Oversigning.....

This is ridiculous. I know Mike Slive is great at suspending basketball coaches or finding loopholes in SEC bylaws. But what is keeping him from acting on this. It isn?t right. You should not be able to treat kids like this. When you recruit a kid and he commits to you, call me crazy but I think you at least owe that kid 4 years without pressuring the kid to leave or take a medical hardship. What Alabama, LSU, and Ole Miss are doing this year in recruiting is completely wrong and shouldn?t be allowed. Bama has 12 spots they have 20 verbal?s and two greyshirts plus they aren?t done? LSU is 9 over already. Ole Miss is 10 over?.


If you haven't yet you should check out this website...
Oversigning.com

I'm sure you're aware that those schollys are only for a year at a time, and coaches can "cut" these guys whenever he finds someone he thinks is better. That said, Slive won't touch bammer or LSU as long as they are big bowl bound. He might hammer Ole Miss or Vandy for oversigning, but he wouldn't touch his moneymakers. He is the most crooked commish in college sports.

let me ask you this; if im on an academic scholarship and my grades suffer, will the school not get rid of my ass?
if a player cant cut it at a big time school, let him transfer out and go somewhere he will get to play.

not to mention that Alabama (i dunno about LSU and OM) has never asked a kid to take a medical. Its always been the players decision.

schools do so much for these kids, to act as if they are doing them a grave injustice is BS.

not to mention ANY SCHOOL CAN DO IT

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Originally Posted by Biggin

let me ask you this; if im on an academic scholarship and my grades suffer, will the school not get rid of my ass?
if a player cant cut it at a big time school, let him transfer out and go somewhere he will get to play.

not to mention that Alabama (i dunno about LSU and OM) has never asked a kid to take a medical. Its always been the players decision.

schools do so much for these kids, to act as if they are doing them a grave injustice is BS.

not to mention ANY SCHOOL CAN DO IT

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The fact is they have pressured kids to take these. Here is an article saying as much. They have had 14 in Saban's four years. This article says 12 but there have been two since it was written. I think the next closest is Tressel at Ohio ST with 4 in 10 years. You know what he is doing and it isn't right. It isn't fair to the kids or their families.

The Wiz of Odds: Alabama's Use of Medical Hardships Is Questioned

I don't think you can compare kids not making their grades to what Saban and Miles are clearly doing and in case you don't know these kids are not in the NFL yet. They shouldn't be treated as such. Even more Coaches shouldn't be allowed to manipulate the system to get rid of players they themselves evaluated and gave a scholarship to. That is a mistake the coach should have to live with. The kids or their families shouldn't have to pay the price.

The Big 10 has already acted on this. The Big 12 isn't far behind. But I don't guess Mr. Slive wants to mess with ESPN's darling. This isn't right. It isn't right for Dooley it isn't right for Saban. It needs to be addressed. Because if it isn't you are going to see more and more coaches start doing this.

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Originally Posted by Biggin

let me ask you this; if im on an academic scholarship and my grades suffer, will the school not get rid of my ass?
if a player cant cut it at a big time school, let him transfer out and go somewhere he will get to play.

not to mention that Alabama (i dunno about LSU and OM) has never asked a kid to take a medical. Its always been the players decision.

schools do so much for these kids, to act as if they are doing them a grave injustice is BS.

not to mention ANY SCHOOL CAN DO IT

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Let me ask you this. If a coach over evaluates a kid and the kid has a 3.0 gpa and has never been in trouble is it right for the kid to get his scholarship pulled?

Do you know how the Bama med schollys work?

The kids gets to stay in school, FOR FREE, and still gets all the perks a football player receives.

and to answer your question, yes. I do believe that if a kid cannot hold up his end of the bargin (on-field production) he should not be rewarded. How can you support a kid getting a free education over someone more deserving? Whats stopping the kid from transferring down? Alabama always lets the kids transfer out to different schools.
A scholarship is given to for football; If a kid cannot contribue, why should his education be free? Mines not, yours wasnt, why should a kid get four free years of schooling if he gives nothing back?

Let me ask you this;
a school recruits a baseball player to come and play. turns out the kid cant hit the broad side of a barn and cant throw from 2nd base to 1st. Should a baseball coach be forced to keep him for four years, instead of the ONE which is guaranteed by the scholarship?

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Originally Posted by Biggin

Do you know how the Bama med schollys work?

The kids gets to stay in school, FOR FREE, and still gets all the perks a football player receives.

and to answer your question, yes. I do believe that if a kid cannot hold up his end of the bargin (on-field production) he should not be rewarded. How can you support a kid getting a free education over someone more deserving? Whats stopping the kid from transferring down? Alabama always lets the kids transfer out to different schools.
A scholarship is given to for football; If a kid cannot contribue, why should his education be free? Mines not, yours wasnt, why should a kid get four free years of schooling if he gives nothing back?

Let me ask you this;
a school recruits a baseball player to come and play. turns out the kid cant hit the broad side of a barn and cant throw from 2nd base to 1st. Should a baseball coach be forced to keep him for four years, instead of the ONE which is guaranteed by the scholarship?

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You realize their are athletics other than NCAA Division I right? Not every kid that gets a scholarship can go somewhere else. The coach is at no fault for his/her over evaluation? The kid which in many cases can't afford college without support is kicked to the curb despite having good grades and being a good kid? This is what I hate about NCAA Athletics. People that are just fans could care less about anything other than that what goes in the right hand and left hand column. It's sickening to me.

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Originally Posted by pvfan

You realize their are athletics other than NCAA Division I right? Not every kid that gets a scholarship can go somewhere else. The coach is at no fault for his/her over evaluation? The kid which in many cases can't afford college without support is kicked to the curb despite having good grades and being a good kid? This is what I hate about NCAA Athletics. People that are just fans could care less about anything other than that what goes in the right hand and left hand column. It's sickening to me.

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But thats not what we are talking about. We arent talking about UVa-Wise or Cumberlands, but Alabama and Ole Miss and LSU.

You think a kid who got a scholarship to LSU couldnt get a scholly to McNeese State?

But its okay how athletes use the system tho, right? Like college bball players leaving after one year, football guys leaving after junior season, kids quitting, getting in to trouble, abusing all the perks, taking money from agents and boosters, off the field problems, etc...

And the coach gets punished by losing a scholarship that year. Why should he be punished four years for overestimating a kid? Let's start making transfer kids sit out four years too then. They made a mistake in choosing a school, lets make them wait 4 years before going somewhere else.

At a big time school, I dont see the problem of cutting a kid.

Answer my question;
if a kid gets a football scholarship yet simply cannot cut it on the field, why should he get free board/education/meals/etc... for four years for contributing nothing??
I didnt get four free years of school for being a mediocre athlete, those great kids at Wise who play four years dont get full scholarships, why should a kid who was decent in high school get to get his education for free?

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Originally Posted by Biggin

But its okay how athletes use the system tho, right? Like college bball players leaving after one year, football guys leaving after junior season, kids quitting, getting in to trouble, abusing all the perks, taking money from agents and boosters, off the field problems, etc...

And the coach gets punished by losing a scholarship that year. Why should he be punished four years for overestimating a kid? Let's start making transfer kids sit out four years too then. They made a mistake in choosing a school, lets make them wait 4 years before going somewhere else.

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Do you realize how stupid this sounds? I mean really? A coach gets punished because a football or basketball player left early? How does a coach get punished? Makes no sense.... Most that leave early are going to the draft correct? I mean they clearly had to help the coach while they where there didn't they? They have produced enough to think they can get drafted but since they decide to leave it is punishing the coach......

The coaches have 85 scholarships. If someone gets in trouble and gets kicked off they get to fill that spot. That is what they get paid millions to do right? Manage the program? How much do these kids get that generate all this money?

If a coach wants to cut a kid and make no mistake that is what is happening. He should have the balls to say what he is doing. But he doesn't. He lies his a$$ off to get him in the door then turns around and tells the kid to look elsewhere if things don't work out. If a kid isn't getting in trouble and doing his classwork. Their is no excuse for a coach pressuring a kid to leave other than for his own benifit. That isn't right. You can spin it anyway you want.....

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Originally Posted by VOL61

Do you realize how stupid this sounds? I mean really? A coach gets punished because a football or basketball player left early? How does a coach get punished? Makes no sense.... Most that leave early are going to the draft correct? I mean they clearly had to help the coach while they where there didn't they? They have produced enough to think they can get drafted but since they decide to leave it is punishing the coach......

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Clueless...

If they are leaving early, no doubt they are a great player. Meaning that the coach loses a year with an elite player. DUH! Come on, use that brain of yours.

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The coaches have 85 scholarships. If someone gets in trouble and gets kicked off they get to fill that spot. That is what they get paid millions to do right? Manage the program? How much do these kids get that generate all this money?

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HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. Free education, board, food, plus all the other perks. Again, use your brain.

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If a coach wants to cut a kid and make no mistake that is what is happening. He should have the balls to say what he is doing. But he doesn't. He lies his a$$ off to get him in the door then turns around and tells the kid to look elsewhere if things don't work out. If a kid isn't getting in trouble and doing his classwork. Their is no excuse for a coach pressuring a kid to leave other than for his own benifit. That isn't right. You can spin it anyway you want.....

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Once again, prove me wrong. Why should a team be forced to give someone who cannot contribute a free education and such? There are tons of other kids who CAN contribute and do their schoolwork, why should these kids who cant cut it get more than a one year try out?

Answer my question;
You didnt get to go to school at UT by being a mediocre football player and not contributing anything, why should anyone else? College education is EXPENSIVE nowadays, especially at bigger schools. Why should these kids get all these advantage if they cant do what they are SUPPOSED to do, play football well?

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Originally Posted by Biggin

Clueless...

If they are leaving early, no doubt they are a great player. Meaning that the coach loses a year with an elite player. DUH! Come on, use that brain of yours.

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Yea, Clueless.....

I guess the three years Julio, Ingram, Dareus played didn't benefit Saban or Alabama. They really punished him by leaving. Poor guy.... How much in bonuses did he get during their time there? How is he going to make it?

Oh wait they got room and board and an education.... What is wrong with them for leaving punishing poor Nick.... Hell they even got to go on a fishing trip. What do they want....

Yea, I am clueless..... Your clueless....

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Originally Posted by VOL61

Yea, Clueless.....

I guess the three years Julio, Ingram, Dareus played didn't benefit Saban or Alabama. They really punished him by leaving. Poor guy.... How much in bonuses did he get during their time there? How is he going to make it?

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By your rationale, those kids should stay four years, since thats what a scholarship entails, according to you.

So now you are arguing that Julio, Ingram and Dareus will not HURT Alabama's team next year? WOW.
Losing three first round picks will not hurt Bama's team, no way.
They leave early, they hurt Bama's chances of winning a lotta games next year. Its obvious.

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Oh wait they got room and board and an education.... What is wrong with them for leaving punishing poor Nick.... Hell they even got to go on a fishing trip. What do they want....

Yea, I am clueless..... Your clueless....

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Yes, they got all that. Im not saying its terrible or even the wrong decision (for Julio maybe, he might be 1st WR taken next year). But the facts are these kids get hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to PLAY FOOTBALL. If they cant cut it on the field, why in the world should they get a free ride?

Ima ask you again;
why should a kid who cant live up to his end of the bargain (football performance) get four free years of school, instead of the one? Did you get college for free? The school gets punished for a year by giving a scholly to a kid who cant play. Why should they get punished four years?

If you cant give me a good rebuttal to my last paragraph, then I will not continue because it proves you are clueless.

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Originally Posted by Biggin

By your rationale, those kids should stay four years, since thats what a scholarship entails, according to you.

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Wrong.... I think the choices that are made should be in the best interest of the kid.

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So now you are arguing that Julio, Ingram and Dareus will not HURT Alabama's team next year? WOW.
Losing three first round picks will not hurt Bama's team, no way.
They leave early, they hurt Bama's chances of winning a lotta games next year. Its obvious.

Yes, they got all that. Im not saying its terrible or even the wrong decision (for Julio maybe, he might be 1st WR taken next year). But the facts are these kids get hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to PLAY FOOTBALL. If they cant cut it on the field, why in the world should they get a free ride?

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Wrong.... They got room and board and an education. Take that to the bank and cash it. I don't think it equals the millions they made for the school and the millions they made for their coach. Alabama got 50x their investment in any of those kids. To tell any of these kids to stay wouldn't be in their best interest... again.

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Ima ask you again;
why should a kid who cant live up to his end of the bargain (football performance) get four free years of school, instead of the one? Did you get college for free? The school gets punished for a year by giving a scholly to a kid who cant play. Why should they get punished four years?

If you cant give me a good rebuttal to my last paragraph, then I will not continue because it proves you are clueless.

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I know when a kid commits to a program he expects that program to at least do the same. I know if it where my son I would. Again, This isn't the NFL....

Let me ask you a question. If your son was being pressured to leave to take a hardship that was bullcrap how would you feel? All of this after the guy sitting in your living room lying his a$$ off telling you how much support and guidance would be available to him.

If this is what we are teaching student athletes it is the wrong message. These kids aren't cattle. It isn't what college athletics should be about. If a kid is struggling I thought it was the coaches job to motivate him. If he can't maybe he should have done a little better on his evaluation when he recruited the guy. If the guy is disruptive or just isn't working. That is another matter.

But to just knowingly take guys you think can play knowing that if it doesn't work out you can just dump him 2 years down the line isn't right. And that is what is happening.

And as far as college teaching the kids about life. I don't know about you. But I teach my kids that loyalty means something. I teach them that if you commit to something you are **** well going to finish it. I know that isn't how life is always but having character or integrity isn't always easy. Forgive me for thinking a college football coach should have a little....

I am done....

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Originally Posted by VOL61

Wrong.... I think the choices that are made should be in the best interest of the kid.

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? What does that have to do with anything?

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Wrong.... They got room and board and an education. Take that to the bank and cash it. I don't think it equals the millions they made for the school and the millions they made for their coach. Alabama got 50x their investment in any of those kids. To tell any of these kids to stay wouldn't be in their best interest... again.

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Did I say they should def. stay? NO!. I said Julio might, and he might get drafted in the top 5 last year, but I never said its a horrible decision for any to leave.
So you are trying to tell me that a player like Marcell Dareus, individually, brought Alabama 250k x 50? Thats a joke. Wrong again. Tuition costs at Alabama are roughly 35-50k a year for out of state kids. 35k x 4=140,000. Thats the basic minimum. Once you add in all the stuff a football player receives, from clothes and equipment, meals, all that, A player like Marcell Dareus got roughly 500k from the Univeristy of Alabama. And you think a player like Dareus, himself, brought Alabama more than five hundred thousand dollars? Err, no.

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I know when a kid commits to a program he expects that program to at least do the same. I know if it where my son I would. Again, This isn't the NFL....

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The program DOES, it gives them a year to prove they are worth a scholarship.

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Let me ask you a question. If your son was being pressured to leave to take a hardship that was bullcrap how would you feel? All of this after the guy sitting in your living room lying his a$$ off telling you how much support and guidance would be available to him.

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SHOW ME where any Alabama player has taken a medical against his will, where a kid took one that was not 100% HIS decision.

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If this is what we are teaching student athletes it is the wrong message. These kids aren't cattle. It isn't what college athletics should be about. If a kid is struggling I thought it was the coaches job to motivate him. If he can't maybe he should have done a little better on his evaluation when he recruited the guy. If the guy is disruptive or just isn't working. That is another matter.

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So a kid who was a good HS football player should get four free years of school even if he cant live up to his end of the bargain, on field production?
You know how many kids dont get to go to college AT ALL because they cant afford it, their circumstances keep them from going to college? So we should let a kid slide, get a free education, contribute nothing to the football team, and be rewarded for it? How is that fair? Its not.

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But to just knowingly take guys you think can play knowing that if it doesn't work out you can just dump him 2 years down the line isn't right. And that is what is happening.

And as far as college teaching the kids about life. I don't know about you. But I teach my kids that loyalty means something. I teach them that if you commit to something you are **** well going to finish it. I know that isn't how life is always but having character or integrity isn't always easy. Forgive me for thinking a college football coach should have a little....

I am done....

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Blah blah blah, its only a problem because Alabama does it and UT does not. You act like college football is so clean and pure and this oversigning in the devil. With all the evil that goes on in CFB and the SEC, you wanna talk about integrity? L.O.L.

This isnt high school. This is big time football. How is it a character flaw to cut a kid who isnt living up to his end of the bargain?

Why was this kid given a scholarship to LSU? To play football and contribute to the team. If he cant do that, why should he keep his scholarship?
A scholarship IS NOT A FOUR YEAR DEAL. You know that, I know that, every single player knows that. They have to be renewed every single year.
A coach CANNOT guarantee a kid will be there for four years, thats a fact.

Answer this, which you have danced around this whole time;

Why should these kids get four free years of school if they cant live up to their end of the bargain? There are hundreds and hundreds of kids out there who would kill for a one year shot at a big time college, why should a kid who cannot do it be given a free ride?
The kid can transfer, go somewhere else, etc. Its not as if their career stops if LSU cuts them. They can always go somewhere else and play. So explain that.
Whats wrong with a school expecting a kid to live up to his end of the bargain?

If im on an academic scholarship and my grades fall to all D's, does a school let me stay for four years because they gave me a scholarship? HELL no.
Why should football be any different?

Im done, because theres nothing you can possibly say to refute my argument.

Kids are told they are guaranteed one year, with the option to renew. It is VERY rare, even in the cicumstances were are talking about here, for a kid to get a scholarship cut unless they screw up. By NCAA rules they cannot be cut because of athletic performance, look it up. Football gets 85 scholarships per year, if you figure 14 medicals over 4 years that equates to roughly 4% of those athletes being put on a medical. That is higher than other D1 schools, true, but not really that great a number in the overall scheme of things. And, like someone else pointed out, they still get their education paid for.

IF we were talking about cutting the scholarship altogether so they couldn't attend school, that would be a different story, but that rarely happens, and when it does it is almost always deserved. Most scholarships that are changed over 4 years are INCREASED, not decreased. Go look at the NCAA's webpage, they keep stats on all this stuff.

Personally, I would see nothing wrong with having some type of performance clause in the scholarship contract, especially for the junior and senior season at D1 schools. And I would also see nothing wrong with the school requiring players who leave early to go to the pros being required to repay their scholarships. Take it out of their signing bonuses.

To add on that good post;
Nick Saban: Grayshirts not treated unfairly | TideSports.com


Alabama NEVER springs it on a kid that they will be greyshirted. The ones that may greyshirt are always 100% aware they may be asked to greyshirt.

I would say Tidesports would agree with what he is doing.....

Here is another take..... from a little more credible source.....

NCAA Football news, scores, rankings - College Football - SI.com

Unfortunately this is one of the gray area's that the NCAA has allowed to blossom into a problem. I never heard of this until about three years ago, when the SEC instituted the "Houston Nut rule", but upon further study found out that this has been going on forever. Alabama is said to be King of this behavior. I was told by family in Alabama, that Bear Bryant would sign 70, 80 kids per year and put them on track scholarships, tennis scholarships, and even swimming scholarships. The NCAA, and SEC, need to take the gray area and make it black and white.

Except thats false H, not one bit true.

FIVE SEC teams have signed more players in the last five years than Alabama

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ata/index.html


and what was so reprehensible about that article posted? He did nothing to refute anything Saban said except provide his own judgement calls. How the hell does he know what type of injuries happen at Alabama? Or what Saban tells recruits?
The standard of play in the SEC, even in practice, is much higher than anywhere else. Yall UT fans know that. So why is it so ludicrous to believe that more kids get hurt because its at a higher level? He uses Ohio State, but Bama just beat the brakes off a Big 10 co-champion and could have beaten them by a hundred. So obviously the SEC plays different ball than the Big 10.

Bama doesn't have any more injuries than anyone else. You know why these kids are being put on these medical's..... to free up space. They have 6 more than the nearest SEC school.

And you know as well as I Saban isn't going in these recruits living rooms telling them he is going to look at the scholarship every year and decide if he wants to renew it or not. Same goes for Nutt and Miles and others..... these guys could sell ice to eskimos....

I think it is clear to everyone what is happening at Ole Miss, LSU, and Bama. Along with some other schools. I think 8 schools oversigned this year across the country and 6 of those where from the SEC. Now some people don't have a problem with that and that is up to them. But I will have a problem if Dooley does it and he may do it. But I think the NCAA should act on it just like the Big 10 already has and the Big 12 is in the process of doing.

JMO....