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Here's a link for a pair of 511E's that look like converts,throats look long and Coating was hand applied but seller has stated all this.:confused:
VINTAGE ALTEC LANSING 511E HORNS - GORGEOUS! - eBay (item 230485528829 end time Jun-15-10 20:43:00 PDT)
Missing the rear mount:confused:
I REALLY think they are fake.
The BS about how hard and expensive Aquaplas is to get pretty much finishes it off for me.
I found it in less than 10 minutes on Google.
But is it the same stuff? I've seen it too.
Sorry for the threadjack.
Aquaplas used to be one product, now it is several.
Look for the Product formerly known as Aquaplas...on tour near you...:D
"AQUAPLAS DL-10Y is a water based liquid in a heavy paste-like consistency. Use on metal surfaces to reduce vibrations and impact noise. It can be trowelled or sprayed on directly from the drum, or applied robotically, without thinning and during application cleans up with water. A typical set-up to spray AQUAPLAS DL-10Y consists of a 30:1 airless pump, a reverse-a-clean airless gun with a 1/4" round nozzle. Weight of application on 18 gauge metal is .53 wet weight pound per square foot and .34 dry weight pound per square foot. An application rate of 1.5 lbs. per square foot of wet AQUAPLAS DL-10Y will give a dry thickness of 1/8". AQUAPLAS shrinks by 20% upon drying. Remember... AQUAPLAS is a functional material, not a paint; so do not thin it to attain greater coverage. Flame Spread Index 13 (ASTM E-84) Class A. Available in 5-gallon pails (55 lbs. net weight) and 55-gallon drums (540 lbs. net weight). Operating temperature range ?40F to 400F
5-Gallon Pails @ $209.00 each. 55-Gallon Drums @ $764.00 each."
Product Pricing and Description
There may be cheaper sources...
Now that 5 gallon price $209 is ridiculous when 55 gallon drums are $764 so if you multiply 5 x 11 = 55 gal and 11 x $209 = $2299
But anyway there is another product on tour called Antivibe-DL that is Aquaplas.:D OG I think you found this link awhile back.
http://www.wilrep.com/pdfformat/3603.pdf this product is $180 for 5 gal. pails from a place in Canada called Wilrep Inc.
They may well be the same stuff.
I think the anti-vibe might have been what I actually bought on reflection. It was a year or two back, I no longer have the container.
Blachford says they are the same product.Marketed under different names.Product formerly known as Aquaplas is now called Anti-Vibe DL.
By Trade/Chemical Names
Right. AntiVibe (name) replaced Aquaplas (name) many moons ago. There are ~equivalents available in the industrial market for up to 30% less, but in all cases, 1-5 gallon lots come at a premium compared to bulk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
The easiest-to-obtain equivalent (without freight expense) I've used can be found at a WW Grainger outlet;
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/1VDP3?Pid=search
Hmm... 5 gallon and one gallon buckets are cheap, maybe somebody could start a vending operation for small users.
Cool Thanks Brad:2thumbsup: ,I have one of those Grainger Outlets about a mile and a half from my home on Olden Ave.But always thought they were just electrical supply houses.As I deal with a different supply house never went in there.Have to put that on my itinerary.;) And Check it out.Did you actually use this stuff ?If so what were the results.Quote:
Originally Posted by bfish
Was also wondering about the stuff that is on sheets with an adhesive backing.Could that be used inside of DIY cabinets?And would you still need to add some insulation on top of it in a DIY cabinet for the woofer.
I've only used it in applications at my job. I work for a mechanical contractor, and some of our installations have to pass rigourous noise/vibration performance testing. When we have instances that are tested out of limits (by a 3rd party firm), we have to fix it. I've had our crews apply the Grainger compound in several cases, and it did the job in all. These were all ductwork/equipment panel applications, with offending noise in the ~1K-5K BW. Other applications (pumps, piping, etc.) usually require other solutions like foam/cork pads or isolation hangers.
To date, there's been no leftover material for me to bring home... :(
I'm sure the pads you mentioned are effective in their place, but I doubt that wood cabinets/LF apps would qualify as that place. For pad type of material, I use a constrained layer foam/foil product that GM turned me on to from Home Depot*. Way cheaper than damping compounds, and very cost effective on horns. It ain't pretty, but that's OK. (it's beatiful compared to the candle wax/peanut butter/mass-quantity-silicone...)
* http://www.homedepot.com/Building-Ma...atalogId=10053
I still use 'glass for cabinets, it's effective, cheap, easy to come by, and not nearly as hazardous as some would have you believe.
I'm confused........ the company that makes the renamed Aquaplas claims to be Canadian, and has only been around since the late 70's......... wasn't Altec using it MUCH earlier than that? Is this the case of concealing the manufacturer in favor of the marketing company, or purchasing the rights to a product? I just don't how this can be the same stuff unless there's more to the story.
Altec isn't the only company that's changed hands/ownership/structuring/location in the last 50 years... ;)
WirRep had roots with Blachford, which had roots with... all the way back to Germany and WWII.
"Secrets" have nothing to do with it. At one time, Aquaplas was a patented product, and trade rights were protected accordingly for the normal period. That period has been over for a long time.
I sincerely doubt that any of it is exactly the "same stuff" as produced 50 years ago... what is? All that matters is that it does the same job (or better).
"aspirin" used to be a Bayer trademark...
as did others...
http://theformofmoney.blogharbor.com/OpiumBayer.gif
I think it is kinda like what Altec did with Heathkit,and IPC where they were the manufacturer and allowed other companies to label them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio_by_Goodwill
Need to add an extra pail to the next job ;) That's what I figured glass has been used for a very long time and is still the material of choice for cabinets in most cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by bfish
But I think the formula is close enough to were it's damping characteristics are the same or better.As Noted ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bfish
Exactly.
"Aquaplas" isn't listed at the USPTO as a registered trade name for an acoustic product, even as a long-dead one. It was the product formulation that was protected under patent law for a period.
Added;
Don't be surprised if "AntiVibe" changes name again, especially if Stanley finds it in competition with its' trade name hammer handles.
People put waaay too much faith in a name.
Ok, I see....... It seems like this may be either a corporate purchase/sale situation, or a Klenex-tissue/Scotch-tape situation. .......or a little of both.
By Who? Didn't JBL use it too?Quote:
Originally Posted by bfish
By whoever held the patent. JBL used it, others used it, anyone could use it that wanted to buy some. They just couldn't make it and sell it themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio_by_Goodwill
The same was true for Kapton (polymide) coil forms for a while. And lots of other things.
That's pretty close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio_by_Goodwill
GPA made diaphragms using old Altec tooling and methods after the parent company quit doing it. They don't carry the Altec name, but what does it matter?
Actually, it does seem to matter to the buying public, due to their tendency to attach themselves to particular names. Some would buy a vintage horn over a new one because it has "real" Aquaplas. Just proves the old adage "A fool and his money are some party". :D
Added
(and why corporations are willing to pay for familiar trade names).
Exactly, And you could say why "Spark-O-Matic" bought the Altec Lansing name.It wasn't because they made great speakers or had a great line of products it was for reputation only.As people associated Altec with quality something they couldn't do on their own.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by bfish
So has anyone here sprayed this stuff? The PDF that I read speaks of a 3/4" line with a 1/4" nozzle, but that doesn't mean much to me. What kind of sprayer would have a 1/4" nozzle?
A reverse-a-clean spray gun airless sprayer.If that is any help I was looking for it myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio_by_Goodwill
Makes me wonder...there are cheap guns for spraying wall texture...:confused:
I honestly don't know if this would work...but when you mentioned the 1/4" nozzle...
Texture Paint Spray Gun
Three nozzle sizes: 3/16", 1/4" and 5/16"
Reverse-a-clean seems to be a kind of tip, not a kind of sprayer according to my Google searches. I'm guessing this is a tip used for one of the big sprayers that sits around/on-top-of a 5 gallon bucket.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
That was my initial thought as well OG. I've never used one..... looks like it would be heavy. $20 wouldn't be that big a deal to spend if it didn't work. Certainly cheaper than buying a used airless of sufficient size. The airless would likely be more useful to me in the long run, Though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
[QUOTE=Old Guy;1827028]Makes me wonder...there are cheap guns for spraying wall texture...:confused:
No that isn't the one.They use air pressure or a compressor.The aquaplas or antivibe uses a airless spray gun.The reverse a clean tip is a spray gun with a 1/4" nozzle here is the description.
AQUAPLAS DL-10Y is a water based liquid in a heavy paste-like consistency. Use on metal surfaces to reduce vibrations and impact noise. It can be trowelled or sprayed on directly from the drum, or applied robotically, without thinning and during application cleans up with water. A typical set-up to spray AQUAPLAS DL-10Y consists of a 30:1 airless pump, a reverse-a-clean airless gun with a 1/4" round nozzle.
Here's a good explanation.Go to page 5 down to e. Airless Spray
http://140.194.76.129/publications/e...2-3400/c-8.pdf
Where did you find this information? The PDF I read said air, not airless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
Unless you're considering drum quantities to paint your listening room, just brush it on. My guys can run through a 5 gallon bucket in about 45 minutes.
[quote=Altec Best;1827034]C'mon..where did I say or imply it WAS?Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
Think outside the box.
That PDF you quote is not a bible. It generally is written by somebody sitting in an office, repeating information conveyed to him/her.
Why do you assume the only thing that will work is what the manufacturer recommends?
Often many other approaches work. That $20 gun has the right size nozzle.
It is a gravity feed gun.
If you are willing to make a gentleman's bet, I will put up a C-note that I can make that gun spray that stuff.
Note it's range of pressures and that the material can be thinned.
I am not going to guarantee it will do a quality job, only that I can get it to work.
But for the cost...might be worth a try.
Yup. JBL and JBL DIYers thin it waay past mfrs recommendations and airbrush very thin coats on diaphragms that can benefit from a bit of damping (don't try it on your Altec 'frams!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
Geesh OG don't get so excited.All I said was that link with that spray gun is not the right one.It has a hopper on it for spraying (Dry) material ie:Popcorn onto a wet surface like paint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
The first part was from a link earlier in the thread that OG posted :D The second part (PDF) just google 30:1 airless sprayer reverse-a-cleanQuote:
Originally Posted by Audio_by_Goodwill
http://buildingnoisesolutions.com/No...e/Pricing.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
Why do I assume to do What a Manufacturer says.Because they should know how to use their product.Plus if you don't follow their recommendation on how to use their product and you have a problem and complain to them they will kindly show you the door.Ex. you buy a set of roller bearings manufacturer tells you to pack them with bearing grease.But you don't have any so you soak them in motor oil or WD-40 and 50 miles down the road they seize up on you.But recommendation clearly state's grease ?? Are you going to complain to the manufacturer or go out and buy new Bearings Again.That kind a thing is what I have run into.So yes I follow Manuf.Recomend.for a givin product.
I don't need to bet a $100 on it because I'm not a (Know it All):D But I'll take that gentleman's bet.But a even thick coat is required.Coming out in globs or spitting is not acceptable as working !!!
And it also shouldn't be thinned.Aquaplas is a functional material,not a paint.When you thin it you diminish it's dampening characteristics.
Product Pricing and Description
(OG) I am not going to guarantee it will do a quality job, only that I can get it to work.
OK if you won't guarantee a quality job then, "What Is The Point"
I personally am not interested in Cheap or fast.I want Quality and am willing to go the extra mile to that end.I have been there and done that before,and more often than not I would have to do over again.So more time and money so how much was I really saving.
You can rent one of these from your local paint shop or Homey D. for $20-$30 a day.You just may have to tweak the tip or gun/hose.And put a 1/4" nozzle on it.But this unit looks like the one right out of the box.
http://www.portlandcompressor.com/st...5-special.aspx
Or if you know someone who owns a paint shop you can borrow one for FREE !! :D My recommendation just bring it back Super Clean !!
Now let me check my wallet for a crispy C-note just in case I will be eating some crow for the foreseeable future.;) :D
I see, then it's two different products we're looking at. That link is for the DL-10Y, and I've been looking at the Anti-vibe DL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfish
Besides horns, I was thinking of vehicle floors............ and also thinking it might brush as horribly as UGL waterproofing paint for basement walls. I ended up rolling that.
Besides ease of application, I was hoping that spraying would give a closer to Altec factory finish.
Yeah I was wondering about the sheet stuff with the adhesive backing.I asked Bfish about it.But Glass insulation is probably the best for inside the DIY Cabinets that I inquired to him about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio_by_Goodwill
If I apply any on Horns (Aquaplas-Antivibe DL) anytime soon the only way to apply for me will be to spray it.It just looks a lot better IMO.And like you said closer to Altec factory finish.
What's so special about the "Altec factory finish"...?
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2010/06/3.jpg
Courtesy hifido
Looks more like a spackling brush job to me... :D
Factory finish certainly looks better than this !! :D DON'T IT ! ;)
I wonder why nobody has bid on those Beauties ! ;)
I will take a factory finish anyday of the week especially if it is in mint cond. :2thumbsup:
I may not pay huge amounts of cash for Western Electric wire or solder, but that doesn't mean I totally shun authenticity. That and I'd be more confident in my spraying skills than brush skills....... it's amazing how bad I can make something look with a brush. I think I could put brush marks in water.Quote:
Originally Posted by bfish
I understand.
The stuff has the consistency of soupy Portland cement or thick pancake batter though, so you'd have to work at it to leave brush strokes (like the eBay example). That's the reason for the 1/4" nozzle for spraying, anything less will plug. If I were to try to duplicate the factory finish, I'd brush the 1/4" functional coat, and follow with a "thrown" coat for the spackle effect.
I was kind of surprised when I saw the ebay horns....... I had assumed that the finish Altec horns normally had, was due to a chemical reaction of the compound. It appears that's not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by bfish
My 203b's seem to have voids, more than bumps. I suppose that could be perspective, Though. I do notice a difference between the two........ one seems to have had the edges troweled. Different people on the line, I suppose.