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I've never bought anything from Pro8mm BUT:
1. Most people here have denounced Pro8mm to the sky after being ripped off or having been on the receiving end of extremely cruddy service.
2. Those "Pro8mm cameras" are really Beaulieus with a "Pro8mm" sticker on them. From what I've read on their website, there's nothing special enough about their cameras to warrant purchasing cameras from them. Try shopping around.
3. Though I've never dealt with Pro8mm before, I would stay far away from them as they seem to have a very bad reputation...at least among the shooters on this group and S8 forum.
4. That sync classic Pro8mm camera is a Super 8mm cine camera. Therefore there should be no need for special software to give it the film look.
For the third time, keep in mind that I've never dealt with Pro8mm before but am only relaying what I've heard the majority of S8 shooters have reported about them.
Pac Lab in NYC now offers negative film and rank transfer. Only drawback: the prices are exactly the same as their west coast counterparts. At least you'll get decent customer service with PL than Pro8mm.
Good luck.
Tom
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If you want Super 8 products and services to continue to be available you (we) need to support the format and the companies that supply services.
I have never had a problem with Super 8 Sound..but I agree there prices are high, and always have been.
At least they treated Super 8 professionally, not like the format or cameras were pieces of junk at a garage sale.
Has anyone ever contacted Super 8 to inform them of the bad rap they are getting on line, and also offer constructive suggestions for them to improve?
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I disagree heartedly with Bossjock, and find the reasoning fatally flawed.
The life of Super8 is not dependent on any vendor of Super8 services. If Super8 Sound were to close its doors tomorrow, Super8 would live. Kodak is perhaps the only company which can single-handedly affect the life of S8 film.
Likewise, if Kodak were to stop carrying S8 tomorrow, Super8 Sound would likely soon announce a discontinuation of S8 processing, hike up their S8 transfer fees, and then start carrying 'special' 16mm equipment 'guaranteed to give you that Super8 look!'
If you continue to do business with a company whose business practices you abhor, then what motivation will they have to provide better service?
Super8 Sound, like any good company, is interested primarily in profits. They do not have some evangelical mission to keep S8 alive. They provide a very specialized service in a town that thrives on specialized services. Any Hollywood film utilizing S8 will require 'Hollywood level' services, even if unnecessary. Oliver Stone would never send his film to Dwayne's.
Were Super8 Sound to realize there was mass contempt for them among the Super8 community, it might cause them to re-examine their practices. Probably not, but it would stand a better chance than sycophantic obeisance to them. Why should I stop kicking you if you don't run away?
But don't take my word for it.
There is only one way to know whether Super8 Sound is a good place to do business: do business with them. If they treat you like crap, don't go back.
'Word of mouth' with regard to business practices is only good for preliminary research, and then only as good as the mouth speaking it. For all you know, someone's problems with Super8 Sound might really stem from a bad breakup with someone who works there, or someone bent out of shape because they didn't get a "deal."
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The original post is about the purchase of one of their cameras, which is just silly, easy nonsense for people who either don't know anything about super8, are rolling around in a pile of money, or both. The beulieu 4008 which they sell is so much cheaper elsewhere that the savings can be spent on a crystal sync unit and at least two hours worth of film with processing.
My advice:
Buy a Nizo 6080 or 4080 on ebay - it's much quieter and much cheaper
Lucas [img]biggrin.gif[/img]
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Dear Cal,
I'm hoping your wrong about the poor service.
I can't fault your logic for not wanting to do business with them, but once you stop being a customer, you lose your influence on changing them.
Perhaps they only want the deep pocks of the music video and Hollywood crowd.
Do you think that S-8-S knows the depth of lot of customers distrust and contempt?
Did you know they are now offering 16mm film, processing and rank transfers?
Could it be reduced market share is do to high prices and poor service?
If say some disgruntled former customers could talk to them...help them see the light..change their evil ways... ok, ok...that's over the top...but let them know more customers would make it a win win?situation.
As for your other point, I know everyone on this web site loves Kodachrome....and without it, some might drift up to 16mm. It's more likely that KODAK would or still could drop KODACHROME. It's more likely than Super 8 Sound dumping there core product line. Background point. Without S-8-S, KODAK would have never offered T200. They're to big a company to notice the Music Video (nitch market) S-8-S is one of the few places that still have a repair facility, over priced as it is.
Please believe me I'm not their publicist, but if I was a business owner, I know want to know how to win back ex-customers.
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This is obviously a company who is interested in their profits more than their customers' satisfaction. I've been reading all types of complaints by forum members about the outrageous prices and crappy customer service, that I know I would rather trust the guys and gals on this board with where they think I should send my film.
Kodak is obviously the best place, no doubt, after being convinced that Wal-Mart processing was cheap and not good enough. You know what, I believe them. And why shouldn't I? Most of these guys have dealt with both services to know better, and I'm here anyway to take good advice. Getting back to Pro8mm though, if you don't mind being treated like crap, then by all means buy their equipment and use their transfer service. But chances are there are better places to have your film done, and buy your cameras off of eBay.
Pro8mm is more or less a Hollywood service. It is available to you too, but it's kinda like working in a factory for 6 dollars an hour - basically to them you're a peon, and they make you pay out of the arse while completely disregarding you and your money.
Speaking of money, that was my 2 cents. Hope I made s o m e sense [img]smile.gif[/img]
Mike
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Well, the thing is that I've known Phil at Pro8mm since his days up in Cambridge, Mass when we was working for the old Super 8 Sound people. There was once a time when super 8 sound was about helping the independent super 8 producer. But those days have changed and Phil will be first to admit that their bread and butter is in providing funky, grainy super 8 images to the high budget music video producers in California and New York; people that DON'T want super 8 to look good. They want it to look like home movies and are not interested in fulfilling the potential of the 8mm format. In fact, they will do everything they can to undermine the image quality so that it looks markedly different than the surrounding 16mm or 35mm footage from the rest of the music video. Therefore, unlike most of us, they don't shoot super 8 because it can look like 16mm. The shoot super 8 because they want it look like super 8.
Pro8mm offers a viable product but not the product they used to when they were Super 8 Sound. The product they now sell is aimed at a different customer; one that has zero interest in making 8mm look good. Pro8mm makes far more money servicing their new clientel than they did in the old Super 8 Sound days. I say more power to them if they can make a buck. But anyone that thinks they can change the way Pro8mm does business is fighting a losing battle. If I was making money hand over fist, I wouldn't change to accomodate the exception. That would be bad business, regardless of how nobel it might be viewed.
So all the bellyaching about Pro8mm is like walking into a fish market and complaining that you can't find a decent T-bone steak. Given all the evidence, why would you think you could find a T-bone in a fish market to begin with? There's no good guy and no bad guy in the equation. They just don't sell what you want, it's just that simple.
Roger
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i want feedback to see if I should buy a sync classic pro8mm camera. As i understood there is a special software that i can use video to scan it to have its' film looks what is worth to have pro8mm camera?
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Finally someone put things in the right place.
Certainly most of us do not need P8 services or items but I still think it can be very useful to have access to them even if they mostly want to play with the big dudes trashing up S8 to "retro" look for them.
R
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 06, 2002 11:39 AM: Message edited by: S8 Booster ]</font>
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MovieStuff:
Well, the thing is that I've known Phil at Pro8mm since his days up in Cambridge, Mass when we was working for the old Super 8 Sound people. There was once a time when super 8 sound was about helping the independent super 8 producer.
Roger</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well then maybe they should change their advertising. It confuses people. Look at their nice, slick brochures. They offer the Kinoflex package and make it seem attractive to would-be filmmakers, stating that this is the way to "start out." They have a student rate program for processing reversal film (it's in small print, but it's there). They make it seem as if they cater to beginning filmmakers and pros alike.
If they only want to cater to the Hollywood DPs exclusively then they should change their advertising to reflect their outlook and attitude.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MovieStuff:
old Super 8 Sound people. </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
Speaking of the "old Super 8 Sound" -- I checked out some volumes of Super 8 Filmaker. I'm going to scan a bunch of articles and ads and put them on a website. It's so sad to see what a great, progressive company S8S once were with all sorts of custom-made, somewhat affordable devices to help out the filmmaker...and to see what they are now...
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Gosh.
I could open up my mouth and say so many things about Pro8mm (having worked there once)...
One thing I will say is not everybody that works there is bad, actually most of them are great people but you will never get to talk to them...
Thats because they work in the back.
I won't begin to tell you how many legal forms I had to sign before being hired...
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I can understand where pro8mm came from because it is only well known that can process damn colors negative that cost awfully. how can s8mm people make their movie since only damn kodachrome 40! Ektachrome is just a ok-ok! Jerome, deaf filmmaker
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I should of mentioned that almost everybody that works there is unhappy...even Richie (the man you spoke to). He's been with Phil practically since day one and makes a ton of cash, just like Phil and Rhonda. Phil and Rhonda are happy because they're making money off of ignorant film kids and companies that need a quick turnaround.
There are some really intelligent people that work there, especially the techs...Richard, Lance, old man Jerry...but for sales...they lack in that department.
Look guys, they don't care about your student films or your aspirations or your intentions to make super 8 great. All they care about is your MONEY. Period.
Why do you think they have Monika (the gatekeeper) working the front desk. She HATES film students (and men for that matter) and will gladly let you know about. If you have a complaint call for Richie. He's the only one that has a tiny bit of love for super 8 left in him.
Phil makes a tiny portion from selling his film, he makes his money off of transfering footage.
Thats why they cater to the professional market. Professional companies want a quick turnaround and will pay for it.
Jeff who works in the lab with Richie is a nice guy but is lazy...that's why your film got ruined.
I'll bet a roll of Kodachrome on it.
I think back now when I was fucking mopping their floors and cleaning out there chemical tanks...not to toot my own horn but look where I am now.
I don't hate Phil or Rhonda or Pro8mm for that matter...I came to LA broke and they gave me a job which led to where I am now.
Just be wise before you buy from them and consider other alternatives.
Kodak, ebay, and Roger are your best friends in Super 8, period.
Scott
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ November 08, 2002 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Hanthx ]</font>
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Thank you, Scott.
(PS. You still busy as a proverbial beaver these days? How did your student film go?)
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All of the above sounds like a great business plan. Just do what they did and not what they do now. Start your own.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Hanthx:
Gosh.
I could open up my mouth and say so many things about Pro8mm (having worked there once)...
One thing I will say is not everybody that works there is bad, actually most of them are great people but you will never get to talk to them...
Thats because they work in the back.
</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
Scott,
the one and only time I was there (to complain about the Velvia roll they RUINED) I had to wait for Richard. While I was waiting I sat and listened to the other staff members who were having some sort of meeting behind the front desk. They all seemed to be 18-22 year old kids without a clue. I'm not so sure I'd want to have my company run by these sorts. Maybe it is no wonder my film was processed in the wrong chemistry. I can't believe there was no log that would show who processed what when. But I will say when I finally got to meet Richard he seemed like a cool guy and looked properly disgusted when he saw my ruined roll.
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Hey Cal
Yah I'm rocking and rolling right now.
This is my last semester at school and work is hectic but no complaints.
That particular student project went okay but my personal creativity and involvement was null...holding a boom is not very complicated.
Just started shooting last week a trailer/sales tape for a script my film buddy and I wrote and it's going smooth although tiring...you know how it goes.
Can't wait to take a break and spend some time snoozing.
Cya around.
Scott
