Thanks to the guys at GPA.
Here's a little video of them.
YouTube - gilliganisle69's Channel
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Thanks to the guys at GPA.
Here's a little video of them.
YouTube - gilliganisle69's Channel
Heres a pic of the new cab's also one of the massive GPA crossovers, they were like lifting Ford Pinto's into the cabinets.
604's in piano black... used to be a pretty blonde in a bikini, but i gotta say, yep these do it for me too
Hah. I'd want both. Though am getting by fine with altec grey and a brunette at present.Quote:
Originally Posted by valhallax
Unable (on my end) to see the vid at the moment, but congrats nonetheless on completion.
Yes, those big coils get heavy.
I had some 500hz XO's using them at one point, they weighed a fair piece.
Glad to hear GPA came through for you--they've got a great track record with me. The cabs look nice--have you tried your newly restored drivers in the old cabs compared to the new ones to see which cabinets they sound better in?
I am so tempted to, I don't think these sound as good as the old cabs and was darn tempted to swap them out just for shits and giggles.......hmmmmmmmmm maybe tonight yet. : ) I actually drew up a new design tonight. I'll post it now so I can get some opinions on what others think.Quote:
Originally Posted by voice of the theater
Please let us know how the restored drivers sound if you swap them out into your original cabinets--you may be pleasantly surprised and decide you don't need to build any more cabinets. I used to own a pair of cabinets (Heathkit AS 101's which were manufactured/stock with Altec Valencia drivers) almost identical to your original cabs (but not "DBR") and they were fantastic sounding. Here's what they looked like (click on images for full size)--do these look familiar to you (other than the grill cloth) ?Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2010/12/14.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2010/12/15.jpg
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2010/12/16.jpg
I take it you didn't sim it. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
GM
Maybe an old question, but do you have any idea how your new cab's are tuned with those ports?
Are they custom done for 604's, or were they pre-existing?
I don't think soQuote:
Originally Posted by GM
I was thinking the same thing. Cradledorf those original cabs are nice "Absolutely Nothing Wrong With Them" you don't need to keep building new ones.I read that post over at LH who cares about his opinion, know why, because it's "Not Yours" if they look and sound good to you that's all that's important. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by analog addict
I actually like the way they (Originals) look Vintage !! :2thumbsup: :cool:
I agree--those are really nice looking vintage cabinets and yours look to be in good shape. People pay big bucks for antiques that often times don't have half the character or craftsmanship that those do. BTW, I just read the post AB mentioned over at LH, and the guy over there is entitled to his opinion but keep in mind the Valencias (which the AS-101 and Flamenco cabinets are a slight variation of--almost identical dimensions and tuning, with a beautiful wood grain style) are probably the most popular speakers/cabinets (housing a 15" speaker) that Altec ever sold. More Valencias (not even counting all the variants/Valencia style speakers/cabinets) sold than Model 19's for example--the Valencias were in production around 15 years until the mid 70's (some of the early ones were called Iconics but they WERE essentially Valencias) and they kept building AS-101's for a few years after that as well. So that basic cabinet shape/dimension/style/tuning was in production in one form or another for at least 20 years (ball park figure). I would hardly say that no one would want those cabinets like the guy over at LH said--that's his opinion and hopefully he'd be the first to admit it's no more valid than anyone else's opinion--it's certainly not a fact. Maybe since there weren't many Valencia style speakers/cabinets with a baffle/tuning to accommodate a duplex speaker -- the demand for that particular cabinet might be lower than a standard Valencia/Flamenco/AS-101, but that has nothing to do with the appearance or the sound of the cabinet--just that it's baffle is made for a duplex instead of a 416 woofer and an 806 driver/811B horn (and I wouldn't be surprised if your newly restored duplexes sound better than many 416/806/811B combos out there). Here's a few examples on ebay today of how popular these Valencia speakers/cabs are and they're always being bought and sold every day of the week on ebay, audiogon, craigslist, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
Here's a pair with a $2450.00 Buy it Now price--steep but I've seen them sell for more especially to the Asian market....
Vintage Altec Voice of the theater Valencia speakers - eBay (item 230564781424 end time Jan-16-11 18:12:07 PST)
This pair has a $1400 Buy It Now
ALTEC VALENCIA - eBay (item 110628625860 end time Jan-02-11 12:29:07 PST)
$1200 B.I.N.
Altec Valencia 846A speakers - eBay (item 170584006385 end time Jan-06-11 18:40:16 PST)
$995 B.I.N.
Vintage Altec Valencia 846u speakers - eBay (item 190479659538 end time Jan-11-11 18:33:07 PST)
I'm not saying that's what your speakers are worth--just giving you an example that it's pretty far fetched to say that no one would want those cabinets--Valencias/Flamencos/AS-101's have GREAT sounding cabinets which is why they're so popular and were being manufactured in one variation or another for 20 years.....
If anything, it wouldn't surprise me if your newly restored drivers in those original cabs sound BETTER than any of the four pairs I just listed....
If they sounded that good before you had the drivers restored, imagine how those cabs will sing now......Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
I toyed with the idea of building risers for my Valencias and my AS 101's (yes, I owned a pair of each) and decided to prop up the fronts of them instead. Some may frown on this idea, but there is also the argument that they may get better bass response being on the floor with the fronts propped up compared to being on a riser 2-3 feet off of the floor--depending on the acoustics of your room of course. My Valencias and AS-101's got GREAT bass response in their original factory cabinets sitting directly on the floor with the fronts propped up to aim the sound up to ear level while they sat on the floor......Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
AS 101's with fronts propped up (click for full size).....
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc.../2010/03/9.jpg
Valencias with fronts propped up....
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2010/03/15.jpg
In the second pic, I had to prop the fronts of the Valencias up quite a bit because they were in my (in home) recording studio and my band stands up when we were using the speakers. In the first pic, I only had to prop up the fronts of the AS-101's a relatively small amount to aim the sound up to ear level for people listening while sitting on the couch. If I still owned those speakers I'd prop their fronts up with something nicer looking than VHS tapes! :doh: BTW, my living room is actually not much bigger than your listening room and I made room for a piano, two AS 101's, TV, couch, love seat, etc. and they sounded phenomenal in that room (and even my wife--who's "picky" about furniture--loved how they looked in that room with the baby grand piano),,,,,,
You get the idea, I can't recommend enough (or maybe I'm recommending too much!?) that you try those drivers in the original cabs and be prepared to be surprised.....
You know I didn't : ) I haven't taken the time to download the program and tinker with it...although I have been gathering my data for the 604's. I was merely going on the Altec cabinet building guide where it talks about infinite baffles and the length they need to be for a 1/4 wavelength difference from the back to the front so I googled how long a 20 hz wave was and then divided it by 4 and determined the length of the channel/horn to be roughly 170 inches long.Quote:
Originally Posted by GM
Thanks Greg.
Yep their Identical to mine, I switched the wires on my HF and the speakers sound better now but the ceiling isn't collapsing in so they have more awesomeness to be brought out in them....I almost started swapping them a few minutes ago but it's already pushing 3 am and I'm on vaca all week. I want my heart to stop beating when I wind these mama's up.Quote:
Originally Posted by voice of the theater
They are home made by an idiot...who shall remain anonymous He had no idea what he was doing and I still don't. so the answer to your question is no they aren't really tuned I just kinda estimated them. : /Quote:
Originally Posted by analog addict
That's actually the reason I fell in love with them was their cool nostalgia look. I think I should give them another chance. I hate to have another set of stray cat houses sitting on my porch which I'm sure is what I'll have if I build them. :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
I kinda like the VHS look. :D And your right. As peter Griffin fondly put it they may be worth a couple of thousand dollars to you, but to me their worthless. You guys have convinced me their going back in their original cabs. I was also thinking about trying the old networks with them too, you know just to see if I hear a difference between them and the GPA crossovers I bought. Thank again buddy. : )Quote:
Originally Posted by voice of the theater
Ok as of 5:30 am they are back in the original cabs, the bass seems slightly deeper but the mids seem a little less powerful than they were in the black cabs. For some reason I can't go any higher than about a 1/4 volume on my Marantz after that they start sounding not so good and don't seem to get any louder. Below that they sound really nice though.....I wonder if I need more power or something newer like a denon. also the treble is cranked all the way up on the marantz to get good clarity from the HF. they were doing the same thing in the black cabs too you couldn't go beyond above 1/4 volume or they just got worse sounding.
What I might suggest you do is put one back in the new cabinet and leave one in the old. Then you can switch back and forth to see what sounds best.Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
As for your amp, it's a pretty well flogged horse, but you might want to consider tubes for your amplification. SS/transistors produce odd numbered harmonics which cuase speakers to sound "harsh", "brittle" etc. Despite having more distortion by the numbers, tubes produce even numbered harmonics, mostly 1st order if I understand correctly, which sound pleasing to the human ear.
Find a friend with a good tube amp, and have them bring it by for a demo session....:2thumbsup:
If they were just serviced and they sound like that then it has to be something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by analog addict
AA has a good suggestion.Now did they sound that way before servicing ?
You just got new crossovers too correct ?
Try the old Crossover's again !
Could be a number of things.Is this a new problem or did they always sound like that ?
..........I can't remember actually I think they did sound this way... I really find it odd that these cabinets with ports that are 5" tall and 17" wide is the proper port size for this enclosure seems way to big. I know I didn't have to turn the treble knob all the way up before so I think the crossovers are the culprit there. I think Analog Addict was right I should have switched one and the listened to them both. Maybe I should hook Optimus prime back up to them, I think it's rated at 90 watts where the Marantz is only 16.... Also I stuck with my wiring the HF backwards which at low volume seems to make the HF stick out better and it sounds clearer but at higher speed it sounds horrible kind of an out of phasey sound. also this dry weather kinda tightened the cabs so much it's really hard to get the backs off, I should splurge a couple of bucks and buy some drawer pulls for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altec Best
From what you described, I think the used Marantz amp you bought is clipping/greatly distorting once you turn it up past 1/4 of the way. I agree with analog addict--unfortunately--"it's a pretty well flogged horse". It's probably repairable but I doubt if it's worth the expense. I think you mentioned a while back that you're kind of new at this "high end audio" hobby--there are a few solid tips I can give you even though I'm NOT the biggest expert here by any stretch of the imagination. First of all, never (almost never?) buy a used/and or vintage amp/receiver unless you know (or know of) someone trustworthy who DEFINITELY has lots of experience and knows what they're doing as far as restoring/repairing high end/vintage amps etc. in case you run into any problems with it. Your local stereo store might have a repair man, but he may not have a clue how to properly restore/repair a high end vintage amp regardless of what the people in that store try to tell you. Many used/and or vintage amps need (sometimes major) work done on them to be restored to their original working condition.... Unfortunately, like a used car, many people who have an old Marantz (for example) that starts to distort, clip, get noisy, etc. decide "well, this amps not working right--it's time to sell this baby while there's still any sound coming out of it at all!". Those Altec 604's are very efficient--at 10 watts continuous they'll peel the wallpaper off your walls. If your amp is clipping and they're not as loud as you'd like to hear them, it's probably clipping at a much lower power output than it's rated at. In that condition, I wouldn't be surprised if you're getting distortion even at lower power outputs (below that 1/4 point you mentioned)--and the overall sound quality you're hearing through your speakers at ANY volume setting is likely nowhere near as good as it should be with a properly working "good" amp/receiver.Quote:
Originally Posted by analog addict
Yes, I think it's time to get an amp that will do those speakers justice. AA gave you some good advice--if you know someone with a good tube amp--have him bring it over and give it a try. If not, there are some great tube amps that people here can recommend to you--but as I said don't buy a used one unless you have a TRUSTED/experienced tech guy who knows how to repair/restore high end vintage amps (in case it has problems like your Marantz). If you buy a new tube amp, make sure it's a good one. Here's a nice one but it's about $7,000 brand new (this one's an integrated amp, you could go with separate pre amp and power amp as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
McIntosh | MA2275 At 75 watts a channel--it will be incredibly loud even when it's not turned anywhere near full volume with those 604's. Being a brand new amp, it should sound WAY better than the old Marantz--you'll probably notice better bass, mids, highs, etc. the second you hook it up.... If that's out of your price range, there's many inexpensive good tube amps (a few hundred dollars) that people here can recommend that will also be plenty loud and upgrade your sound quality dramatically--you may find your speakers are not lacking in midrange,bass, or treble at all once hooked up to a nice amp.
I know you want those babies to be able to play LOUD, I wouldn't buy an amp that's less than 60 watts a channel. Even though you'll probably never be able to be in the same room with them at anywhere near 60 watts a channel, that will give you some headroom when Jack Black blows something up in "Tropic Thunder"! Believe it or not, there are plenty of audiophiles who run speakers like yours with tube amps that only can put out a few watts per channel (less than 10)--and they sound great and are loud even with one watt (continuous) put through them--but you'll want plenty of headroom for home theater -- especially since you really like to crank them up. Of course people can run 200 watt amps etc. with their home stereo/theater, but the Altecs you own are incredibly efficient (like pretty much all of the vintage Altecs) they'll be deafening before you even get to 60 watts a channel and will blow up (be FRIED) at anywhere near 200 watts etc.....Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
OK, so far I've been treading on pretty safe ground here. I guess it's time to stick my neck out a little. Of course you know--in audio, like in life, opinions are all over the map. There are people who swear that CD's are better than vinyl, vinyl better than CD or DVD Audio, tubes are better than transistors, transistors are better than tubes, etc... A guy who's occasionally on this forum, Tom Brennan (who's owned many vintage Altecs over the years including Model 19's), gave me some good advice out of the blue quite a while ago. When I bought my AS 101's, I joined the Lansing Heritage Forum to get some advice on how to replace the old capacitors in the crossovers. He, and Zilch, and others there gave me some great advice/assistance and at that time Tom recommended that I join this Altec hostboard. I did, and got some great advice here on re-capping my AS-101s from people like Old Guy, Bowtie, bfish, etc. I now frequent both boards but I spend more time here as this board is entirely devoted to Altec. Anyways, Tom is of the opinion that tubes are great for great high end speakers like vintage Altecs, but that GOOD solid state is just AS GOOD. OK, here's where I'll stick my neck out. I agree that good solid state is just as good as tube amplification. That's my opinion--and I've owned many high end solid state and tube amps/pre-amps/integrated amps/and even (gulp) solid state receivers through the years. A nice tube amp sounds great, and so does a nice solid state amp. The reason I bring this up is that I know people here recommended tube amps to you quite a while ago, and you bought a solid state Marantz and you keep mentioning that maybe you should buy a Denon. You seemed inclined to go with a solid state amp/receiver--and as I said before, in my opinion that's fine but I'd buy a new one and not another used lemon (unless you have a good tech guy). I recommend that you DON'T buy a Denon--they were decent MANY YEARS AGO but their build quality etc. these days is not very good. Here's where I'll stick my neck WAY out for you--what I'll recommend as far as an inexpensive, kick ass, solid state receiver is this (gulp) new Harman Kardon receiver. The reason I hesitate to go on record recommending Harman Kardon is that there are a lot of people who HATE that company. Harman Kardon bought out JBL (and many say ruined the company!), and many other "atrocities" they have committed (probably all true!) and some even say the new H.K. stuff is not all that good any more (I can't speak for all Harman Kardon products but I can say in the case of this receiver the quality/design/build is great). My brother owns one of these and it sounds amazing--and it has received great reviews as well. Here's the (gulp) link.... Amazon.com: Harman Kardon HK 3390 High Performance 2 x 80W Stereo Receiver: Electronics
My brother replaced his Denon receiver with this HK 3390 and the difference was astonishing. Much more dynamic, clear/clean, open sounding with noticeably better bass but still has nice crisp highs. I couldn't believe how good this thing sounds when I first heard it in his living room. This receiver has a "big brother" which is essentially the same design but with more digital features (which you may or may not want) and a little more power (which you won't need). Amazon.com: Harman Kardon HK 3490 120 Watt X 2 Stereo Receiver with XM Radio-ready Tuner and Dolby Virtual Speaker: Electronics
These links are both for Amazon Vendors--Amazon itself also carries both of these receivers directly (which means free super saver shipping) but they are currently out of stock. I see that today, through the Amazon vendors, the prices are $279 and $406 respectively for the two receivers. If you wait a week or two Amazon usually sells them for around $239 and $329 respectively with free shipping. With Amazon, if you don't like it, send it back and get a full refund even though you've opened the box and cranked it up. But I'm confident you will be happy if you buy one of these--my brother's receiver sounds that good! One of the many rave reviews I read went on about how great this receiver is and said that it's the least "transistor sounding" solid state amp they had tested recently. There are tons of other great reviews of it online. Unbelievable price as well. If you want to see when Amazon has it back in stock just do an Amazon search for Harman Kardon 3390 or Harman Kardon 3490, whereas if you click on the links I provided you they'll just take you back to the Amazon vendors and you won't find out if Amazon itself has it back in stock with free shipping......
More info/specs.....
Harman Kardon - HK 3390
Harman Kardon - HK 3490Harman Kardon - HK 3490
So, if you're inclined to go with solid state (which you seem to be)--that's the best advice/opinion I can give you as far as something that sounds amazing and is also quite a deal. If you want to go with tubes, there are a lot of people here who can recommend some great tube amps as well....
BTW, I agree with you and AB that it's worth trying the old crossovers again to see which crossovers sound better in the original cabs but that of course be would something to do in addition to replacing that old Marantz, not instead of replacing it.
I see you just posted while I was typing my last post. That's going to have to be my last long post for 2010--I need to get off the computer now! Anyways, briefly, you shouldn't have to reverse the polarity to your H.F. drivers--and if it sounds "phasey" with them reversed you'll want to switch them back. Before you can make a definitive judgement call as far as which crossover sounds better, I'd fix your amplification problem. With a clean amp it will be very obvious that either the new or old crossovers sound better, whereas with a malfunctioning amp the worse crossovers might not sound any worse than the better sounding ones if your old amp has a skewed frequency response, high distortion, etc. due to its present condition. If you have a (patient) friend with a great amp, have him bring it over and try swapping crossovers and it should be a no brainer which sound better -- either the originals or the new ones. If you don't have a friend with a great amp, you know your Optimus and Marantz are crap, I'd buy a nice amp (you're going to need one anyways) and once it arrives determine which crossovers sound better. I think you'll still find the original cabs sound way better no matter what crossovers you use. As far as the port size goes, it will be a lot easier (and more accurate) to figure out once you have a properly working amp. If you still feel there's not enough bass then use the old trial and error method. Block part of the port from the inside of the cabinet by "tacking in" a piece of wood and then of course closing up the back of the cab (start with blocking half of the port for example and you'll hear a difference--better or worse) and if it sounds way better--you've succeeded in moving towards a better tuning. Then experiment with blocking 2/3, 1/3, etc. and you'll eventually home in on your ultimate preferred tuning/port size. With the right size ports those original cabs will produce great bass. The ports may already be the ideal size once you have a good amp connected but with a little experimentation you'll learn a lot. Same thing if blocking half of the port sounds way worse--try blocking 1/4 of the port etc. and experiment with port size until you get what you want. Unless you have a lot more knowledge and computer/testing software/equipment than I have (and than I presume you have), the trial and error method is the best way to get it just right. You may spend all day experimenting with different port sizes, but then every day after that you'll be happy you spent the time to get those babies tuned just the way you like them. As GM saidQuote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM
I agree with you, I think this Marantz which was probably hauled out of a goodwill cleaned up and stuffed on Ebay was probably abused as crap all it's life and has seen better days. I will look into the Harmon Kardon I always heard they were exceptional. The bass rumbles pretty good on these but I'm not losing bricks out of the foundation but anything above that is mediocre at best. I also agree that chasing problems when the receiver isn't working right is just a waste of time. High distortion and clipping is exactly how I would describe what I'm hearing. I have 2 pieces of testing equipment my left ear and my right. :)
Thanks again Vott. :2thumbsup:
Ok Question, when I look at the back of that Harman Kardon there are video in and outs....why do you run video through it???
I know that the receiver does nothing to alter the video signal. As far as answering your question, I'm not positive because I've never run video through a receiver like this (and I know my brother doesn't run video through his Harman Kardon receiver) but I think some people like to run their video signal through a receiver like this one for switching purposes--just so that with one remote they can not only adjust the volume and audio input etc., but they can also switch their video signal they're sending to their TV from DVD to VHS or Cable Box/Satellite Box etc. all with one receiver remote......Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
I've been where you are before (as have many people here on this board)-- a "new" used pair of classic vintage (audiophile) speakers that need some effort to get them to sound as incredible as they should. Even though it's work, the payoff is amazing when you're done and you can sit back and enjoy a system that knocks your socks off day after day......
Ok they are already back into the black Cabs. I switched one and then listened. I'm sad to report that my Black cabs blow the Heathkits out of the water. seriously they were like night and day the Heathkits were rumbly but had nothing else the Black ones sound tight and punchy and seem to be louder at the same volume??? I still haven't done the adjustable port on them but I think that I should wait to get the new receiver before trying to tune them. Also I did swap the HF wires back to where they belong although I'm not convinced that had much to do with the sound The sound coming from the Heathkits was a loose bass sound and the mids were really non existent.
OK, then it was well worth swapping them out so now you know for sure which cabs sound better. You must have done a nice job building those black cabs for them to sound that much better than the Heathkits. Not to mention the tuning on those Heathkits (port size and possibly even the "shelving"/DBR inside) is probably way off if they sound that bad. Mine looked identical to yours except that they had a smaller port and had no "shelving" inside and of course their baffle was cut for the 416-8A woofer and the 811B horn (with 806-8A HF driver). I thought that maybe the bigger port on yours had something to do with the DBR tuning (which I'd never even heard of before reading one of the posts in your original thread) but apparently not..... Just out of curiosity--did you try re-reversing the wires to the high frequency drivers (wiring them the way they originally were, instead of your reverse wiring experiment) while they were in the Heathkit cabs or did you wait to correct the wiring until they were back in the black cabs? I'm asking because of course much of your midrange comes from those high frequency drivers and I have no idea what wiring them backwards while leaving the bass connection wired properly does to the sound of one of those duplexes--it may have no effect or a substantial effect--I'm sure there are people here who would know--I've never owned a duplex speaker although I know they're a classic Altec speaker that are very highly regarded by the (vintage) Altec community. Regardless--it still sounds like the tuning is way off in the Heathkits for them to sound that bad--just wondering how they were wired while in those cabs.... Anyways, hopefully when you have a new amp and have made a crossover selection between the two pair of crossovers that you own (and possibly a port modification in the black cabs if adjustment in them is still needed at that point), you'll have one killer system that won't hog all the space in your listening room.....Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
I don't know why I was thinking the midrange comes from the woofer......I think I was having a brain fart. But to further elaborate, I did not switch the wires in the Heathkits and listen simply because I didn't want to go through trying to get the backs off again...they're super tight. and personally I don't think the port on them is tuned I think it's the gaping hole where the 511 should have went had they been set up with the right speakers.Quote:
Originally Posted by voice of the theater
P.S. the new $220 HK receiver ships tomorrow !!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the tip. ; )
It does, the mids end around 1300 Hz and the XO is nominally 1500-1600 Hz........Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
Use bar soap to lubricate the edges, same as for all wooden slide drawers.
Dunno, if they're early enough cabs they would typically be tuned up around 65-75 Hz (big vent) since LP records didn't go below ~75 Hz and 45s below ~100-125 Hz plus TT 'rumble' was quite high, so you didn't want a low tuning. The Salon 604 cabs had a big rectangular vent of around 117"^2 and the early Iconics around 69"^2.
Vintage speakers are a sign of their times same as cars, etc. and Altec and a few other brands were SOTA, but compared to today, very lo-fi in some ways due to the technological limits of the day. Thankfully, they over engineered them to a great extent, so highly adaptable to different tunings, response shaping EQ.
GM
I was still thinking of the crossover in my AS 101's. They had the stock 800 hz crossover (same as Valencias, Flamencos, etc. all have). In those speakers, a good chunk of your midrange is coming from the horn/hi frequency driver. In fact, even in my Model 19's, the crossover point is 1200 hz, and even at that higher crossover point if you disconnect the horn, you lose a lot of the midrange (especially upper midrange). Most of the 604 Duplex Speakers use a (stock) 1500 or 1600 hz crossover (often an N1500A or N1600A) which are probably what the originals are that came with your Duplexes. If this is your new crossover that you got from GPA (I'm guessing maybe this one?) http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads/N604-8A.pdf then your new crossover frequency is 1500 hz and in that case I would agree (of course!) with GM that not much of the midrange is coming out of your hf driver..... If you get bored waiting for your new receiver to arrive and you want to see for yourself how much of the mids are coming out of that driver just disconnect the h.f. driver and you'll probably notice that some of the upper mids disappear but much of your midrange will most likely be largely unaffected..... But I'm still not sure what kind of phase problems/effect if any (cancellation etc?) would be caused by reversing the polarity on the hf driver while leaving the polarity correct for the woofer on a duplex speaker and how much impact if any that would have on your midrange......Quote:
Originally Posted by GM
Your welcome. I just clicked on the link I provided you and yes, Amazon has it back in stock for $219.99 plus free shipping--unbelievable! The nice thing about this receiver is that not only does it look great on paper (for example, at full power output of 160 watts=80x2, only .07% THD), but I've heard this thing and it sounds amazingly clean, clear, and uncolored as I mentioned before with great low end but still nice crisp highs. I've been watching to see when Amazon got them back in stock because I'm probably going to buy one for myself. I've been wanting to set up a nice system in my garage/workshop (it will be the 4th stereo system that I have in my house--um, maybe I'm addicted to Altecs!) and after I heard my brother's receiver I decided I wasn't going to hunt for another vintage amp this time for this system--I was going to buy one just like his. Once I have one in my house, I'm going to compare it to some of the amps I'm currently using on my other three systems -- using the same speakers/components/rooms that each system currently uses, and just swap out the receiver for the current amp I'm using in each system-- I think it will give them a run for their money (I can be kind of (!) obsessive about doing A/B comparisons whenever I buy new audio gear). If it sounds even better than what I'm using now for amplification on any of my other three systems (I'm almost hoping it doesn't! :doh: ), then maybe I've been paying way too much for amplification!!Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
You sir have an addiction....I hope it isn't contagious....something tells me it is. :rotfl:Quote:
Originally Posted by voice of the theater
Yeah, the 3490 is THE deal of the two: Harman Audio items - Get great deals on Harman Kardon, Infinity items on eBay Stores!Quote:
Originally Posted by voice of the theater
GM
I checked that guy out, I thought he seemed to good to be true. if you go to his track record you'll notice he has many negative comments I think he's one of those people who portray themselves as dealers but are not in anyway connected to HK. Just sayin, It's the first place I went when I decided to buy. The official HK site actually list Amazon as an authorized dealer. I ordered yesterday (tuesday) FedEx say's they'll have it here today (Thursday) I went with the 3390.Quote:
Originally Posted by GM
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...s=negative_180
Dunno, it was just a recommended place to buy over on AVS........ Anyway, I emailed HK since it's not listed on the corporate site, so we'll see.
GM
Update: No response, so still no clue.............
Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
Heh, you have no earthly idea, do you?......
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbmc...2010/09/44.jpg
Wow....I didn't realize it could get that bad. I wish you well my friend. :2thumbsup:
Ok first impressions, scary.....there wasn't hardly any bass even with the bass turned all the way up I think it is stripped away and fed through the subwoofer output so basically it has turned my 604's into midranges and horns which kinda sounded weird at first since I'm so used to them shaking the timbers. I do have a pukey 5 inch sub that I have hooked up to it and the house shakes good now but not as crazy as it did with the Marantz. I'll have to go through a few movies and check it out more but at this point I think it has potential to be really killer with a nice huge sub.
Analog Addict has one of the best collections around. Check out the photos on the first two pages of this thread, Cradeldorf:Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
http://www.hostboard.com/forums/alte...ave-lives.html
Analog Addict, didn't you have a short video that panned around the mancave posted somewhere? Or am I thinking of someone else?
My addiction, unfortunately, isn't even in the same league. I've always been in the habit of selling a pair of speakers each time I buy a pair--I've been buying speakers as upgrades rather than building a large collection. So, even though I've bought four pair of vintage Altecs in the last two years, I've also sold four pair. I still own three pair of Vintage Altec speakers today (same number of Altecs I owned two years ago), except that now I own three "better" pair than the three pair I owned two years ago (when I joined up here). I still have three stereo systems in the house, same number of systems I had two years ago, and I guess as a symptom of addiction, I still have my rationalization as to why I NEED three stereo/ALTEC systems in the house.
1) Living Room Stereo---got to have a nice Altec system in the living room for vinyl, CD's, DVD's, digital cable, etc. that my wife and I (and if we have company over) can enjoy.
2) Mancave Stereo (finished basement "rec. room"). This is a must if I want to stay married. If my wife is watching something on digital cable or has friends over etc. and I want to crank up some music, I need to have an Altec system in my finished basement "rec room" so I can make some noise -- especially if the guys stop over and we want to let the Altecs sing for a few hours without blasting my wife (and her friends if they're over) out of the house.
3) In Home Recording Studio (finished basement--the BIG room) --- I've been gigging/recording albums in various bands for a long time. I've GOT to have an in home recording studio which of course has to include a great Altec system. It would cost me a fortune to record at someone else's recording studio and pay by the hour. Not to mention, looking at a clock and wondering how high of a bill you're running up at someone else's studio is not very creatively inspiring--quite the opposite. Not the only reason that having a recording studio in your house is conducive to creativity (not having to rush because you're paying by the hour). Also, it's nice, when inspiration strikes, to just walk down a flight of stairs and start recording rather than booking studio time in advance and hoping you "feel" like recording when that day rolls around......
I guess if there was an Altecs Anonymous club ("AA" club), I'd be a candidate for it although I'd never join because this is one addiction I don't want to quit. I'm not even going to try to convince myself that I'm not an addict on the feeble grounds that whenever I buy a pair of Vintage Altecs I also sell a pair. That would be like someone saying they just started drinking a bottle of vodka a day, but they're not an addict because the same day they took up vodka they quit beer!
OK, something is definitely wrong. The Harman Kardon doesn't "strip away" any of the bass to feed to the subwoofer output. Here are three possible causes/solutions off the top of my head--do NOT have a subwoofer connected when attempting any of these solutions so you can really hear what's coming out of your duplexes without any help from subwoofers--there should be very noticeable bass and your duplexes of course shouldn't sound like midrange speakers if they're in good cabinets with a good amp. Once you solve the problem, then of course feel free to experiment with subwoofers if you still feel the need......Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
If you're getting little or no bass out of the speaker A or speaker B connections on your receiver it's most likely:
1) Your wiring is out of phase on one of the speakers -- simple test--reverse the polarity where your speaker wire connects to the receiver on JUST ONE of your speaker connections and see if the bass is back. DO NOT reverse your speaker wire connection for both the left and right channels or you haven't solved anything--for this solution/test reverse ONLY the left OR right channel speaker connections at the receiver from how you have them connected now--NOT BOTH!
2) Much less likely but still very possible if it's not #1. It could be your cabinets and or their tuning. If your Marantz was really messed up--it might have been sending a really boomy, muddy signal to your speakers which might explain why the AS 101 cabs sounded really boomy/muddy (not much midrange) --that might be what your Marantz REALLY sounded like--and it may have been so boomy that it made your new cabs which may have a poor/negligable low frequency response, appear to have an acceptable amount of bass. So if solution # 1 isn't the culprit, and you want to troubleshoot to see if #2 is the problem, put one of the speakers into the Heathkit cabs and see if now there's plenty of bass, treble, and mids with the new receiver.
3) You've received a defective receiver. Unlikely but possible even with the best of manufacturers. If this is the case, you'll be glad you bought from Amazon--they'll give you a full refund or ship you another brand new factory sealed unit at no charge! They are GREAT that way.....
My money is on #1. If not #1, then maybe #2 or #3. Of course there are other possible causes/solutions to this problem but I'd start with these 3. A disturbing #4 and #5 just occurred to me but hopefully we'll never even have to go there--I still think it's most likely #1.....
You forgot scenario 6 I had the volume to -21 and thought I was almost to the top LOL apparently it goes way past -0. I've gotten it to -10 and it's ripping the drywall off the walls I breifly pushed it to -4 but couldn't handle the sound This Thing Friggin Rips!!!!!!!Extremely happy would describe how I feel. I think I was just used to hearing it one way but now that I have heard them in a whole new perspective it really is amazing how sweet the combo is I do have the Bass all the way up but it sounds perfect at that setting not too much bass and not too little. Thanks for steering me in this direction Buddy because my 604's and making me proud. :thankU:Quote:
Originally Posted by voice of the theater
Naturally I shot a little vid of it in action. although my computer speakers does it no justice.
YouTube - Altec 604's W Harmon Kardon Receiver
Nice!! Psyched to hear it. :2thumbsup: Of course I can't tell from the video but from your post it sounds like you're finally getting great quality sound out of your system with plenty of bass and plenty of power with no clipping/distortion. You mentioned it sounds perfect--do you mean you have plenty of bass without a subwoofer? That would be nice, finally! Just out of curiosity, have you had a chance yet to compare the old and new crossovers to see which sound better? Once you do that, it might still be worth experimenting with the tuning of the new cabs--you may find you don't have to turn the bass all the way up on the receiver if you change the tuning of the cabs. But the important thing is that it sounds great now so there's no hurry to do anything but enjoy...... Worst case scenario if you experiment with switching crossovers and then cabinet tuning after you've selected which crossovers you prefer and there's no improvement it doesn't matter because you've already got it sounding "perfect"......Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf