Mangini - What time?

Brad,

What time is this thing?

I'll call The Pad in a little
while.

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Hi Peter,

Glad I checked this board. It's at noon until 1:30. Last I heard it was going to be held at Durty Nellie's a few blocks West from the Pad on Smith street. I may stop by the Pad first, around 11:45 or so. See you there!

Brad

Brad,

I couldn't make the time. [img]frown.gif[/img]

Tell me all you can.

What about coming to Lang?

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That's too bad you couldn't make it Peter....I had a blast at Mangini's clinic here....I'm sure the master class would've been enjoyable as well....oh well, next time...

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 21, 2004 11:08 PM: Message edited by: quitou ]</font>

Brad,

Can you tell me about it?

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Thanks, Brad.

Berklee has gotten worse, I see.
If you choose to go there, better
bring something to the table.

As for Mike's approach, I thought
it would be as you described. I
think of him as a mental exercise
more then anything else. In other
words, it's his conception of
what he does, before doing it.

Mangini is an alien.

It's a kind of visualization pro-
cess. Billy encourages it. I wish
I could have been there.

I have to make unusual arrangements
for the Virgil class, which I will
NOT miss.

Thanks.

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Hi Peter,

BTW, I can't do Thomas Lang, I'm teaching until late.

It turned out that another guy missed so the only people in our class (Mike limits them to 5 people) were me, one of my teenage students, and an older beginner. It worked out to be more or less a $40 semi-private lesson for me. Mangini was enthusiastic, and very specific about his beliefs. He covered many of the same points he has in the private lessons I've taken with him. He talked a lot about grip, hand and foot position and a lot about speed. His hand speed is absolutely ridiculous, and he wrists everything. He spoke about learning, how to think and observe yourself and your motions and a bit more.

He confided a bit about the difficulty of teaching the very many lame students he gets at Berkely. Apparently, if you've got $30,000 for a year, they'll let anyone in, whether they can read a note or hold the sticks with any semblance of a correct grip. He spends most of his time getting the students capable of passing their basic proficiency tests. Quite a waste of his talents and the parents money.

BTW, If he can sync his hands together he'll be well over 1200 singles in a minute. You can count on him breaking TW's DB record sometime.

I wish he'd given more specific exercises to do, but I'll have to pick the brains of some of the people who took later masterclasses with him.

I'm looking forward to the Virgil master class. It should be very informative. Lots of our teachers will be there, sponging it all up.

Brad

Conceptual is the right word. Mike has very definite ideas about visualization, concentration, observation. We all have different brains and ways of learning. I don't agree with all of his ideas but they've obviously worked for him.

I know from Virgil's Masterclass website forum, the lessons he had on Learn2drum while it was around, chatting with him, and clinic handouts, that he is much more about patterns you can work on.

Brad,

What cams did he use and
where were his feet on the
footboard, if you can recall?

What are some of the ideas
you agreed with and others
that you disagreed with?

Thanks.

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I took one of Virgil's masterclasses last time he did them in Chicago (2001 I think.......day after Planet X gig at Cutting Hall). I've still got the handouts...good info, but nothing too earth-shaking. Also took a private lesson that same day.

I've posted previously that the lesson was a dissapointment, and the masterclass was also a bit of a let-down. I don't regret doing either, but they just weren't the chock-full-of-information sessions I was expecting them to be.

Virgil is a good clinician IMO, and I've gotten good info from his clinics. However he didn't really go into any new topics or cover "old" ones in more depth in the lesson/masterclass.

A good teacher IMO is good at identifying students' weaknesses, providing constructive criticism and making suggestions for how to improve, which is what I expect to get out of lessons and masterclasses.

I think the issue I had with the Virgil sessions is that these are not his strengths. I think Virgil does do a good job of explaining what he does, how he does it, and inspiring his fans to practice harder, longer, more often, and more effectively, which is why he's a good clinician, IMO.

Conversely, Mangini seems to be very good at the "feedback" aspect of masterclasses and lessons, which is probably why he's so successful as a teacher. I haven't been able to take a lesson with him yet, but I hope to get the chance in the near future.

One thing I dig about Simon is that he does not like to give lessons...he feels he's not good enough at giving feedback and that it would be a disservice to the student...he feels that teaching should be reserved for drummers who are also good teachers. As much as many of us admire Simon and would jump at the chance to get a lesson with him, I respect his honesty and humility.

I'm expecting Virgil's online lessons to be better. I'm going to join as soon as they post the next round of new material.

Sorry for the rant....too much coffee today!!

Teachers are a special breed. It's
tough to get a creative drummer and
teacher in the same package. The
problem with the creative person,
in general, is that their thought
process is radically different.

People have a hard time understand-
ing them. It's true in life too. I
see it all the time.

I believe that a student really has
to do the work in order to under-
stand what the teacher is trying to
say, whether it's communicated well
or not and this is the challenge
and an expensive one at that.

I'm going to give it a go. I enjoy
the lessons Virgil gives on the site
and will always be there.

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Peter,

I tend to believe that the initial steps in learning a pattern require great attention to what you're doing, how it sounds, if the timing and dynamics are correct, and then after many repetitions you stop thinking about each and every note individually and perceive the whole chunk of notes as a whole. It's a Gestalt sort of thing. Start with the nitty gritty, and after awhile you stop thinking about all that and just play it with an awareness of whether it's even, musical, in time, sounding the way you want it to. Mangini feels you should focus on every detail, all the time. My brain does not work that way. There were other examples of differences - that's just one. Most were perception/philisophical differences that can be attributed to differences in the way people learn/think/process, etc.

Mike set up my pedals, adjusted the spring tension etc. They all had the red cams, were a medium or medium-light tension. When he played his feet were just above the pedal board and sometimes he brought his heels to the inside of the pedals - playing off them with his heels dropping lower.

I can't stress this enough - he's ridiculously fast - the fastest drummer I've ever seen - including Rabb, Marco, Virgil, Danny Gottleib, Buddy R, etc. He's got as great a command of polyrhythms and interdependence as anyone alive. To see a guy play over ten notes a second with one hand for short bursts is bizaare, to say the least. To hear easily play above 18-19 notes a second with both hands for extended periods is just plain freaky.

For those of you who've never seen him - do it at least once.

Brad