WWII Vet an illegal citizen...

even drawing SS, how many want to have him deported? Not many I would assume.

Ninety-five-year-old Leeland Davidson discovered recently that he's not considered a U.S. citizen, despite living nearly 100 years in the country and serving in the U.S. Navy during WWII.

Davidson, from Centralia, Washington, told KOMO News that he discovered he wasn't a U.S. citizen when he was turned down for an enhanced driver's license he needed for a trip to Canada to visit relatives.

"We always figured because he was born to U.S. parents he's automatically a U.S. citizen," said Davidson's daughter, Rose Schoolcraft.

Davidson was born in British Columbia in 1916, but his parents didn't register the birth with the U.S. government to ensure they knew he was a citizen. He checked up on his citizenship before joining the Navy and was told by an inspector at the U.S. Department of Labor Immigration and Naturalization Service he had nothing to worry about. Now he worries that he won't be able to prove his citizenship, because his parents were born in Iowa before local governments started keeping records of birth certificates in 1880. "I want it squared away before I pass away," he says.

Schoolcraft says they tried to dissuade him from pursuing the matter. Employees at the local passport office scared them, telling her father "If he pursued it, (he could) possibly be deported or [be] at risk of losing Social Security."

"We keep telling him, leave it alone, leave it alone, and he won't, like a dog with a bone," Schoolcraft told the Centralia Chronicle. But Davidson says: "I want to get it done before I die." He also still wants to visit his friends and family in Canada. Sen Patty Murray's office is helping him with his application.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theloo...-a-u-s-citizen

I think this is a totaly different situation than what you are hinting at.

Not with the new legislation being passed around the states now, that even if you're born here, you're still not a citizen.

NOW, nowhere in that article did it say he was an illegal citizen, just that he wasn't a U.S. citizen. Many veterans, who are not U.S. citizens become citizens after serving in the military honorably and/or are awarded certain medals of valor, like the MOH, Bronze star, or Silver Star.

All this article really says is that he has not been declared a U.S. born citizen.

What do you think it is talking about? He's not a US citizen, as the article clearly says, he's here illegally. I probably should have worded it, WWII Vet not US citizen but technically it is illegal. They have said that he could be deported. Again, this was interesting considering one particular group trying to strip rights away even though they were born here...even though he wasn't, no one's wanting him pushed out the door.

That's for already legal immigrants to earn citizenship, which doesn't apply to that many, that's what the whole Dream Act was based on(which was voted down), that stated by going through a program it set up, you could earn citizenship by serving in the military for so many years - 2 maybe.

Somehow, I don't get what you are saying, are you saying that you want him out of the country, or what? I think his daughter(?) said he could possibly be deported but nowhere in the article itself did it say he could be. His problem lies in the fact that he can't prove that his parents were U.S. citizens, but the way I see it, the government can't prove they weren't. In cases of "legal" citizens who are born here by parents who are illegal/undocumented is a totally different thing. The government can prove they(parents) are not legal citizens.

This man served honorably, therefore granting him his naturalized citizen status is the least the government can do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by centennialdawg

Somehow, I don't get what you are saying, are you saying that you want him out of the country, or what?

---

Of course I don't want him out, I'm using the argument many are using against illegals. I would imagine they wouldn't want him deported, I don't either, but they are so against that Act that stated if you served your country/got an education, you could be a citizen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by centennialdawg

I think his daughter(?) said he could possibly be deported but nowhere in the article itself did it say he could be.

---

"Schoolcraft says they tried to dissuade him from pursuing the matter. Employees at the local passport office scared them, telling her father "If he pursued it, (he could) possibly be deported or [be] at risk of losing Social Security."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by centennialdawg

His problem lies in the fact that he can't prove that his parents were U.S. citizens, but the way I see it, the government can't prove they weren't.

---

But he wasn't born here, if he was, it wouldn't matter where he parents were born.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by centennialdawg

In cases of "legal" citizens who are born here by parents who are illegal/undocumented is a totally different thing. The government can prove they(parents) are not legal citizens.

---

I don't get what you're talking about, I see how you used quotations about "legal", as if there's some question as to if they are or not. You're no more of a citizen then those people. Sad news, the law/constitution says if you were born here, you're a citizen...how on earth is that even an issue and what basis do you or they have to say otherwise? What difference does it make where their parents were born if the person in question WAS born here? The gov. recognizes that, it's one group/party that's arguing otherwise because of personal issues with the immigrants.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by centennialdawg

This man served honorably, therefore granting him his naturalized citizen status is the least the government can do.

---

Thank you, case in point. Anyone who contributes to the the country or even their community willing to bust their ass/risk their life, absolutely deserves it...my point is he deserves it, many others do too though, but some with personal issues with them can't use some common sense like it's so easy to apply in this situation.

So, going by what you say, my grandson, who was born in Germany to U.S. citizens is an illegal? Think again, dude. He is a citizen of the U.S. PERIOD.

No, that's not going by what I'm saying. Military base or parents were living on one? That counts as him being born as a US citizen, we found that out when we all learned John McCain was born in Panama...even if he wasn't, as long as his parents registered his birth with the US. The article wasn't that long, so I don't know how you missed so much. He was born in BC, a providence of Canada, his parents didn't register the birth with the US at the time...meaning he's not really a citizen since he wasn't born here and wasn't registered as a citizen because his US parents failed to do so.

There ya go! That's what I was trying to get you to say. His parents were U.S. citizens. They just forgot to file the paperwork. Easy mistake. Thankfully, my daughter and her husband did file the paperwork. That wasn't so hard was it, r13?

What in the world are you talking about? Who ever denied his parents weren't US citizens? You're the one that was stuck on that, wondering what you were talking about when you said he couldn't prove his parents were citizens, no one is disputing that. He just said it's going to be incredibly difficult to claim it was just a mishap because there weren't any records at the time. The issue is he wasn't born here and there isn't any paperwork saying he was, he could possibly prove it was just an accident because his parent's were citizens, but he can't do that. I think the whole thread just went over your head big time. lmao No one has said it wasn't a mistake, but it's not an easy fix and technically he's not a citizen.

Nah, didn't go over my head. I got you to say what I wanted you to say. I know what his argument is, I just happen to agree with him. The fact he was in the service is of no consequence. The problem lies with the beuracracy of our government. Could you prove, in the absence of proper paperwork, that you are a citizen? Bet you would give it everything you have to prove you were, just like he is.

It did actually and okay? lmao You got me to say something I never denied and agreed with, oh wow, how did you manage to weasel that out of me? And alright, who's saying they don't agree with him? Again, way over your head, everyone wants him to stay and know...but the system is screwed up with miles of red tape, then we have people wanting to actually kick people out that were BORN HERE. And no I probably couldn't, but again, are you this lost? I'm not taking their side, I completely understand his case and think it shouldn't be an issue at all...though this seems to escape you. Just another example of why people should just be happy they lucked up and were born here, instead of having to either attempt to go through a broke system or jump a fence, then get looked at as trash because they did what anyone would do.

There's a huge difference between someone like this guy who actually just had a paperwork error, and an illegal Mexican jumping the border long enough to get their kid born on US soil.

Here we go again.......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shooter

There's a huge difference between someone like this guy who actually just had a paperwork error, and an illegal Mexican jumping the border long enough to get their kid born on US soil.

---

Only in right-wing blog land has that happened/does happen on any regular or significant basis, kind of ridiculous to think someone would even just come over to do that, but then move right back? lmao

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R13

Only in right-wing blog land has that happened/does happen on any regular or significant basis, kind of ridiculous to think someone would even just come over to do that, but then move right back? lmao

---

Actually, even in left-wing land we recognize that this happens. It happens A LOT and regularly, and has been going on for decades. The US/Mexico border hospital maternity wards are full of this - they cant turn these women away when in active labor, illegal or not.

And no they dont allcome over, birth a kid, then move back (although some do). The idea is to gain US residency through having a citizen child (not to mention welfare benefits for the US citizen kid). Some parents do this simply to better their kids future, even if it doesnt benefit the parents directly.

Here's an article from yesterday alone, featuring another type of citizenship births
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar...enter-20110325

I know it happens, but not on any significant level or anything that the right claims, that's been debunked various times. They have claimed it happens with millions of children every year, when in fact on 300k are born to illegals and it's only a fraction of those doing it. Why? Because having a kid here doesn't give you citizenship, the child can't even file for visa's until they are 21 years old, only then can they apply and that's a long shot to even get it. There's certainly a lot of children being born to illegal parents, the birthrate is high, but doing it to "anchor" themselves here and reap benefits? No, that's not that common at all. Big difference in claiming that and than illegals who have lived here and just had kids here like anyone else.

Yeah it happens, I know it does, but nothing on the level it's claimed and most of the other nonsense things, the whole "anchor baby" bull was thrown out awhile ago when it was first being passed around. A lot of misconceptions with it, also that "welfare" for the child doesn't happen that often either...their illegal parents have to file for it, that hardly happens because of the fear of raising red-flags risking deportation - that goes for the SS and everything else they claim so many illegals take advantage of, when most are too afraid to even go to an ER in fear of risking being caught, another fun-fact learned with the HC bill rumors.

There are so many things wrong in those two paragraphs I dont even know where to start...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R13

I know it happens, but not on any significant level or anything that the right claims, that's been debunked various times. They have claimed it happens with millions of children every year, when in fact on 300k are born to illegals and it's only a fraction of those doing it. Why? Because having a kid here doesn't give you citizenship, the child can't even file for visa's until they are 21 years old, only then can they apply and that's a long shot to even get it. There's certainly a lot of children being born to illegal parents, the birthrate is high, but doing it to "anchor" themselves here and reap benefits? No, that's not that common at all. Big difference in claiming that and than illegals who have lived here and just had kids here like anyone else.

Yeah it happens, I know it does, but nothing on the level it's claimed and most of the other nonsense things, the whole "anchor baby" bull was thrown out awhile ago when it was first being passed around. A lot of misconceptions with it, also that "welfare" for the child doesn't happen that often either...their illegal parents have to file for it, that hardly happens because of the fear of raising red-flags risking deportation - that goes for the SS and everything else they claim so many illegals take advantage of, when most are too afraid to even go to an ER in fear of risking being caught, another fun-fact learned with the HC bill rumors.

---

Lol, well just try to manage somehow. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R13

Lol, well just try to manage somehow. :rolleyes:

---

I just dont feel the burn to argue with a brick wall. You try to debunk people because of right-wing associations, and when left winger tries to reason with you, you wont have that either.

You could have just said that instead of saying what I said was full of errors or whatever, I can link a lot of that and probably will when I find the bookmarks I had when that issue was so big to the right, so that's why I found it funny when I know that wasn't riddled full of errors. It's not a right/left thing when debating to me, either one saying the same thing and I believe it's wrong, I'm going to say so. Your link earlier wasn't even about this issue, we were generally talking about illegal immigrants from places like Mexico, those were wealthy foreigners from many countries doing that. A different issue, but it's definitely an issue and no question as to what their motives are with that particular group.

[quote=imported_elp6n;1859362]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R13

Lol, well just try to manage somehow. :rolleyes:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imported_elp6n

I just dont feel the burn to argue with a brick wall. You try to debunk people because of right-wing associations, and when left winger tries to reason with you, you wont have that either.

---

Someday, this kid will get a reality check when he gets out in the real world and finds out he isn't right all the time.

I've never seen anyone so blinded by party lines AND in love with himself in my life.

I was hoping this thread wouldn't become too political...but it has. Moving it over to the proper board.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R13

Only in right-wing blog land has that happened/does happen on any regular or significant basis, kind of ridiculous to think someone would even just come over to do that, but then move right back? lmao

---

you ever been to mullican flooring, happens all the time. happened just recently as a matter of fact. the girl is going to New York to pick up her family and go back, her sperm donor is staying here though, she doesnt like him, he doesnt like her, they are "married" but have different last names. both hard workers, I dont have a problem with that, but why come up here just to have a kid?

We would be better off to just take over Mexico and create a few more states and draw taxes from them. lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shooter

We would be better off to just take over Mexico and create a few more states and draw taxes from them. lol

---

If we did that, we would have to legalize all drugs because drugs are their cash crop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by centennialdawg

If we did that, we would have to legalize all drugs because drugs are their cash crop.

---

wow i cant believe you actually just said that........ liberal liberal racist racist bigot bigot liberal some more liberal a little more, liberal, mexican mexican i love mexicans christianity whoremonger white white brown is better what can brown do for you liberal liberal.........................and some more, panel of experts panel of experts panel of experts link link link link link link link, im right you are wrong you are always wrong, no drugs in mexico, government conspiracy forget that the info we recieved was bad BUSH'S FAULT DAMN IT, obama cant fix stupid so quit trying......... liberal liberal atheists agnostic just hate christians.

there ya go, now no more needs to be said on this thread.

Yep, I said it, everyone knows drugs is Mexico's main export. All the major drug cartels are sending their drugs through Mexio into the states. I don't really care if the mexicans,latinos, or whatever come across the border, the jobs they do are jobs that most americans won't do. They are people and they gotta eat too.

Now, back to the topic at hand, which is the 95 yr old man and his citizenship. He deserves to get his citiezenship not only because of his service to our country, but also his parents were citizens of the U.S. It is just a shame that he can't prove they were actually born here.

BTW, I am not a liberal, nor a conservative. I would say that I am more on the middle of the line when it comes to politics. You, cuz, have developed quite a problem.

Besides, you apparently didn't get the sarcasm in that post.

Same old bullshit, gets old, which is why I'll be limiting myself on the forum from now on to probably just my threads mainly and maybe just limiting it further. No substance, just that tired line "can't talk to you, you think you know everything" when you can't disprove anything I said or even back up what you say..lol. For the 100th time probably, I don't think I know everything, I don't at all and I'll never be close to.. But I read/research before I make posts the majority of the time in threads like this, so I know I'm right, you all twist that as to some me being cocky issue - when it's really me know what I know by looking it up beforehand and not posting claims unless I have. Some of you won't grasp it though, it'll go right over your head like most things and you'll continue to post bull/myths/misconceptions you've heard over your life and blindly accepted it as fact...so come to your own conclusions and think for yourself, then come back and talk. Call it cocky all you want, you guys just bitch and moan about me, but can't take it when I'm right - and am right because I check my facts. Here goes....

"Pew did estimate that of the 4.3 million babies born here in 2008, 340,000 had at least one parent who was an illegal immigrant. It also found that "nearly half of unauthorized-immigrant households are couples with children.".....

....But how many "come here to have babies"? Not many. Jeffrey Passel, who co-authored the report, told me that "85 to 88 percent of the mothers have been in the U.S. for at least a year," and "a majority have been here at least three years."

And more from this piece..

Why are all these undocumented foreigners producing offspring on U.S. soil, if not because of birthright citizenship? Some obvious explanations: Because they live here, and because they tend to be of childbearing age, since older folks are less likely to trek through the desert for the privilege of harvesting watermelons.

But the chief reason is that having kids is what human beings do, wherever they are and whatever their immigration status. The odd thing would be if these newcomers weren't reproducing.

http://www.economypolitics.com/2010/...f-problem.html
___________________________


It's important to note that having an "anchor baby" won't do much to help a Mexican mom become a U.S. citizen. Because citizen children cannot sponsor their parents for citizenship until they turn 21 -- and because if the parents were ever illegal, they would have to return home for 10 years before applying to come in -- having a baby to secure citizenship for its parents is an extremely long-term, and uncertain, process. ....

...All the data suggests that people come here to work -- especially Mexicans, and especially illegal Mexicans," said Suro. "If people came here because they were looking for work, you would expect to see the flow fluctuate with employment opportunities -- and that’s what the data shows. If people came here to have babies, the flows would be pretty constant, and they are not." ...

...There's something else you don't see, Suro said. If having a baby was a significant driving factor in illegal immigration, you would expect to see a higher percentage of women of child-bearing age in the U.S. illegally compared to men of the same age. In fact, just the opposite is the case. Numbers from the Pew Hispanic Center show that in four separate age ranges between 20 and 40, undocumented men significantly outnumber undocumented women.

.....When they were asked about their motivations for coming to the U.S., "no one ever mentioned having kids in the U.S." Massey said. "I've been surveying Mexican immigrants to the U.S. for 30 years as part of the Mexican Migration Project. We don't ask people their reasons for migrating because most people cannot really articulate the reasons very well -- you get simple answers like, 'I came for the money,' but that doesn't tell you much because people can want money for all kinds of reasons. But we do ask about their migratory behavior, which we then link to social and economic conditions on both sides of the border. What our work shows is that migrants come in response to labor demand in the U.S. and are motivated by economic problems at home."..





Yeah, my two paragraphs were so full of errors :rollseye: I've always asked that if you're going to spout off that I'm wrong and full of shit know it all - then prove me wrong. But it's always crickets and the same tired lines I mentioned in the first paragraph.




This will back up my next link a little, all of these basically say the same thing, just making sure you all get the point.

Further, as PolitiFact points out, because of immigration law, a child born in the U.S. to undocumented immigrants does not really “anchor” his family here because that child can’t sponsor his parents for citizenship until age 21, and the parents would have had to return home for 10 years before their application would be considered. In rare cases, these undocumented parents may seek relief from deportation, but they must have been in the U.S. at least 10 years, and still, there are only 4000 slots for such undocumented parents annually.

http://redbrownandblue.com/index.php...ally-a-problem

___________________________


There, backed up everything I said from the beginning. That yes it happens, but not on some massive level like the right like to claim by any means. It also explains some about the link she posted, which is a completely different issue and wasn't even what we were talking about. So again, there, enjoy. I know I'll probably have to comeback and underline somethings because facts seem to go over some of your all's head often.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by centennialdawg

Yep, I said it, everyone knows drugs is Mexico's main export. All the major drug cartels are sending their drugs through Mexio into the states. I don't really care if the mexicans,latinos, or whatever come across the border, the jobs they do are jobs that most americans won't do. They are people and they gotta eat too.

Now, back to the topic at hand, which is the 95 yr old man and his citizenship. He deserves to get his citiezenship not only because of his service to our country, but also his parents were citizens of the U.S. It is just a shame that he can't prove they were actually born here.

BTW, I am not a liberal, nor a conservative. I would say that I am more on the middle of the line when it comes to politics. You, cuz, have developed quite a problem.

Besides, you apparently didn't get the sarcasm in that post.

---

ummmmm apparently you didnt get the fact that i was joking either? i figured i would go ahead and throw out every word that will be mentioned in this thread since it got so far off topic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R13

Same old bullshit, gets old, which is why I'll be limiting myself on the forum from now on to probably just my threads mainly and maybe just limiting it further. No substance, just that tired line "can't talk to you, you think you know everything" when you can't disprove anything I said or even back up what you say..lol. For the 100th time probably, I don't think I know everything, I don't at all and I'll never be close to.. But I read/research before I make posts the majority of the time in threads like this, so I know I'm right, you all twist that as to some me being cocky issue - when it's really me know what I know by looking it up beforehand and not posting claims unless I have. Some of you won't grasp it though, it'll go right over your head like most things and you'll continue to post bull/myths/misconceptions you've heard over your life and blindly accepted it as fact...so come to your own conclusions and think for yourself, then come back and talk. Call it cocky all you want, you guys just bitch and moan about me, but can't take it when I'm right - and am right because I check my facts. Here goes....

---

And you wonder why we bitch and moan about you.

I just don't care anymore, same story over and over again, bring nothing to the table with the subject at hand and just babble on and on...so I'll continue to post my arguments, you all can continue to whine without posting yours.

Two things:

1) R13--maybe not everyone is as passionate as you are on these subjects and/or don't have the time to spend looking up links just to prove you wrong. Instead of assuming people aren't smart enough to discuss the subject on it's own merits with their own ideas instead of a link's claim, maybe you should do more discussing and learning about the other person's opinion and formulating your own instead of parrotting whatever links you can find on the subject. It's great to be a researcher--which seems like your strong point, but independent thought doesn't seem like it's your strong point...maybe you should work on that.

Remember--just because someone doesn't have 10 links to back up what they're saying doesn't mean their opinion isn't valid and substantial based solely off of their own experiences, which is what you assume and profess everytime a subject is discussed. Posting several links that sources someone smarter than you or your fellow poster doesn't mean either of you are 100% right.

2) Everyone else--I've seen a bunch of claims on several threads about some counters to what R13 posts...mostly w/o backup. Dislike the guy all you want--but R13 does his homework. Instead of complaining, maybe do more research and have supporting documentation for your arguments. That would make discussions more substantive instead of opinion-driven, and maybe we'd all learn something.

In a nutshell--R13's trying too hard like this is a life or death political debate and he HAS to win it, and the rest of you are just having a passing conversation and get pissed when someone goes into it seriously.

Maybe R13 can learn something from everyone else here, and vice-versa. IF that happens (not that I have faith that it will), maybe we can have some more constructive and civil discussions in this particular part of the forum.

CC dude Ive seen threads where he has been proven wrong time and time agiain. With facts, links etc. He still goes on like he is right and the only person that has brains on the boards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R13

Same old bullshit, gets old, which is why I'll be limiting myself on the forum from now on to probably just my threads mainly and maybe just limiting it further.

---

Ive got my fingers crossed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikeJones

CC dude Ive seen threads where he has been proven wrong time and time agiain. With facts, links etc. He still goes on like he is right and the only person that has brains on the boards.

---

Go ahead and post those threads then, curious to see them.



I don't take this as serious as you all think, it's not like most of what's posted on here crosses my mind when I'm not on here. But my biggest pet-peeve is when someone says I am wrong and then doesn't tell me why I am wrong or anything to back it up...or just do it for the hell of it, when I've read up on it and know what the facts are. Anytime someone does that and takes the time to chime in saying I'm wrong, then I expect them to tell me why, it's just a cop-out to me when they don't and it happens 90% of the time with the "there's no arguing with you, you know it all". If I'm so blatantly wrong, then it should be easy to prove it, yet that never happens.

Most of what's posted isn't some matter of opinion that's left up to interpretation, it's not like someone is saying "spicy food upsets my stomach" and I'm posting links saying "nooooo, it's something else", these are things that are either one way or the other with little gray area...this last issue discussed wasn't an opinion issue, it doesn't matter if people are using strictly opinion as facts, if it's wrong it's wrong. My opinions are not "parroting" what some link says, I just base my opinions on as much facts/truth as I can, because I think the number one problem with this country and hell even the world are people basing an entire viewpoint on what they've always heard or misinformed generalizations about things...then they bring that to the polling place and it fucks us all. Another pet peeve, people who base their entire world view on highschool rumor level rhetoric that they soak up as facts because it sounds nice or what they heard at the dinner table growing up and just accepted it as truth...in any area, I think that shows a real lack of substance - which is yet another pet peeve when someone is uninteresting, generic and can't think for themselves. Not saying that's everyone on here or really directed towards anyone, just see it too much in the world.

I know I seem to get fired up in these threads, but really everything is left at the computer and I know it's a forum on the damn internet. Still, when you have worked with campaigns and hear so many people who are so clueless about everything and think that these people have so much control with their vote...it makes you sick to your stomach and you can't say what you want to either. But what you learn is that misinformation and misconceptions about issues like immigration or ANYTHING can effect a lot of people - hurt a lot of people, so you want to correct it. That's why I get annoyed because it's pretty common in several posters, then when they say I'm the one wrong, I get even more annoyed. It's not a cocky issue about being wrong, I've been wrong and will be wrong about a lot of things in life, but it looks pretty lame to me when you can't tell me what's wrong with what I said but wrong a paragraph/took the time to say I was especially when I know I was actually right because I've read about it months ago and just rechecked it twice before I posted.

All I'm saying is ease up a bit and listen more. You bring up an article, ask a question on it. You get 3-4 responses that are counter to your thought on the question/subject, and them bam-bam-bam-bam, you're on them like a lion on raw meat with a bunch of links and "I'm right, you're flat wrong--I've researched this to death"...when all they have is a reactive opinion on the face of it and you've already prepped for it like it's the State of the Union. That's more than a little messed up, and unfair to other posters--and your reaction to their base opinion is a turnoff for anyone to waste the time to find facts that support their opinion/argument b/c they know you WILL NOT listen...because you haven't yet, and that's from post #1 to post #9,812--trust me, I've seen 90+% of your posts.

You keep talking about folks not proving you wrong...well, when have you ever honestly listened to someone else's opinion, seen facts from the other side, and seen the other POV? Find me those links, and I'll get off your case...

And one more thing so you know I'm not just being a prick--I 100% agree with your assertion that people use their knee-jerk reactions more often than actually being well-read and studied up on subjects that affect us all. One of my favorite folks on any network news broadcast is Rachel Maddow b/c she's all about making sure her facts are checked, double-checked, and triple-checked. Even if you don't agree with something she says idealogically, you can't refute the facts she uses. I understand that's part of your motivation for being so well-prepared coming into any thread that you start and/or most of the hot button topics out there. Not everyone is as dedicated to that as you are, and to expect as much is short-sided, even ignorant, on your part.

Listen up and listen good to this tidbit of wisdom--people, collectively, are dumb. Some individuals are smart, but a lot of the political agendas and opinions are based off of those of the masses...which is a collection of people, and is thusly dumb more often than it is intelligent. You force-feeding your researched facts down their throats on here will not make them any less dumb. You're fighting a good yet futile fight. That's a pessimistic, but realistic lesson that you need to grasp onto sooner than later. You'll be less frustrated with your fellow man as a result.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CoeburnCane

You're fighting a good yet futile fight. That's a pessimistic, but realistic lesson that you need to grasp onto sooner than later. You'll be less frustrated with your fellow man as a result.

---

i wish i could thank just that one part........... very well said and this is what i have tried to get through on several occasions, just because someone doesnt agree with you, it DOES NOT make them stupid or uneducated.

and FWIW R13 the only time i ever thought you were really WRONG on something was with the dream act discussion we had. you said there were no funds set aside for them (pell grant or other) and you were wrong on that, they actually had MORE money allocated to them than what pell grants were offering to students with less funds. besides that, i really cant say that ive ever seen something yous aid that was totally wrong, just WAYYYYY biased. and you argue over stupid shit. but this is like my 5th post in 3 months so what do i know, i dont really like this place anymore anyway

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R13

Go ahead and post those threads then, curious to see them.

---

Yeh right. I can barley stand reading your post's in current threads. Im not diggin through your BS

It's not so much that anybody thinks you are wrong. My beef is that you come across as if you're always right and that everyone else here is stupid for disagreeing.