speaker system for small room

Greetings - new guy here. I'm trying to decide what speakers would be best to build for a 10 x 18 room. The speakers would be on the narrow side and I would sit in the middle. Right now I'm using 615As in big custom boxes. These are ceiling speakers that are a lot like 604s less 4db efficiency and with a teardrop shaped horn that messes up the imaging to my ears. Bill at GPA said he could install new 604 horns on them but the cones might get damaged in the process and need to be replaced. I could then build a 620 type speaker or I could leave them alone and use them as a woofers in a model 19 type cabinet with a set of 811b/806As that I have. I have several 414-16Cs that I could use with those horns also. I also have one 604E so I could buy or trade for another one of those. I will be using a Fisher X-101-d integrated amp that I still have to fix. I know - it's a lot to digest. I'm sure there are many different opinions but I'd be grateful to hear what anyone thinks. Thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slowbrain

Greetings - new guy here. I'm trying to decide what speakers would be best to build for a 10 x 18 room. The speakers would be on the narrow side and I would sit in the middle. Right now I'm using 615As in big custom boxes. These are ceiling speakers that are a lot like 604s less 4db efficiency and with a teardrop shaped horn that messes up the imaging to my ears. Bill at GPA said he could install new 604 horns on them but the cones might get damaged in the process and need to be replaced. I could then build a 620 type speaker or I could leave them alone and use them as a woofers in a model 19 type cabinet with a set of 811b/806As that I have. I have several 414-16Cs that I could use with those horns also. I also have one 604E so I could buy or trade for another one of those. I will be using a Fisher X-101-d integrated amp that I still have to fix. I know - it's a lot to digest. I'm sure there are many different opinions but I'd be grateful to hear what anyone thinks. Thanks

---

FWIW, I would either sell whatever you have extra and get a set of 416's, new or old and build some Model 19 clones with your 806A's (re-phragmmed to an 802 if possible), or do whatever you need to get a pair of 604's old or new in a 620 or similar sized box.

Of course you'd have to come up with a crossover, but there is a lot of information on either type on this forum....:2thumbsup:

I would get the 615 fixed and put them in a 612 cabinet,

604's in 620's work well. OR those 414's use 2 per cab with a 806/811 that you have ala 9844's.Now these suggestions are for just the drivers that you have already but if you are willing to purchase new from Bill then you could build just about anything.:)

The Altec 615 is not a bad speaker. The horn is 90 degree conical as opposed to the tighter 614 horn.

One caveat...the HF is intentionally rolled off in the crossover unit. Here is a case where upgrading the crossover would be the first place I would start.

Conical horns tighten in pattern in the HF. IE a 90 degree at 2 k is going to be tighter at 10K.

What I would try first, yer mileage may vary, is converting the drivers to 802 specs.... take off the cap, and felt line the rear cover.

I would then pick out a suitable mid, and go (sacrilege!) 3 way, using the conical horn above say, 6K. That would tighten it's pattern.

I would hate to see the 615's changed out...but if you do, save the parts. Somebody may wanna change them back someday.

Of course, from strictly a financial viewpoint, the 615 may be worth more changed out.

But I would balance selling them and buying 604's against what it will cost to change.

Regardless, trying them stock with a better crossover, or rebuilding the crossovers you have, leaving out the extra parts, may solve a great deal of your issues. I would really try that before you off them.

I failed to mention that the crossovers on my custom 615s have already been tweeked. I bought the speakers from a rather famous Altec 604 crossover guru that I used to work with. He was really just getting into Altecs at that time and I don't know exactly what was done since the whole thing is stuffed into the original can and covered with silicone. I know what you mean about modifying classic gear which is one reason why I thought about using them as woofers but as Bill from GPA said "seems like a waste". As far as value goes GPA has them on EBAY for $1k a pair which I don't think could be improved on. For 9844s what is the advantage to two 414s? In such a small room it seems one would be enough and that the imaging would be better but not as much bass or efficiency. Thanks guys.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slowbrain

For 9844s what is the advantage to two 414s? In such a small room it seems one would be enough and that the imaging would be better but not as much bass or efficiency. Thanks guys.

---

Well you had mentioned you have 615's in custom BIG boxes or that you could build 620's.If your room is so small Why? would you want to build such big boxes then ?

If you are going to use a 806/802 compression driver and 414's you have to use 2 because the HF driver would over power a single 414. Tonally it would be all Mid to High Frequencies and would sound off IMHO .That's why you would need to have 2 414's but if you got a 416 a single would be enough. Good Luck with your project !!

I have only one LF driver per side in a 9844. I''m using a high band pass cap of around 3uf (GM's suggestion) So I can tone down the mid freqs. using the attenuators so that the HF drivers don't over-power the LF output and still have a balanced HF output. (no harsh mid freqs.now / closer to my 19's) Of coarse as you said, you'll lose a little efficiency! But you could use the 414's and the 811's/806's you have right now with the mid freqs. attenuated. (minimal cost) Just another .02

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altec Best

Well you had mentioned you have 615's in custom BIG boxes or that you could build 620's.If your room is so small Why? would you want to build such big boxes then ?

---

I'm conflicted! I really just want what sounds best (per my budget) for this room. A7s would be too big. I've never seen 19s but I think I could modify the design to fit in the corners a la Billfort. I need to make a decision though because I'm losing sleep. Thanks for your help.

My design with 414z and 808A

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slowbrain

I'm conflicted! I really just want what sounds best (per my budget) for this room. A7s would be too big. I've never seen 19s but I think I could modify the design to fit in the corners a la Billfort. I need to make a decision though because I'm losing sleep. Thanks for your help.

---

Your welcome ! I was just trying to suggest something for the drivers that you already have (Keeping Costs Down).I also like some of the other idea's that have been noted already OG,Rontec's,etc.. But for the size room you have converting the 615's with a 604 CD horn from Bill and putting them in 612 or 620's would work IME.You have to weigh the size of the cab with your available floor space.10' is not very wide with a 10x18 I imagine you will have the speakers down in one end 10' apart firing down the length (18') they are both very close in size floor wise.The 612 is a little smaller so I would go with that.If you don't mind the slightly larger cabinet WRT floor footprint then I would use the 620 at 9 cu ft. It has better bass response and sounds a bit better IMHO. Good Luck with it. This is a Hobby More or Less you shouldn't be losing sleep over it. Best Wishes !!


BTW Rontec's suggestion with the 1 414 and 3 uF cap tweak should be easy and very cheap WRT costs.

Beautiful job Mike. I don't recognize the horns. Is your cabinet volume = to 9844? Your other equipment is way beyond my old Fisher and AR turntable. One thing at a time!

If you are having 10 by 18 rooms then you should buy speaker system of atleast 2000 w power. You can use 5.1 speaker system.

Thanks to everyone for your input. I've come up with a plan. First I'm going to build something like Mikebond's speakers using GPA's mr931-12s with my 806As and Rontec's high band pass suggestion and see how I like them. If I want more, I have permission to move those into my wife's living room for movies (grills required) and then get the 615s converted to '604s' and build something like Billforts 620 design for my room. Should be a lot of fun. I'll post pictures when done. Thanks again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slowbrain

Beautiful job Mike. I don't recognize the horns. Is your cabinet volume = to 9844? Your other equipment is way beyond my old Fisher and AR turntable. One thing at a time!

---

Hi! You are welcome!
The horn is Eminence H295. With this horn 806A has a good fr. responce in the upper range. The cabinets are 43,3"x19,7"x17,7" outside (about 6 cu.ft inside). This is my "small" loudspeakers. I can send you drawings, but I'll need your e-mail. My equipment is mostly home made (PP 300B monoblocks, tube phonostage/preamp).

Thanks very much for your generous offer Mike but I think I've got all I need from your photos and dimensions. I'll probably change it slightly anyway because a little wider and less deep would work better for my application I think. Thanks again.