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Would Jesus accept evolution?
Jesus once famously said, ?I am the Truth.?
Christianity at its best embodies this provocative idea and has long been committed to preserving, expanding and sharing truth. Most of the great universities of the world were founded by Christians committed to the truth?in all its forms?and to training new generations to carry it forward.
When science began in the 17th century, Christians eagerly applied the new knowledge to alleviate suffering and improve living conditions.
But when it comes to the truth of evolution, many Christians feel compelled to look the other way. They hold on to a particular interpretation of an ancient story in Genesis that they have fashioned into a modern account of origins - a story that began as an oral tradition for a wandering tribe of Jews thousands of years ago.
This is the view on display in a $27 million dollar Creation Museum in Kentucky. It inspired the Institute for Creation Research, which purports to offer scientific support for creationism.
And it?s hardly a fringe view. A 2010 Gallup poll indicated that 4 in 10 Americans think that ?God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so.? (http://www.gallup.com/poll/145286/fo...eationism.aspx)
While Genesis contains wonderful insights into the relationship between God and the creation, it simply does not contain scientific ideas about the origin of the universe, the age of the earth or the development of life.
For more than two centuries, careful scientific research, much of it done by Christians, has demonstrated clearly that the earth is billions years old, not mere thousands, as many creationists argue. We now know that the human race began millions of years ago in Africa - not thousands of years ago in the Middle East, as the story in Genesis suggests.
And all life forms are related to each other though evolution. These are important truths that science has discovered through careful research. They are not ?opinions? that can be set aside if you don?t like them.
Anyone who values truth must take these ideas seriously, for they have been established as true beyond any reasonable doubt.
There is much evidence for evolution. The most compelling comes from the study of genes, especially now that the Human Genome Project has been completed and the genomes of many other species being constantly mapped.
In particular, humans share an unfortunate ?broken gene? with many other primates, including chimpanzees, orangutans, and macaques. This gene, which works fine in most mammals, enables the production of Vitamin C. Species with broken versions of the gene can?t make Vitamin C and must get it from foods like oranges and lemons.
Thousands of hapless sailors died painful deaths scurvy during the age of exploration because their ?Vitamin C? gene was broken.
How can different species have identical broken genes? The only reasonable explanation is that they inherited it from a common ancestor.
Not surprisingly, evolution since the time of Darwin has claimed that humans, orangutans, chimpanzees, and macaques evolved recently from a common ancestor. The new evidence from genetics corroborates this.
Such evidence proves common ancestry with a level of certainty comparable to the evidence that the earth goes around the sun.
This is but one of many, many evidences that support the truth of evolution - that make it a ?sacred fact? that Christians must embrace in the name of truth. And they should embrace this truth with enthusiasm, for this is the world that God created.
Christians must come to welcome - rather than fear - the ideas of evolution. Truths about Nature are sacred, for they speak of our Creator. Such truths constitute ?God?s second book? for Christians to read alongside the Bible.
In the 17th century, Galileo used the metaphor of the ?two books? to help Christians of his generation understand the sacred truth that the earth moves about the sun. ?The Bible,? he liked to say, ?tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens ago.?
To understand how the heavens go we must read the book of Nature, not the Bible.
The Book of nature reveals the truth that God created the world through gradual processes over billions of years, rather than over the course of six days, as many creationists believe.
Evolution does not contradict the Bible unless you force an unreasonable interpretation on that ancient book.
To suppose, as the so-called young earth creationists do, that God dictated modern scientific ideas to ancient and uncomprehending scribes is to distort the biblical message beyond recognition. Modern science was not in the worldview of the biblical authors and it is not in the Bible.
Science is not a sinister enterprise aimed at destroying faith. It?s an honest exploration of the wonderful world that God created.
We are often asked to think about what Jesus would do, if he lived among us today. Who would Jesus vote for? What car would he drive?
To these questions we should add ?What would Jesus believe about origins??
And the answer? Jesus would believe evolution, of course. He cares for the Truth.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/0...ld-you/?hpt=C2
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
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Originally Posted by
R13
Evolution does not contradict the Bible unless you force an unreasonable interpretation on that ancient book.
I've told you this before. Both can exist at the same time.
The Bible gives us a history from the time of the Garden of Eden, NOT a complete detailed history of the earth. The old testament is basically the story of one man's family.
Im not trying to agree or disagree with you here, simply stating that as a Christian, I've never believed that Adam and Eve were the first people on earth or that the earth began then. The Bible, never once says this.
Im not sure if you believe all Christians are young earth believers, but this is not the case.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
Lots of people believe that something catastrophic happened between the 1st and 2nd verses of the Book of Genesis and choose to believe that is when the dinosaurs roamed the earth. Afterall, The Bible states in those two versese, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Verse 2, "And the earth was void and without form". Now something there happened.
The Bible also says that a day is but a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is but a day.
Those verses, to me anyway, lends creedence to the theory of evolution. But the BIG thing is in finding that last link in connecting modern man to the pre-historic beings that have been found. In the story of the creation it says plainly that God made man in his own image, but, who are we to say what that image was, or is for that matter. Nobody has ever seen God and lived to tell about it, except for one man, and he only saw Him for an instant and it was His back. That was Moses and he never saw his face.
Lots of Christians do believe in the theories of evolution, but they also know what God teaches in the Bible, and that is to live by faith. This faith is what separates the believers from the non-believers. We all are guilty of doubting the wonders and surprises of The Lord, we all fail daily in that respect. But it is our faith that keeps us in harmony with our God. He may not be your God, or what you believe, but he is mine.
I quit trying to convince people of the existence of God when they refuse to accept that they must have faith in God's existence. The apostle Paul even says that is you fail to convince the non-believer of God's existence, the kick the dust off your heels and move on.
I know that there are many non-believers on here as they have made that point abundantly clear. But faith, I believe, is the catylist which we must have to believe.
Again, I urge people to read the book of Genesis, especially the part about creation, with an open mind, and you may be able to see that there is room in The Bible for evolution.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
The Bible does not say that we evolved nor that we did not evolve. It does not say that the world is only 4,000 years old. It doesn't say when or how God created the world and all its creatures.
I believe God created us. If you're a Christian then you ought to believe that. However, how exactly and when exactly he created us is another question. He may have created the inhabitants of the earth through the process of evolution. A lot of the evidence points toward that. God also might have spontaneously created us as many Christians believe. I don't know beyond a shadow of a doubt. I do know from my faith in God that both methods of how we were created are possible.
At Berea College, from where I just graduated a few months ago, the students have to take "Understandings of Christianity." Berea was founded upon Chrstian principles. This is not a class where people preach to you, though there is a professor that preaches and shoves liberation theology down your throat. This course looks at Christianity from an academic perspective.
Anyhow, the professor I had for that class was a moderate to liberal ordained Baptist minister. His explanation was that as a Christian, he is to follow the commandment "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul. He accepts evolution and calls that loving God with his mind.
I might point out that science is knowledge of the natural world and all the phenomena. Science cannot disprove religion. It certainly cannot prove religion to be true. The only evidence is faith or lack there of. I cannot tell a non-Christian what to believe or what not to believe and he or she cannot tell me what to believe or what not to believe. Religion and phenomena dealing with the supernatural cannot be touched by science as they truly are unknown and left up to faith.
I know what I believe to be true. I believe God is our father and that Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins and rose on the Third Day. I don't have to prove to any of you that it's true. That is between myself and God.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
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Originally Posted by
centennialdawg
Those verses, to me anyway, lends creedence to the theory of evolution.
Lol and the mountains of facts that support evolution don't?
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Originally Posted by
centennialdawg
But the BIG thing is in finding that last link in connecting modern man to the pre-historic beings that have been found.
There is no such thing, not a shot at you, but that's always the last line used in the denial of evolution from the religious - there is no missing link scientist are looking for, of course they're always looking for more evidence to make things clearer and improve on their understanding....but it's fact as it stands now and is not doubted the least bit. There would never be a find
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Originally Posted by
centennialdawg
Again, I urge people to read the book of Genesis, especially the part about creation, with an open mind, and you may be able to see that there is room in The Bible for evolution.
I don't get what you're saying here? Why does there have to be room for anything? Science is not on any mission or sets out to disprove religion, just because the Evolution does doesn't jive with those neat fables in a book..doesn't mean it's purposely trying to debunk religion. I'm sure I could find verses and stretch them beyond belief to say this is really what god meant(or the guys that wrote it meant), but that's not necessary. Huge problem with this dumbed down country, they have attempted to expand/create gray area's so they're right too or at least not wrong. Some need to realize that there is a right and wrong answer surrounded by cold hard facts that aren't debatable to a lot of questions, sure that's not the case with some and it is a matter of opinion...but not on any level people claim just so they don't look bad and can continue to reject the truth because of this non-existent gray area they have come up with in their mind.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
R13... you are wasting your time. You will never change a Christians mind about their beliefs. If you do then they are not true Christians. As we will never change your mind about religion. You believe in the complete opposite than what Christians believe. I think you get on here just to stir the pot.
Regardless I pray for your R13.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
This isn't a religious issue, evolution isn't, but that's where the problem comes in with the "you're not a true christian if you believe this" no matter how common sense and logical it is. One of my biggest problems with religion, it doesn't let you think for yourselves and hinders intellect.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
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Originally Posted by
R13
it doesn't let you think for yourselves
No disrespect intended but a lot of people on here feel the exact same about you.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
Lmao, I don't doubt it, but I guess that's why I accept blatantly obvious things like this and don't reject it because it doesn't go hand in hand with some incredibly old book full of contradictions and fallacies.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
If you read my post, then you must know that I gave a perfectly good, and reasonable explanation as to how evolution can be explained in The Bible. Most commentators on The Bible have stated that ecolution could very well have occured during the "creation" of the heavens, earth, and finally man and that if it did, then it probably occured between the first and second verse in Genesis.
I never said not one time in my post that it did NOT occur; however, you just jumped to the conclusion that I did say that. show me in my post where I said it did not occur and that it could not occur. I would love for you to show me. I even explained my reasoning behind my belief on evolution in that I said and quoted from The Bible that, "A thousand
years is but a day to The Lord. Time, as we know it, means nothing to The Lord. This is a perfect example that it could very well have occured. I have given, at least in my mind and in the minds of others(not you of course) 2 reasons that Jesus could accept evolution. I believe that those 2 parts of The Bible give very strong credence to evolution.
I also said that God tells us(christians) that if we can not convince a person of the existence and the Salvation of The Lord, then we are to kick the dust off our shoes and move on. You, my young man, are lost forever in that you refuse to believe(although you do say you are agnostice of which I have my doubts). I hold nothing personal against you, but I certainly do have pity on you for your non belief.
As a matter of fact, I, along with others have done exactly what The Bible teaches us. We are dusting the dirt off our shoes and moving on.
Enough said. I will no longer listen to your ramblings.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
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Originally Posted by
R13
This isn't a religious issue, evolution isn't, but that's where the problem comes in with the "you're not a true christian if you believe this" no matter how common sense and logical it is. One of my biggest problems with religion, it doesn't let you think for yourselves and hinders intellect.
if it isnt a religious issue then why does your title say Would Jesus accept evolution? haha wow dude........
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
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Originally Posted by
R13
Lmao, I don't doubt it, but I guess that's why I accept blatantly obvious things like this and don't reject it because it doesn't go hand in hand with some incredibly old book full of contradictions and fallacies.
You just proved my point. You're no better than the people who reject evolution because they don't think it goes hand in hand with the Bible. At the first sign of disagreement with somebody you're quick to put them down and say that they're stupid, ignorant, or uneducated.
With the attitude that you're always correct without leaving room for people to disagree, you will not get very far in life nor will you get very far in your career. With a careerin politics, you might want to work on your rhetoric and debate skills. Nobody wants to debate with someone who acts like they have all the answers and that anyone who disagrees is an idiot.
If you were reading most people's replies in this thread, which you obviously weren't, you won't find many people, if anybody, who actually rejected evolution. Some of us were saying that evolution and the Bible can coexist. You proceeded to act like people were stupid for not sharing your beliefs. Not everybody is going to agree with you. Accept that. Get over it and just grow up.
And if people do not accept evolution, that's their prerogative. No matter how stupid you think they are, that is their decision. They reject evolution because of faith. I explained what faith is. If people use faith to reject evolution, you can't touch them.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
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Originally Posted by
collegetrumpet2010
And if people do not accept evolution, that's their prerogative. No matter how stupid you think they are, that is their decision. They reject evolution because of faith. I explained what faith is. If people use faith to reject evolution, you can't touch them.
I was with you on the other 98% of your post all the way--until that bolded part above.
If it's a belief and you choose not to believe in evolution b/c you don't theologically believe in it, sure--there's no changing your mind. However, if you're going to get into a fact-based discussion regarding evolution with someone like R13 who believes in it and doesn't believe in the religious faith that you do, then it becomes a purely fact-based discussion.
At that point, either discuss the facts w/o claiming faith, or extract yourself from the discussion if you don't want to talk science.
That being said--R13 shouldn't have posted it here if he wanted to discuss the facts of evolution w/o mixing religion into it. This being the Religion Board and all, that's entirely valid in the discussion as it pertains to religion. To complain about it being brought up is short-sided on his part. It's pretty dumb to show up on a Religion Board expecting to discuss something like evolution w/o expecting religion to be injected into it.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
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Originally Posted by
CoeburnCane
It's pretty dumb to show up on a Religion Board expecting to discuss something like evolution w/o expecting religion to be injected into it.
And yet, that is exactly what he's going for. He wants you to be offended, bring up your faith, discuss your beliefs...so that he can call you and idiot and incapable of free thought because it doesn't align with what he calls fact.
What he doesn't realize is that to a person of faith, God is FACT.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
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Originally Posted by
Shooter
What he doesn't realize is that to a person of faith, God is FACT.
As altruistic and amen-generating from the back pew as that statement is, when discussing a scientific issue--God isn't fact. He can't be proven scientifically. I'm not being a contrarian for the sake of it--just pointing out the logic at work.
The discussion does indeed have religion injected into it given the subject line and the article's content, though. That was R13's first mistake. But--as has been said, it's his take on it. Just because he can't see all sides of it doesn't make him an idiot, just a poor judge of the situation w/o any foresight to what the discussion would degrade into once he posted it on a RELIGION board.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
Show me where I called any of you stupid for what you believe, I'm curious to see them. I see two posts claiming that I did, but don't recall it, hell don't even remember having that many exchanges with these two posters recently anyway...and definitely nothing on this subject to where I would even have a chance to say anything like that. Because I don't chalk every subject up to "well there's two sides, no one is wrong" when that's not the case and a lame excuse to admit you're actually wrong doesn't mean any of that happened.
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Originally Posted by
Rocky
if it isnt a religious issue then why does your title say Would Jesus accept evolution? haha wow dude........
Huhh? Were my arguments from a religious standpoint? No they weren't, did you even read the OP? It was an article explaining that since christianity is a religion that claims it's about about truth and evolution is fact, why do they still refuse to accept it? Apparently a few of you all missed that, none of my arguments are from a religious standpoint, so where are you all getting I'm mixing it in with it? Talking about the others sides attempt to connect it with religion and not accepting it on religion, wasn't arguing anything from a religious standpoint about evolution, the whole argument is that it's not a religious debate and people shouldn't reject it because of it.
And where in the hell was the complaining about posters talking about religion? I never once did, I obviously posted it on this board for a reason - where else would I, esp when that's the name of the article? I was talking about the debate as a whole, not the exhange on this forum in this thread, really don't know how it was even taken that way. Damn.
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Originally Posted by
collegetrumpet2010
You just proved my point. You're no better than the people who reject evolution because they don't think it goes hand in hand with the Bible. At the first sign of disagreement with somebody you're quick to put them down and say that they're stupid, ignorant, or uneducated.
With the attitude that you're always correct without leaving room for people to disagree, you will not get very far in life nor will you get very far in your career. With a careerin politics, you might want to work on your rhetoric and debate skills. Nobody wants to debate with someone who acts like they have all the answers and that anyone who disagrees is an idiot.
If you were reading most people's replies in this thread, which you obviously weren't, you won't find many people, if anybody, who actually rejected evolution. Some of us were saying that evolution and the Bible can coexist. You proceeded to act like people were stupid for not sharing your beliefs. Not everybody is going to agree with you. Accept that. Get over it and just grow up.
And if people do not accept evolution, that's their prerogative. No matter how stupid you think they are, that is their decision. They reject evolution because of faith. I explained what faith is. If people use faith to reject evolution, you can't touch them.
Again, where was this said? It wasn't.
Doesn't look like you know how debating works, that's exactly how you should debate - presenting facts and let them speak, not calling it a draw just so everyone's ego doesn't take a hit and their feelings aren't hurt. I'm not explaining the whole "you think you know everything" shit for the millionth time, got old months ago...but again, pretty sure you miss the point of debating with that last line.
Actually, it's the opposite, from threads in the past...I know for a fact several reject it on here. The one post in this thread about it rejected it IMO. Claiming there was a missing link that hasn't been found is to me is casting major doubt and giving excuses to not accept it. It's a forum btw, with that logic no one should ever post anything since not everyone is going to agree, then what the hell is the purpose of a forum? This place has gotten so boring, but still you're complaining about a thread that actually has some exchanges. I get that it's not even about that, it's just things are said that you don't like so it's "just grow up and stop". Again, a FORUM.
And that's bull, that's hiding behind your religion with the "oh it's faith, can't argue with that". Sorry, doesn't work that way. I see it as manning up and explaining why(which I'm guessing there is no logical reason why that's why it's used) you believe that way in situations like this if they are going to talk about it...can't spout off a bunch of stuff and then when you're called out on it fall back on that excuse.
And what is meant by "co-existing"? Everytime I have heard that used, it's an excuse to bring creastionism into classrooms. Really don't even know what else someone is talking about when they say that. And the bible really doesn't jell that well with it either, these young-earther creastionists believe the way they do for a reason...there's support for it in that book, but it definitely doesn't match up with actual facts.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
Again, this is about whether Jesus accept evolution, not a debate on one's faith, or your lack of faith. Like I said, The Bible, in my belief, does support evolution. I gave two perfectly good examples of where I believe The Bible does support evolution.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
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Originally Posted by
centennialdawg
Like I said, The Bible, in my belief, does support evolution. I gave two perfectly good examples of where I believe The Bible does support evolution.
and AGAIN, he only read what he wanted to from your post and decided to ignore what you said just to try to turn it into a pissing contest.
once again, if you didnt want this to be a religious issue you shouldnt have posted in on a religious forum, thats purely ignorant, APPARENTLY YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DEBATING OR HOW IT WORKS. i can back that up with facts, your title says Would Jesus accept evolution, Jesus died for your sins and mine, thats fact. I cant prove that he rose from the grave, but you should still respect the man enough not to try to deface him at every chance you get. YOU turned this into a religious debate when you posted it here, thats a fact, thats what you wanted to do, thats a fact. Another fact is that you like to ruffle feathers, I dont know why that you do, but you do. YOU dont know what you are, you have claimed to be atheist, and agnostic at the same time in different portions of this forum clearly claiming to be an atheist when you backed up an article with WE* (meaning myself and these atheists) then trying to say ooops i meant we because im agnostic and figured id throw myself in there anyway. <---- laughable, make up your mind. I have no and I mean NO cares of what religion (or lack of religion) that people follow. I DO however think its bullshit that you always claim that Christians are trying to force religion down others throats, yet you get on here every day and try to disprove it. WHO is trying to force beliefs here R13? YOu post shit like this just to piss off shooter and whoever else has a strong Christian belief, then try to defend yourself when they say something about it?
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
oh and by the way, saying that belief in religion hinders intellect is calling people who follow religion stupid, just to get that fact out of the way too. If you would have said hinders expanding your education, or hinders insight then you wouldnt have just called billions of people in the world stupid.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
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Originally Posted by
R13
Show me where I called any of you stupid for what you believe, I'm curious to see them.
HERE...your backhanded jab.
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Originally Posted by
R13
One of my biggest problems with religion, it doesn't let you think for yourselves and hinders intellect.
I'd say that calling someone stupid.
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Originally Posted by
CoeburnCane
As altruistic and amen-generating from the back pew as that statement is, when discussing a scientific issue--God isn't fact. He can't be proven scientifically. I'm not being a contrarian for the sake of it--just pointing out the logic at work.
Seriously man, I said to a person of faith, God is fact. This is the religion forum, and he did ask the question "Would Jesus accept evolution?". That, to me, asks a Christian, who believes God is fact, the question.
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Originally Posted by
CoeburnCane
The discussion does indeed have religion injected into it given the subject line and the article's content, though. That was R13's first mistake. But--as has been said, it's his take on it.
Noone here debates that is his take on the subject.
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Originally Posted by
CoeburnCane
Just because he can't see all sides of it doesn't make him an idiot, just a poor judge of the situation w/o any foresight to what the discussion would degrade into once he posted it on a RELIGION board.
Ahhh, theres where you underestimate r13. He has all the judgement and foresight, just not the kind you and I have. He WANTS the discussion to "degrade" ,as you so condescendingly put it, into a religious conversation simply so he can state that he has scientific fact, and you have only faith, so he must be right, and you must not be able to "think for yourself".
Therefore your left with Christians,and all religious people, on this board left with the choice of ignoring him or giving in to our emotions and defending the thing we believe in, and our own intellect...that he claims we are hindered in.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
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Seriously man, I said to a person of faith, God is fact. This is the religion forum, and he did ask the question "Would Jesus accept evolution?". That, to me, asks a Christian, who believes God is fact, the question.
BUT--my point stands. If we're having a discussion on evolution in any other forum than a religious one, God is not fact. You, as a believer, can believe God is fact--but when relative to the discussion, God is not scientific fact. That was my point. I'm not discounting how much you believe in God or whatnot, I'm just saying he's not scientifically provable.
I'm not questioning your faith or anyone else's and I brought that point up to show how crazy it is to give this subject credence on here especially when you know the POV that R13's going to come from--a scientific one.
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He WANTS the discussion to "degrade" ,as you so condescendingly put it, into a religious conversation simply so he can state that he has scientific fact, and you have only faith, so he must be right, and you must not be able to "think for yourself".
Therefore your left with Christians,and all religious people, on this board left with the choice of ignoring him or giving in to our emotions and defending the thing we believe in, and our own intellect...that he claims we are hindered in.
If you took my point about the discussion degrading wrong, then I'm sorry. I didn't say it degraded simply because it became one with a religious slant. I've had many great discussions that blended with religion. Where I should have simplified what I meant as far as "degrade" meant in what I said is the bickering and idiocy of people fooling themselves into thinking they're going to change the other side's mind somehow. THAT is a degraded conversation that had some potential to be a good one...but it got too personal and controversial that it degraded into this (paraphrasing):
R13: The scientific facts show X, and this proves that religion is wrong and you lack intellect for believing in it.
Everyone Else: God is the fact here, and I refuse to discuss any scientific facts because I believe in the Bible.
So...that's where we are. That's what I meant by degraded...not just on one side or the other--I'm placing zero blame. I'm just saying the discussion is dead and pointless given the polarization of the two sides having the discussion.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CoeburnCane
R13: The scientific facts show X, and this proves that religion is wrong and you lack intellect for believing in it.
CORRECT paraphrasing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CoeburnCane
Everyone Else: God is the fact here, and I refuse to discuss any scientific facts because I believe in the Bible.
INCORRECT paraphrasing
The fact is, everyone on the religious side agreed that Jesus might in fact agree with evolution and tried to discuss how it goes along with the Bible. My first post in this thread was about how I believe that science and religion can coexist. The degredation of the thread came when r13 was not expecting this response, and had to say we lack in intellect, because of reading an "old book". He has no desire to have a conversation with anyone...its all about him being right, and the rest being stupid.
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Originally Posted by
CoeburnCane
So...that's where we are. That's what I meant by degraded...not just on one side or the other--I'm placing zero blame. I'm just saying the discussion is dead and pointless given the polarization of the two sides having the discussion.
My apologies, it seemed as though you were saying the religious part of the conversation was the degrading part.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
Point blank, if you didn't want a religious discussion then you shouldn't have had your title say "would jesus accept evolution?". And obviously, don't post it in the religion forum if you don't want a religious debate. That's like talking about Beethoven and saying you don't want a musical discussion.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
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Originally Posted by
collegetrumpet2010
Point blank, if you didn't want a religious discussion then you shouldn't have had your title say "would jesus accept evolution?". And obviously, don't post it in the religion forum if you don't want a religious debate. That's like talking about Beethoven and saying you don't want a musical discussion.
Bingo.
And I'll put this out there for everyone to see: R13 needs to think about the above before posting any further in the Religion Board. The next thread I see like this one that's put up there just to bash and start a mini-holy war will be deleted, and it's entirely possible the access to this board might be gone for him as well.
BUT--some of the rest of you need to take the reins and actually post on here. For a bunch of people who come out and get outraged when R13 posts, I rarely see other religious postings on here, where they're supposed to be.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
I'll be damned, guess I was talking to myself earlier or you all purposely ignored the first thing I said in that long post.
"Huhh? Were my arguments from a religious standpoint? No they weren't, did you even read the OP? It was an article explaining that since christianity is a religion that claims it's about about truth and evolution is fact, why do they still refuse to accept it? Apparently a few of you all missed that, none of my arguments are from a religious standpoint, so where are you all getting I'm mixing it in with it? Talking about the others sides attempt to connect it with religion and not accepting it on religion, wasn't arguing anything from a religious standpoint about evolution, the whole argument is that it's not a religious debate and people shouldn't reject it because of it.
And where in the hell was the complaining about posters talking about religion? I never once did, I obviously posted it on this board for a reason - where else would I, esp when that's the name of the article? I was talking about the debate as a whole, not the exhange on this forum in this thread, really don't know how it was even taken that way. Damn."
Never once complained about anything anyone posted or the content of the thread, even clarified it in another post, but still what 2-3 posts right here completely ignoring that and rambling on about things I never said.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
R13
I'll be damned, guess I was talking to myself earlier or you all purposely ignored the first thing I said in that long post.
i was just returning the favor haha...... nah man there is really no point at all in discussing religion, ive said that before, you can put 1000000 people in a room and maybe 20 or so in 20 different groups will agree. The rest will just walk out getting no further than they did to begin with.
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Re: Would Jesus accept evolution?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rocky
YOU dont know what you are, you have claimed to be atheist, and agnostic at the same time in different portions of this forum clearly claiming to be an atheist when you backed up an article with WE* (meaning myself and these atheists) then trying to say ooops i meant we because im agnostic and figured id throw myself in there anyway. <---- laughable, make up your mind. I have no and I mean NO cares of what religion (or lack of religion) that people follow. I DO however think its bullshit that you always claim that Christians are trying to force religion down others throats, yet you get on here every day and try to disprove it. WHO is trying to force beliefs here R13? YOu post shit like this just to piss off shooter and whoever else has a strong Christian belief, then try to defend yourself when they say something about it?
Wtf? You're going to tell me I do and don't know about my own beliefs? Never claimed to be an atheist at all and the thread you're talking about, the "we" was as in "we non-believers", that was explained in that thread and hell even think that post too...no slip up or me claiming it was a slip in anything. So you're wrong there again. Because I don't call myself what my parents religion was and because I actually put some thought into my beliefs doesn't mean I'm somehow confused with the whole thing...if there's a belief/group that fits with beliefs, thats what I'll call myself, just like right now I'm reading a lot on humanism and it seems to fit my beliefs more than just agnosticism. Which by the way, that doesn't mean you're in the middle between there being a god and not being one there's different definitions - most lean one way or the other and I was a secular agnostic, which means I don't think there is a god but its a debate that can never be determined...but that doesn't mean there isn't evidence available and that the 99.99% of leaning one way, just that it's something that can only completely be answered after death.
But I never flipflopped on anything as you're trying to claim, as I learn more and more the evidence keeps piling up that there is no god and I lean more that way. So that's bullshit with the I need to "make my mind up", there's no cutoff with learning and changing how you think or what you believe. You're crazy if you think I just claimed to be agnostic just for this forum sake, when have I ever been shy about what I believe on here?
And I've explained that a million times, arguing about religion isn't forcing it on anyone, I have never complained about that on here ever...never complained about the threads/posts in favor of a god is forcing anything on me or anyone. When I say that, it's when they force it through legislation or other ways, not on here...when you inject a religion in a secular gov. and try to pass legislation/rules that unconstitutionally effects everyone, that's forcing it on others. I post mostly because I'm board, I don't care if anyone comes in, I've told everyone of these people if they don't lke it...don't read it or reply, I don't care either way. When someone posts in the prayer thread or when cosmo was posting her threads, did I feel insecure in my beliefs that I had to go in and say "no, no, no...that's not true" or whatever, I just stay in my threads and people come in...I don't see them as trying to get a rise out of me, honestly I don't flatter myself that much unlike others who think I'm directing everything at them. They're more than willing to argue, they complain and complain about what I post only when they either know they have no argument or just don't like what they see. Seen shooEer claim I post this and that to put people down(mostly claiming shit I have never said), but what do people do? They come into the threads and argue, if that was true, why not just stay out? Because that's a bullshit excuse and it's not true, fact is I don't really give a damn about what's said on here, I don't take it all that seriously...mostly it's a cure for being board and gives me something to do, but others take it way too personally. I've probably been called every name in the book on here and most on here don't like me, hell even threatened by several posters, don't see me bitching about it or even really caring. It's a forum and the internet, it's not like I have anything against anyone who posts on here, I've met several and they could tell you I'm one of the nicest people you'll meet and will talk to and shake your hand. Everything is left at the computer where it should be, if I got pissed about everything said on here or cared what any stranger behind a screen thought about me then I'd stay pissed...but I don't, hell I don't even take life that seriously to care that much about what people think.
