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I don't get why this is a National Holiday. Its for a guy who didn't discover America, never stepped foot here, couldn't read a compass to save his life and stumbled on land he didn't even know was there. But most of all, he tortured and murdered countless Natives and brought disease here to wipe out countless more. With his religious conquest and egotistical maniac self, he should be looked at as the other scum we all look down on, yet he has a holiday? Puzzles me.
Ahh, but he did step foot on the Americas, Venezuela to be exact, and Mexico.
MAY 9, 1502-NOV. 7,1504
He never stepped foot in the North American mainland, so no he did not step foot in Mexico, not really that close to Mexico either. He went to South America and Central America, the guy never even came here.
On his FOURTH TRIP he set foot in Mexico, I don't know about you, but when I took Geography/History, Mexico was part of the North American Mainland.Quote:
Originally Posted by R13
MAY 9-1502-NOV.7-1504
Of course Mexico is part of North America, but he didn't go to Mexico.
See Mexico?
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See where he went?
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Link doesn't work.
This one does though.
Before leaving for his fourth voyage, Columbus wrote a letter to the Governors of the Bank of St. George, Genoa, dated at Seville, 2 April 1502.[48] He wrote "Although my body is here my heart is always near you."[49]
Columbus made a fourth voyage nominally in search of the Strait of Malacca to the Indian Ocean. Accompanied by his brother Bartolomeo and his 13-year-old son Fernando, he left C?diz, (modern Spain), on 11 May 1502, with the ships Capitana, Gallega, Vizca?na and Santiago de Palos. He sailed to Arzila on the Moroccan coast to rescue Portuguese soldiers whom he had heard were under siege by the Moors. On June 15, they landed at Carbet on the island of Martinique (Martinica). A hurricane was brewing, so he continued on, hoping to find shelter on Hispaniola. He arrived at Santo Domingo on 29 June but was denied port, and the new governor refused to listen to his storm prediction. Instead, while Columbus's ships sheltered at the mouth of the Rio Jaina, the first Spanish treasure fleet sailed into the hurricane. Columbus's ships survived with only minor damage, while twenty-nine of the thirty ships in the governor's fleet were lost to the 1 July storm. In addition to the ships, 500 lives (including that of the governor, Francisco de Bobadilla) and an immense cargo of gold were surrendered to the sea.
After a brief stop at Jamaica, Columbus sailed to Central America, arriving at Guanaja (Isla de Pinos) in the Bay Islands off the coast of Honduras on 30 July. Here Bartolomeo found native merchants and a large canoe, which was described as "long as a galley" and was filled with cargo. On 14 August he landed on the continental mainland at Puerto Castilla, near Trujillo, Honduras. He spent two months exploring the coasts of Honduras, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica, before arriving in Almirante Bay, Panama on 16 October.
Columbus impresses natives by predicting lunar eclipse
On 5 December 1502, Columbus and his crew found themselves in a storm unlike any they had ever experienced. In his journal Columbus writes,
For nine days I was as one lost, without hope of life. Eyes never beheld the sea so angry, so high, so covered with foam. The wind not only prevented our progress, but offered no opportunity to run behind any headland for shelter; hence we were forced to keep out in this bloody ocean, seething like a pot on a hot fire. Never did the sky look more terrible; for one whole day and night it blazed like a furnace, and the lightning broke with such violence that each time I wondered if it had carried off my spars and sails; the flashes came with such fury and frightfulness that we all thought that the ship would be blasted. All this time the water never ceased to fall from the sky; I do not say it rained, for it was like another deluge. The men were so worn out that they longed for death to end their dreadful suffering.[50]
In Panama, Columbus learned from the natives of gold and a strait to another ocean. After much exploration, in January 1503 he established a garrison at the mouth of the Rio Belen. On 6 April one of the ships became stranded in the river. At the same time, the garrison was attacked, and the other ships were damaged (Shipworms also damaged the ships in tropical waters.[51]). Columbus left for Hispaniola on 16 April heading north. On 10 May he sighted the Cayman Islands, naming them "Las Tortugas" after the numerous sea turtles there. His ships next sustained more damage in a storm off the coast of Cuba. Unable to travel farther, on 25 June 1503 they were beached in St. Ann's Bay, Jamaica.
For a year Columbus and his men remained stranded on Jamaica. A Spaniard, Diego Mendez, and some natives paddled a canoe to get help from Hispaniola. That island's governor, Nicol?s de Ovando y C?ceres, detested Columbus and obstructed all efforts to rescue him and his men. In the meantime Columbus, in a desperate effort to induce the natives to continue provisioning him and his hungry men, successfully won the favor of the natives by correctly predicting a lunar eclipse for 29 February 1504, using the Ephemeris of the German astronomer Regiomontanus.[52] Help finally arrived, no thanks to the governor, on 29 June 1504, and Columbus and his men arrived in Sanl?car, Spain, on 7 November.
Governorship and arrest
During Columbus's stint as governor and viceroy, he had been accused of governing tyrannically. Columbus was physically and mentally exhausted; his body was wracked by arthritis and his eyes by ophthalmia. In October 1499, he sent two ships to Spain, asking the Court of Spain to appoint a royal commissioner to help him govern.
The Court appointed Francisco de Bobadilla, a member of the Order of Calatrava; however, his authority stretched far beyond what Columbus had requested. Bobadilla was given total control as governor from 1500 until his death in 1502. Arriving in Santo Domingo while Columbus was away, Bobadilla was immediately peppered with complaints about all three Columbus brothers: Christopher, Bartolom?, and Diego. Consuelo Varela, a Spanish historian, states: "Even those who loved him [Columbus] had to admit the atrocities that had taken place."[53][54]
Columbus before the Queen, imagined[55] by Emanuel Gottlieb Leutze, 1843
As a result of these testimonies and without being allowed a word in his own defense, Columbus, upon his return, had manacles placed on his arms and chains on his feet and was cast into prison to await return to Spain. He was 53 years old.
On 1 October 1500, Columbus and his two brothers, likewise in chains, were sent back to Spain. Once in C?diz, a grieving Columbus wrote to a friend at court:
It is now seventeen years since I came to serve these princes with the Enterprise of the Indies. They made me pass eight of them in discussion, and at the end rejected it as a thing of jest. Nevertheless I persisted therein... Over there I have placed under their sovereignty more land than there is in Africa and Europe, and more than 1,700 islands... In seven years I, by the divine will, made that conquest. At a time when I was entitled to expect rewards and retirement, I was incontinently arrested and sent home loaded with chains... The accusation was brought out of malice on the basis of charges made by civilians who had revolted and wished to take possession on the land.... I beg your graces, with the zeal of faithful Christians in whom their Highnesses have confidence, to read all my papers, and to consider how I, who came from so far to serve these princes... now at the end of my days have been despoiled of my honor and my property without cause, wherein is neither justice nor mercy.[56]
According to an uncatalogued document supposedly discovered very late in history purporting to be a record of Columbus' trial which contained the alleged testimony of 23 witnesses claiming that Columbus regularly used barbaric acts of torture to govern Hispaniola.[47]
Columbus and his brothers lingered in jail for six weeks before busy King Ferdinand ordered their release. Not long after, the king and queen summoned the Columbus brothers to the Alhambra palace in Granada. There the royal couple heard the brothers' pleas; restored their freedom and wealth; and, after much persuasion, agreed to fund Columbus's fourth voyage. But the door was firmly shut on Columbus's role as governor. Henceforth Nicol?s de Ovando y C?ceres was to be the new governor of the West Indies.
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<a href="" title="Wikipedia (Links)" target="_blank">Wikipedia (Links)</a>
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<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus" target="_blank" title="Christopher_Columbus"><img src="images/misc/wikipedia_icon.gif" border="0" alt="Christopher_Columbus" /> Christopher_Columbus</a>
</div>]Christopher Columbus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
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Show me where he landed in Mexico?
use the html.Quote:
Originally Posted by centennialdawg
please do not give me this Columbus crap.
its symbolic. if you dont recognize Columbus day then you should not recognize any holiday in america, its no worse nor better than any other holiday we have created.
It just doesn't work, he didn't even go there. I've posted links and maps of his voyage, closest he got was Central America.Quote:
Originally Posted by centennialdawg
Who said a lot of them weren't bogus too? There's absolutely no reason a murderer who never even came here, should have a National Holiday, it's the worst of them all and completely pointless. I'm all for having one for the discovery of America, but at least get the right guy and not one that was a maniac.Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeebaseball
Not that I have a horse in this race or anything, but you all are arguing over if a guy that an United States holiday is named after came to Mexico or Central America?
I just made the point that he's never been here(North America) and he's the one that said he has, which is obviously wrong. It's not a big deal to me, but if he's going to try to call me out on something, at least get your facts straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by red66
Christopher Columbus: Explorer - EnchantedLearning.com
I tried this and it works. Read about his 4th trip.
Lol that's what that was a link to? Wow.Quote:
Originally Posted by centennialdawg
Here you go, besides all the other info I've posted, here's some more real info.
The Fourth New World Voyage of Christopher Columbus
In the early modern period, the voyages of Christopher Columbus initiated European exploration and colonization of the American continents, and are thus of great significance in Western history. Christopher Columbus was a navigator and an admiral for the Crown of Castile, that later became part of Spain. He made four voyages to America, with his first in 1492, which resulted in what is widely referred to as the Discovery of America[1] or Discovery of the Americas.[2][3] He did not actually reach the mainland until his third voyage, in 1498, when he reached South America, and the fourth voyage, when he reached Central America.
[ame=<div style="display: none;" id="ame_noshow_post_1286846245_2">
<a href="" title="Wikipedia (Links)" target="_blank">Wikipedia (Links)</a>
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<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyages_of_Christopher_Columbus" target="_blank" title="Voyages_of_Christopher_Columbus"><img src="images/misc/wikipedia_icon.gif" border="0" alt="Voyages_of_Christopher_Columbus" /> Voyages_of_Christopher_Columbus</a>
</div>]Voyages of Christopher Columbus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Christopher Columbus Fourth Voyage
Very informative posts I learned plenty today I can take tomorrow off. :flagwaver:
I took off today because its Canada's Thanksgiving and I hate Canadiens.
Seems like you are in an argumentative mood today Raider13. First wishing someone to get hurt because you are jealous and now trying to make the entire United States think they are celebrating a lost cause. Well done Raider... well done. Im sure Norton is proud of you!
Lol give me a break, you all are a riot. If you go back and look, I didn't start either one of those arguments. Jealous? I just don't like his attention-whoring and others have said much worse about him. And I was just asking why do we have a holiday for a murder who didn't step foot here?
You are right. you didnt start any of this. Its everyone else.
Call me blonde but I'm not sure how the above line of thinking works...Quote:
Originally Posted by R13
Don't even try to turn this into me saying "I never start anything", because that's not what I was saying. I mean I didn't start these.Quote:
Originally Posted by basketballguy
What do you mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by imported_elp6n
You said in the same breath that he never set foot here but that he also murdered and tortured the natives hereQuote:
Originally Posted by R13
elp for the WIN!!!! haha
i didnt want to say it, im glad you did.Quote:
Originally Posted by imported_elp6n
I do not celebrate anyone in American History that killed, or abused the Natives here. I probably hate Andrew Jackson more than most of them. His ignorance wiped out over half the Cherokee population. Just wish more of those types got what they deserved like General Armstrong Custard did. I like many others in this area have quite a bit of Cherokee Ancestory. Native Americans were treated worse than any other race in American history. I just can not see the justice in catering to the Black race so much but when a Native American tries to speak out he is thought of as another stupid Indian. Redskin is thought of by many Natives as one of the most hurtful racial names out there but America refuses to have Washington change it. Washington is our Nations Capitol yet has a football team with a very racist name! What kind of message is that? Not all of the sports teams out there with Native type names are bad though. Names like Braves, Seminoles, Warriors, and even Indians are not so bad but the name Redskin to many of us is just as bad as the "N" word is to blacks. Why does America kiss the asses of one race of people but continue to **** all over the very race they treated the worst? How many times in history did American soldiers slaughter every woman and child they saw of the black race, scalp them, and cut out the womens wombs to wear on their hats? They would have their outfits decorated with scalps and wombs as they would march through towns being cheered on for what they had done. I also do not see the justice in all the fuss about taking down the Confederate flag throughout the South when our very own American flag was waving proudly when the Natives men, women, an CHILDREN were slaughtered throughout this country. Not saying the American flag stands for that now but trying to point out that the Confederate flag does not stand for slavery to everyone. Those flags to me both stand for all the GOOD men and women that died for their countries. Guess I better stop rambling on. I apologize for going on like this but Native American History is a very tender subject to me.
I didn't say "here", I said murdered and tortured countless Natives - natives to the areas he did land on.Quote:
Originally Posted by imported_elp6n
Quote:
Originally Posted by R13
Just sayin'Quote:
he tortured and murdered countless Natives and brought disease here
He did bring disease here. With the thousands of settlers that settled here and moved into the land.Quote:
Originally Posted by imported_elp6n
therefore, Henry Ford has murdered thousands of ppl. because he invented the car
(don't argue the invented part... this is an analogy).
Hence, making the reasoning for the holiday because he led to the European settlements throughout all Americas with his discovery of these lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by R13
So, what should we have? Vespucci Day? Rolfe/Smith Day?
Ericsson Day gets my vote.
Okay we'll throw disease out since that seems to have been okay and just credit the murders of the Natives he ordered to be carried out - he killed many people, even his own crew for not following orders.Quote:
Originally Posted by VHSLhelper
His men moved in and took over the lands and continued all over, why should he be rewarded for that? He didn't do anything, hell he didn't even claim the land for Spain didn't he? The guy was convinced until he died that he was on the coast of Asia. He didn't lead really anything, he stumbled on South/Cental America and left some men there, only here would someone get a holiday for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1inStripes
Ericson would get my vote, hell him even John Cabot besides Columbus. Columbus did absolutely nothing and was one of the ****tiest human beings while doing what he did do, yet he has a holiday?Quote:
Originally Posted by VHSLhelper
He didn't lead to anything? He just stumbled upon it is true, but his stumbling led to the immigration of thousands to the Americas.
They have been trying to do that to gun makers for years now.:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by VHSLhelper
Quote:
Originally Posted by R13
this is almost hard to do today bud............... i agree totally with that statement
Idiot :mooning:Quote:
Originally Posted by R13