heads or tails?

Planned Quran-burning could endanger troops, Petraeus warns - CNN.com

i dont understand this on two sides of the coin, ONE when another country or group of radicals burns american flags or KJV of the holy bible they want us to play it off like its nothing, this group wants to burn the quran (which im totally against) and they get warnings from government officials....... whose side are we on anyway? NOW*** WTF are they wanting to burn Qurans for? IT isnt every islamic person or Muslim person that wants the US to fold under and crumble, its extremists. I guess people are just ignorant of what is really going on, and im sure these people fall under the "nuke em all" crowd.

I will go with what John Boehner's quote:

House Minority Leader John Boehner reluctantly spoke out against the event, comparing it to the planned Islamic center near Ground Zero. "Well, listen, I just think it's not wise to do this in the face of what our country represents. ... Just because you have the right to do something in America, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do."

Wonder if we will hear any "moderate Muslims" telling their crowd that this is just a radical and not all Americans should be judged this way.:D

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Originally Posted by simple man

Wonder if we will hear any "moderate Muslims" telling their crowd that this is just a radical and not all Americans should be judged this way.:D

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of course not, but thats the horse **** we would be fed if they did something to us, they can behead our troops or some poor reporter from another country just because they look white and they get excused for it and we are supposed to accept that because we are supposed to be "better than that" its just a poor, sad situation the world is all to hell

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Originally Posted by Rocky

Planned Quran-burning could endanger troops, Petraeus warns - CNN.com

i dont understand this on two sides of the coin, ONE when another country or group of radicals burns american flags or KJV of the holy bible they want us to play it off like its nothing, this group wants to burn the quran (which im totally against) and they get warnings from government officials....... whose side are we on anyway?

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Well first of all, we aren't a Christian nation. Secondly, it's not like those flag-burners are being praised. And third, really can't compare the two IMO. They just got warnings from Petraus that this is the kind of thing that will **** off extremist over there and endanger our troops. These recent hate against Muslims here and incidents against Muslims are making up look ignorant, while fueling the fight. Further proves, we bring a lot of things on ourselves.

I don't see them as picking sides, just stating facts that it would, indeed endanger our troops lives.

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Originally Posted by 1inStripes

I will go with what John Boehner's quote:

House Minority Leader John Boehner reluctantly spoke out against the event, comparing it to the planned Islamic center near Ground Zero. "Well, listen, I just think it's not wise to do this in the face of what our country represents. ... Just because you have the right to do something in America, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do."

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Again, apples and oranges. And another thing is...

the open burning of books is not allowed under Gainesville's burning ordinance.

So they don't really have a right to.

Florida Pastor Terry Jones Still Plans Quran Burning - WSJ.com

As for having a right or not, I do find it funny the position it has put the ACLU in. Also, just read the article. If you want to set here and say we pull all this on ourselves I don't know what to say. A large portion of the eastern world (especially Muslim) are irrational. The US has stuck out more olive branches, and turned more cheeks than Muslim countries do, especially those with leaders like Iran.

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Originally Posted by 1inStripes

Florida Pastor Terry Jones Still Plans Quran Burning - WSJ.com

As for having a right or not, I do find it funny the position it has put the ACLU in. Also, just read the article. If you want to set here and say we pull all this on ourselves I don't know what to say. A large portion of the eastern world (especially Muslim) are irrational. The US has stuck out more olive branches, and turned more cheeks than Muslim countries do, especially those with leaders like Iran.

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I didn't say we "pull all this on ourselves", I said we bring a lot of it and I'll stand by that completely. Our meddling in the ME over the decades has created a lot of enemies, then idiots doing stupid things like this at home and along with other things. That's certainly true though, a lot of them are, but their irrationality wasn't something they were born with, it again comes back on us a lot of times as to why that is the case. Yeah and a lot of our olive branches had strings attached to them, figuratively speaking of course. "We can have peace, if you do what we want" doesn't go over too well.

[QUOTE=R13;1835208 Our meddling in the ME over the decades has created a lot of enemies, then idiots doing stupid things like this at home and along with other things[/QUOTE]

i know you dont care but everything we did in the ME started way before the "nucular" (poor george) era. we were over there helping afghanistan when they needed it, helping Iran when they needed it, Helping the people of Iraq when they needed it, and no matter what we did they still hated us. we never really wanted to go over there "pre desert storm" but we were asked to help out and we did. Its sad to say that the people we helped then are now the ones killing our men and women on a daily basis.

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Originally Posted by rocky

i know you dont care but everything we did in the me started way before the "nucular" (poor george) era. We were over there helping afghanistan when they needed it, helping iran when they needed it, helping the people of iraq when they needed it, and no matter what we did they still hated us. We never really wanted to go over there "pre desert storm" but we were asked to help out and we did. Its sad to say that the people we helped then are now the ones killing our men and women on a daily basis.

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bingo.

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Originally Posted by Rocky

i know you dont care but everything we did in the ME started way before the "nucular" (poor george) era. we were over there helping afghanistan when they needed it, helping Iran when they needed it, Helping the people of Iraq when they needed it, and no matter what we did they still hated us. we never really wanted to go over there "pre desert storm" but we were asked to help out and we did. Its sad to say that the people we helped then are now the ones killing our men and women on a daily basis.

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Who said it didn't start before Bush? Of course it did. Our helping hand, was rarely and is rarely out of the kindness of our heart, there's always something big in it for us. We try to police the world when it's beneficial to us, then we make enemies.

Hatred of the US probably began with WWI when we helped in fighting against the Ottoman Empire and first took us into present day Iraq. Since then the US has been more than helpful in coming to their defense in those areas only to because it was of greater interest at the time than to allow Russia to possibly take over more land, or to help smaller areas like Kuwait from take overs from other Muslim countries (ie. Iraq). Basically, have we been perfect, NO. But, we have been much more help and tolerant of their ways than they have been of ours.

IMO the post WWII creation of the state of Israel is the root of the US and Britan's problems in the Middle East.

That has a huge impact, but Britain owned the land could hand it over to whoever they wanted if they didn't want the land anymore. There was an offer in place for a Palestianian state as well but they would not accept it.

It really comes down to fear. The argument against this group expressing their freedom of speech is base on fear. Fear of the reaction of radicals. Do we really want to buckle to fear? That's a slippery slope that could lead to many of our freedoms being compromised. It doesn't matter what I think or what you think about them burning copies of the Koran, what really matters is that he has a right to do it and instead of it being ignored for the most part, as it should be, we are hearing cries from every corner for it not to happen! These cries all have a common thread.....fear. Have we really fallen that far? That we as a nation would cower in fear because of what a few radical morons might do? Radicals can not, must not, be allowed to dictate our freedom to us.

I'm not against it due to a possible Islamic backlash, I'm against it because mass burning of any kind of books due to their subject matter by anyone is inherently dumb and disrespectful. Dumb because if you burn one copy of this book, it's not going to make it unavailable altogether--especially in today's internet age and time of international travel/commerce...you're going to still be able to find 100 copies of the Koran for every 1 that Jones and his church would have burnt. It's patently disrespectful because if there was a Muslim mosque declaring a Bible Burning Day on 9/11, then we'd all be aghast by the sentiment that conveys from Muslims toward Christians and how disrespectful it is...but now the shoe's on the other foot...and somehow it's fear driven?

If you want freedom of religion, there's a certain modicum of respect you should have not only for your religion, but for others as well. The same premise as the old "your right to swing your fist ends at the other man's nose".

I, for one, wish we could see more examples in our society like this one:

Memphis Area Muslims Worshiping At Christian Church During Ramadan|myEyewitnessNews.com, Memphis News, Entertainment, Videos, Business Search and Shopping

If you're religious, love your country, and most importantly, your American neighbors regardless of how they worship...then you can't help but be moved at the sentiment expressed through that story. Are these people at Heartsong doing this out of love of their fellow American and out of respect of their rights as Americans to worship...or are they doing THIS out of fear of retaliation by an extremist Muslim group? I'm pretty sure the former fits here and the latter is the furtherest thing from the truth.

Simply put--freedom of religion, and separation of church & state. I've harped on that a lot lately, because the ideas of both have either been forgotten by most, or ba$tardized to the point of nonrecognition in furtherance of an agenda by the rest. We need to refocus.

If it endangers our troops lives and gives al qaeda more fuel, then yes, "cave" if that's how you want to put it. Takes a little common sense to see what this would do, as everyone to Obama, Clinton, Petraeus and many others have said, it will give them more tools. When someone does something this stupid and it makes the news, that's all they see over there and elsewhere, sort of like what we see on the news when some of them burn a flag or something...we think that it's more widespread than it really is. Fear isn't dictating anything, logic and common sense is.

The nut pastor said he's talked with Gates and with the Inam in NYC to negotiate that mosques being moved, of course this has been denied and has no basis to it, but as of right now he's called off the burning.

Florida pastor calls off burning of Qurans - CNN.com

Well after he was called on his lie, that the mosque isn't going to be moved, he's considering doing the burning again.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/09/flo...ex.html?hpt=T1

If he is going to burn the Qurans then he should be the one to suffer, not everyone else. No one is striking the match for him. No one should take it out on innocent Americans who have nothing to do with this moron. Its stupid. Books (Bible, Qurans, etc.) no matter what they are, shouldn't equal to the loss of human lives.

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Originally Posted by R13

If it endangers our troops lives and gives al qaeda more fuel, then yes, "cave" if that's how you want to put it. Takes a little common sense to see what this would do, as everyone to Obama, Clinton, Petraeus and many others have said, it will give them more tools. When someone does something this stupid and it makes the news, that's all they see over there and elsewhere, sort of like what we see on the news when some of them burn a flag or something...we think that it's more widespread than it really is. Fear isn't dictating anything, logic and common sense is.

The nut pastor said he's talked with Gates and with the Inam in NYC to negotiate that mosques being moved, of course this has been denied and has no basis to it, but as of right now he's called off the burning.

Florida pastor calls off burning of Qurans - CNN.com

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thing about it is though man thats all they see and hear on their broadcasts anyway is about how we are baby raping homicidal sodomites that want to eat their children, and no, im not exaggerating on any of that, its fed to them constantly so it really wouldnt matter what happened they are going to hear worse things anyway. i just wish people werent this stupid altogether. its ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by CoeburnCane

I'm not against it due to a possible Islamic backlash, I'm against it because mass burning of any kind of books due to their subject matter by anyone is inherently dumb and disrespectful. Dumb because if you burn one copy of this book, it's not going to make it unavailable altogether--especially in today's internet age and time of international travel/commerce...you're going to still be able to find 100 copies of the Koran for every 1 that Jones and his church would have burnt. It's patently disrespectful because if there was a Muslim mosque declaring a Bible Burning Day on 9/11, then we'd all be aghast by the sentiment that conveys from Muslims toward Christians and how disrespectful it is...but now the shoe's on the other foot...and somehow it's fear driven?

If you want freedom of religion, there's a certain modicum of respect you should have not only for your religion, but for others as well. The same premise as the old "your right to swing your fist ends at the other man's nose".

I, for one, wish we could see more examples in our society like this one:

Memphis Area Muslims Worshiping At Christian Church During Ramadan|myEyewitnessNews.com, Memphis News, Entertainment, Videos, Business Search and Shopping

If you're religious, love your country, and most importantly, your American neighbors regardless of how they worship...then you can't help but be moved at the sentiment expressed through that story. Are these people at Heartsong doing this out of love of their fellow American and out of respect of their rights as Americans to worship...or are they doing THIS out of fear of retaliation by an extremist Muslim group? I'm pretty sure the former fits here and the latter is the furtherest thing from the truth.

Simply put--freedom of religion, and separation of church & state. I've harped on that a lot lately, because the ideas of both have either been forgotten by most, or ba$tardized to the point of nonrecognition in furtherance of an agenda by the rest. We need to refocus.

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Nice, but wrong. Or as Andy Griffith would say, "Ain't that just about the prettiest thing you ever did hear...of course it's a crock of bull....but plum pretty."

Seems no one other than you is denying that fear is a major, if not primary, factor in their opposition to one off center character wanting to express his freedom of speech, be it tasteless or not. Fear of reprisal is mentioned by nearly every public official who has spoken out against it.

BTW, many Muslim countries do regularly seize, shred, and burn Bibles. this did receive some minor attention when done in Saudi Arabia recently to some Bibles taken from tourists, but it's not isolated to there. You don't hear a huge outcry from the Christian community, and certainly not from the public in general. Even though this action being sponsored by the government is far uglier than one nut "expressing" himself and exercising his right to freedom of speech.

Bibles are burned, shredded, ripped apart, urinated on, and destroyed in other demeaning ways regularly right here. Guess what? No major outcry, and there shouldn't be. It's stupid, but they have a perfect right to "express" themselves, just like this guy.

Of course we are talking about a religion who's followers went nuclear over some cartoons........

Well the "pastor" got his attention, but a few others wanted theirs and carried out destroying some Korans.

A group of tea-baggers ripped pages from it in front of the White House.

Six Christians rip pages from Koran in White House stunt - Yahoo! News


And an idiot lit one up near ground zero.

Man ignites Koran near Ground Zero, apparently prompted by Terry Jones; crowd appalled by zealot

Also, some idiot smeared feces a Koran, burned it and left it an the entrance at a Mosques in Michigan.

Burned Quran smeared with feces found at East Lansing mosque | detnews.com | The Detroit News


I think those were sparked by the loony in Florida claiming what he would do and I wonder if we can look for this in years to come, especially next year on the 10th anniversary.

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Originally Posted by R13

Well the "pastor" got his attention, but a few others wanted theirs and carried out destroying some Korans.

A group of tea-baggers ripped pages from it in front of the White House.

Six Christians rip pages from Koran in White House stunt - Yahoo! News


And an idiot lit one up near ground zero.

Man ignites Koran near Ground Zero, apparently prompted by Terry Jones; crowd appalled by zealot

Also, some idiot smeared feces a Koran, burned it and left it an the entrance at a Mosques in Michigan.

Burned Quran smeared with feces found at East Lansing mosque | detnews.com | The Detroit News


I think those were sparked by the loony in Florida claiming what he would do and I wonder if we can look for this in years to come, especially next year on the 10th anniversary.

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"idiots" burn bibles and American flags every day, so id say once a year for koran burnings sounds about right on the idiot time table.