hi,
I found these altecs by accident - but what is the right one? a 12 inch 604?
best
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4505/11628810.jpg
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/6347/17636628.jpg
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hi,
I found these altecs by accident - but what is the right one? a 12 inch 604?
best
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4505/11628810.jpg
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/6347/17636628.jpg
601? What numbers can you read?
On the left, is that a 604-8G?
What do you mean you found them by accident? :)
I found them on a www-marketplace close by - unfortunately I can't read the text on the rear-lid. however I've never seen this speaker before. the quotation text mentions that it is a 12 inch 604-8-g (same as the 15 inch on the left) and it might be suit for 100 litre enclosures.
best,
I think it's a 601
Well, no. Maybe not. Horn isn't right.
http://www.michael.mardis.com/images/Ted-Heath.jpg
What appears to be a 604 motor on a 414 frame......... Factory 'hotrod'?
GM
Agree with GM, somebody built a "hot rod" 12 inch duplex.
Now, just slap those puppies in their own properly ported subenclosure, with a 411 sealed up in the bottom to fill out the low end.:D
Very intriguing. My thoughts exactly. Would surely like to find the source of this and get some information about the project of making that. Nice to know it's possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panomaniac
The 601, for future reference, does not have a driver on the back. The tweeter mag is in the base that bolts to the front. It will look like a 414 from the back.
Cast a third vote for custom build. It was discussed when I worked at Altec, I did what I could to encourage the product, to no avail. Nice to see somebody did it.
GPA prototype for the 212?
GM
If Bill want's to build me a pair with mantaray horn . I'm a buyer
Ah yes... Not the same frame either, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guy
From what I can dig up tonight, the original 601 was a 15" field coil. The A,B,C models were 12" of which there were different frames, one of which you see in the pic. Seems to be the same as the later 414 frame. Can't find anything like that "hot rod" motor so maybe Old Guy's encouragement finally came to fruition.
Pretty hot looking unit whatever it is.
If so that's one heck of a departure. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GM
Maybe it was a 617-8A that has had an alnico stuck on the back.
Note the frame colour and the magnet colour don't quite match on the 12".
Maybe the 8-Gs were a pair and the frame was busted, someone ordered the wrong replacement frame, mounted the magnet and voila!
Nice looking unit, quite unique I'd bet.
True, but you start with whatever existing components one has at hand...........Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Weldon
GM
617 is ceramic...Quote:
Originally Posted by magnarc
The idea/practice of swapping frames and motors around in the "altec family" isn't exactly new. I'm aware of more than one fella who has purchased non-working C and D model 604's, and painstakingly repainted the motors along with 16 inch frames from broken 421's, and effectively put together 604-8G clones that would be difficult for the typical buyer to discern from the real thing.
I suppose it was only a matter of time before they did it in the 12 inch frame.
How many 12 inch cone options currently exist? Various cones would make possible a range of "voicing".
I'm still trying to figure what would be the advantage of doing that with a 12" wouldn't they be real bass shy.A 604 can be bass shy if not in a pretty big enclosure.If they were used with a sub could be good I suppose.I think most Altec speakers using the 12" (414) use 2 with a small format HF driver.Just for that reason that they don't produce enough bass.Is this wrong ??? I just don't see the advantage of doing that with a 12" my thought would be to just use a real 604.I dunno :confused:
It works well if you are adding auxiliary bass units as the 12" can be crossed higher than the 15" and will offer higher power handling for the tweeter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
12" typically does the human voice better than 15".....many modern systems use subs, bass shy would not be an issue...
The small horn in the duplex would work with a 12" better IMHO...but again about opinions.:)
While i can't say what the dual woofer reasoning is/was, i can tell you that in the case of 9844's the dual woofer setup has a very equivalent polar response to the 811 horn at the XO point, with good XO's it's a seamless match to my ears.Quote:
I think most Altec speakers using the 12" (414) use 2 with a small format HF driver.Just for that reason that they don't produce enough bass.Is this wrong ??? I just don't see the advantage of doing that with a 12" my thought would be to just use a real 604.I dunno
IMO, the advantage of a 12 inch duplex is mostly in it's compact size. Used as the sole driver in a full range system, you could be looking at a pretty small(under 2 cuft?) package.
I would also think that the smaller/lower mass cone would improve transient response, not sure if the difference would be audible, but certainly attractive to the number crunchers.
Of course i think most of us Altec fans/tinkerers/hobbyists picture a 12 inch duplex as the upper 2/3 of a 3-way system. My thinking is that you could have a very substantial "extended" range system in a package about the size of a 620 cabinet using the 411 woofer in the bottom.
Many years ago, Peavey made a single box system(project four) that used a 12 inch BW duplex, and a 15 inch BW to fill out the bottom. At that time, it was one of the most substantial drum monitor/side fill boxes i'd heard. Not exactly hifi, but the SPL and coherence were amazing for any loudspeaker, let alone one wearing a "Peavey" badge. I'd love to hear a refined version of that design approach using Altec components.
Just my .02.......................................
Thanks Guys for the explanations that helps.All good points and good reasons for doing the mod.:2thumbsup:
It's all about getting the best blend between the woof/horn through the XO BW from a polar response POV, so for a nominally 15" driver this occurs in the 900-1200 Hz BW depending on the woofer's design and ~1300-1600 Hz for a 12" and why me and a very few others have been a 'broken record' about the 604 returning to a large enough horn/lower XO point as it was in its 'glory days' of the 601, 604B. From this we see that a 12" is the proper woofer size for the small horn/~1500 Hz XO that has dominated for most of the 604's career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
WRT to LF output, even the 604 needs a helper woofer to keep amplitude modulation distortion (AMD) below audibility at recording studio, piano bar SPLs if a low tuning is desired.
GM
You are correct,sir!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Weldon
However made the assumption he wasn't talking about that one since the discussion was about the 12.
I do need to be cautious however, as the conclusion you jump to may be your own.:D
Yes I tend toward the "inquiring minds want to know" side and until yesterday, I wasn't aware the original 601 was a field coil. So, while I'm not a "young guy" I am pleased to know I can still learn new things.
But you might come to a different conclusion. ;)
As our friend GM says: YMMV
Did you know that most of those were in a stamped steel basket?Quote:
I wasn't aware the original 601 was a field coil.
Sacre bleu! Say it's not true. Altec and stamped steel? My insides are hurting.
Cal, during the war years most of the Altec 15" baskets and all of the 12" (I think) were stamped steel, as all available aluminum was going into aircraft. Altec purchased these parts from Utah, who also produced drivers from the same parts during that period. Jim Lansing had begun his speaker business in Salt Lake City in the mid 1920s when Utah was still located there, so the business relationship may have been established then.
If anyone wants to learn more about the field coil Altec Lansing 601 and see some pictures, have a look at this thread:
Holy grail driver
BTW, the 601's horn was made much like the tar filled horns of the time only in miniature. Each cell was soldered together from sheet metal, with a beautiful brass throat casting. This horn is dimensionally similar to the 604 and 604B horn which followed soon after.
Cal, during the war years most of the Altec 15" baskets and all of the 12" (I think) were stamped steel, as all available aluminum was going into aircraft. Altec purchased these parts from Utah, who also produced drivers from the same parts during that period. Jim Lansing had begun his speaker business in Salt Lake City in the mid 1920s when Utah was still located there, so the business relationship may have been established then.
If anyone wants to learn more about the field coil Altec Lansing 601 and see some pictures, have a look at this thread:
Holy grail driver
BTW, the 601's horn was made much like the tar filled horns of the time only in miniature. Each cell was soldered together from sheet metal, with a beautiful brass throat casting. This horn is dimensionally similar to the 604 and 604B horn which followed soon after.
anyway - I'm wondering to purchase this odd 12" driver, also because it's quite close to my location. unfortunately the seller didn't reply until now. there is also no asking price mentioned - any suggestions about its value? - even if it is a 'hot rod'?
best,
I wouldn't hazard a guess at the value because of it's "uniqueness". I think a lot of folks will give it one look, make the assumption "that's not right" and move on. Secondly, there's no "market data" for any such beast like it.
The other thought this marriage has inspired is that the 414 frame was probably never designed to have a 35lb static load hanging off it's backside, i would provide internal bracing/support to bear much of the weight load in any installation.
just talk to this person,and see what he/she/it may let you have it for.Quote:
Originally Posted by baja
(then take more, and larger photos, and post 'em here.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
jerry springer, still (happy)?
http://a.imageshack.us/img217/8898/10105769268763.jpg
ok - meanwhile there was a reply from the owner - indeed it's a pair of 'hod rods': 604-8G motor built in a 602 basket. asking price: 800 $ / pair.
a pig in a poke? or worth to buy?
best,
Like any hotrod, it depends on who designed/built it. Done right, it seems a fair price to me, otherwise it's only worth whatever one is willing to gamble or its used piece parts value, i.e. its scrap metal plus whatever used HF diaphragms are worth.
GM
Agree. Think $800 is on the high side of fair. But if they really do work right, they might be worth it. Offer $650, cash. :)
+ 2 You will never get what there real value is worth since these are most likely "homebrew" mods.Even $600 wouldn't be unfair I think.For a resale value your buyer pool will be quite small and have a hard time reselling if need be.Can you listen to them first or are they being shipped ? Ask him if he still has the 15" baskets make it a package deal. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Panomaniac
I think scrap metal is more than a bit harsh. The motors could still be re-mounted to the proper frames........ They do just bolt on, like the 416's correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by GM
Think what you like, everyone's allowed an opinion.
I assume so, but don't know nor what it takes to create this particular hybrid.
GM
Could be like putting a V8 in a Pinto or a Vega or it could be like putting a V8 in a Datsun 2000. How you gonna know without a serious test drive?
Well here's what I'm thinking. It doesn't really matter what went into the hybrid if it doesn't work. The 604 motors and the horns are where the money is. Pick up some blown 416's or 421's for the frames and then it's just a fairly normal recone job. I suppose it's possible the 604 motors have been modified in some way......... maybe the diameter turned down? I think it's unlikely, Though.Quote:
Originally Posted by GM