hand :)

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Originally Posted by cosmo99

I'm sure it isn't just Christians that don't believe in homosexuality, there are plenty of other groups that don't believe in it also.

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You're right, they definitely not the only one, but the main one...they're the largest religious group here, then atheists/agnostic come in second(not much opposition there), then it's a huge drop off into 1/2% groups. It's a religious issue mainly and Christians are the largest opposition.

I think marriage has apparently turned into a joke for some people, its no longer about a life long commitment to someone you love, its "what or who or how many I can marry to get on the news or on Yahoo".
It's sad that somethings that USED to mean a lot to people a long time ago, mean nothing to people these days.

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Originally Posted by R13

You're right, they definitely not the only one, but the main one...they're the largest religious group here, then atheists/agnostic come in second(not much opposition there), then it's a huge drop off into 1/2% groups. It's a religious issue mainly and Christians are the largest opposition.

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Yea because Christians are horrible people and want everyone to be miserable :rolleyes: You're pathetic when it comes to trying to blame everything on a religious group. If you're not gay then why are you so worried about the rights for them to get married? If it's not affecting you personally then why do you get so worked up over it ?

I think R13 that you are forgetting that there are people in the world that have no religious views on this at all and just think that its gross and wrong. If some other religion were to outnumber Christians, I wonder if you would blame them as much???

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Originally Posted by Milk3

Yea because Christians are horrible people and want everyone to be miserable :rolleyes: You're pathetic when it comes to trying to blame everything on a religious group. If you're not gay then why are you so worried about the rights for them to get married? If it's not affecting you personally then why do you get so worked up over it ?

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It doesn't matter if thats what they "set out to do", but it's what happens. It's a religious issue dumbass, how can you not blame religious groups when it's their fault? LMAO. Because I think it's an injustice, I'm not black either, but I'd support the Civil Rights movement too...can you grasp that? Can you grasp you don't have to be the definition of what you defend? Apparently not, I know you can't think for yourself and follow what you've been told by your family and the preachers, it just takes a little common sense to see that it's wrong to make someone 2nd class citizens because you don't like what they do in their bedroom? Do you know how ridiculous that is?

Ask yourself that same question, if it doesn't affect you personally, why are you so against? Think about that, then get back to me. Seriously laughable to call me gay, you really have no clue who I am. Do I really need to post me and my exes and current gf? I know you went and got your first gf, up on your high-horse lmao, we're all happy for you though....you needed one.

haha you obviously know nothing about me either hahaha you need to watch you're mouth little boy before you get you're feelings hurt

LMAO Back what up? Do tell. Obviously you don't have a clue, since you make such ignorant claims, though I know its common coming from you.



Whoops, someone edited their post. And yeah I do, but if I don't, post your past beauties :rolleyes: And go ahead and hurt them, I'm waiting....

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Originally Posted by cosmo99

I think R13 that you are forgetting that there are people in the world that have no religious views on this at all and just think that its gross and wrong. If some other religion were to outnumber Christians, I wonder if you would blame them as much???

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I don't really care if someone agrees with it or not, that's not the issue, there's not all that many atheists/agnostics against it...they tend to be for it. It's the fact that it goes as far as stripping citizens their rights, that's my problem. Muslims come in a close 2nd, 1.5 billion and their views are the same on it also...but muslims make up 0.6% of the population here, while Christians make up about 76%.

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Originally Posted by R13

LMAO Back what up? Do tell. Obviously you don't have a clue, since you make such ignorant claims, though I know its common coming from you.



Whoops, someone edited their post. And yeah I do, but if I don't, post your past beauties :rolleyes: And go ahead and hurt them, I'm waiting....




I don't really care if someone agrees with it or not, that's not the issue, there's not all that many atheists/agnostics against it...they tend to be for it. It's the fact that it goes as far as stripping citizens their rights, that's my problem. Muslims come in a close 2nd, 1.5 billion and their views are the same on it also...but muslims make up 0.6% of the population here, while Christians make up about 76%.

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Im not so desperate for attention like you that i post pictures of girls on here to try to be cool. You need to grow up. And i did edit my post because I'm not getting banned because of an idiot like yourself. If you have a problem with me come to any pv bb game and i'd be happy to discuss it with you instead of being a keyboard hardass.

My point is that it seems as though according to you Christians are to blame for a lot of things when there are plenty of others in the world that can get the blame also. You can't keep blaming one party all the time. Its not the majorities fault every time.

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Originally Posted by cosmo99

My point is that it seems as though according to you Christians are to blame for a lot of things when there are plenty of others in the world that can get the blame also. You can't keep blaming one party all the time. Its not the majorities fault every time.

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I agree 100%
Atleast we're not killing people because they are gay or putting them in special gay camps. The law says marriage is between a man and a women. What's wrong with religion? Was this country no founded on the believe of an all powerful God ( if you do not think so read a history book)? Is God not on our money? Why would we want to turn our backs on God when he has made America what it is ? I'm not saying that people can't believe what they want they can and should be able to but God is the reason our country has been great.The more this country turns it's back on God the more he will turn his on us.

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Originally Posted by Milk3

Im not so desperate for attention like you that i post pictures of girls on here to try to be cool. You need to grow up. And i did edit my post because I'm not getting banned because of an idiot like yourself. If you have a problem with me come to any pv bb game and i'd be happy to discuss it with you instead of being a keyboard hardass.

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Haha so desperate :rolleyes: Just don't start making claims about someone else, when 1) you're a loser yourself and 2) complete off about the person. You're the one that started throwing shots, so I gave it back, can't take it...don't dish it out.

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Originally Posted by cosmo99

My point is that it seems as though according to you Christians are to blame for a lot of things when there are plenty of others in the world that can get the blame also. You can't keep blaming one party all the time. Its not the majorities fault every time.

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I only blame them when their at fault, I'm not saying global warming is their fault or the earthquake was caused by them, just the things that they are responsible for. This is absolutely one of them, religious groups like the Church of Latter Day Saints fueled prop 8 in California for example...along with others. Churches/the religious can spend their money helping people, instead of fighting against two people getting married, or donate time in a soup kitchen instead of marching in some rally against gays/lesbians or whatever other cause.

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Originally Posted by Milk3

I agree 100%
Atleast we're not killing people because they are gay or putting them in special gay camps. The law says marriage is between a man and a women. What's wrong with religion? Was this country no founded on the believe of an all powerful God ( if you do not think so read a history book)? Is God not on our money? Why would we want to turn our backs on God when he has made America what it is ? I'm not saying that people can't believe what they want they can and should be able to but God is the reason our country has been great.The more this country turns it's back on God the more he will turn his on us.

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Maybe you need to pick up the history book.

1) Some laws say that for now, it's changing.

2) No it wasn't. Many founding fathers were deists.

3) And when was it put on the money? Just 60+ years ago.

4) That's your opinion that's supported by nothing, but your opinion. We weren't founded on religion, it's very clear that there is a separation from religion and the government. Christianity has lost major numbers the past 20 years.


We're not a Christian nation, we weren't founded on it, it has no place in the government and that's the problem...because people like to think the opposite of those facts.

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Originally Posted by R13

Haha so desperate :rolleyes: Just don't start making claims about someone else, when 1) you're a loser yourself and 2) complete off about the person. You're the one that started throwing shots, so I gave it back, can't take it...don't dish it out. .

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You don't even know me first off and again if you have something to say to me or about me say it to my face. I'm not fighting on a forum with an immature ass like yourself.

Yet you followed me in threads and started this whole argument, but act like such the big man now? Humorous.

U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the History of"In God We Trust"

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Originally Posted by cosmo99

U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the History of"In God We Trust"

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A law passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate. The first paper currency bearing the motto entered circulation on October 1, 1957. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) was converting to the dry intaglio printing process. During this conversion, it gradually included IN GOD WE TRUST in the back design of all classes and denominations of currency.


I was wrong, it was just over 50 years, kept thinking 1940's for some reason but it was later. It was put on there for the Communism scare to make people feel better about it for some reason. Though from that, it didn't start appearing on the paper bills until 66-68. Again, we're far from a "Christian nation" and the only reason it was allowed to stay on money...was that it didn't specify a specific God, just A GOD.

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Originally Posted by R13

Yet you followed me in threads and started this whole argument, but act like such the big man now? Humorous.

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And again... if you have something to say to me say it to my face. Understand?

Same goes for you, got it? Contribute a little more to the thread next time or just the forum in general, instead of smilies or 1 sentence without punctuation. :)

15 Things You Never Noticed on a Dollar - Manage Your Life on Shine

thought this would go well with the money statement.

Defense officials say lift military ban on gays - Yahoo! News

Another issue with gays, all anyone is asking for is a little tolerance and ridding of "sin" laws. You don't have to be a gay or lesbian to see what's going on is wrong, some Defense officials agree with me.

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Originally Posted by R13

Same goes for you, got it? Contribute a little more to the thread next time or just the forum in general, instead of smilies or 1 sentence without punctuation. :)

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haha you're pathetic

Exactly what I was talking about. I know you don't really have clue about politics or social issues like this, but contribute a little...instead trying to insinuate dumb things about me. Tell why gays shouldn't get married or pick another topic, that you defend, and we'll see if you know what you're defending.