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Tease! I am interested to hear how he has died. R13, I thought he was dead years ago?
NBC says he's dead after US action (?drone?)
add Gadhafi's son yesterday...
wonder what the retalation will be?
I was wrong, completely wrong. I thought for sure with all the information at hand, that he had died or was killed years ago, but that was not true. He was alive and I was dead wrong, now he's dead too! Success!
This kinda gives some vindication to all veterans for all the hard and terrible things we had to do during war. Especially at a time when people are questioning our mission over there.
Big development in history.
With it happening in Islamabad, I wonder if Raymond Davis may have been hot on his tail. Not exactly a huge distance between Lahore and Islamabad.
I bet Pakistan's government is worried sick about this now if they didn't provide any of the intelligence behind this.
Im hearing Pakistani intelligence officers were deeply involved in the covert operation and were there every step of the way.
They mentioned that a minute ago on CNN as well. I hope it is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggin
Here is the speech.
So we killed the figurehead of a terrorist group thats bigger, less centralized, and more determined than ever? Symbolically, its good for americans that he was captured. However, just like the PLO, just like Hamas, just like Hezbollah, the end will never be in sight. Its a hollow victory in the grand scheme of things. You just cant win against a decentralized, militant, guerrilla warfare unit thats willing to die at all cost. You can use intelligence to stiffle the organization but with it being decentralized, its a difficult task to handle. Right now, with so many countries in the middle east, youre gonna see terrorist groups popping up all over the place. Youre better off leaving goons like Gaddafi in power because you just dont know what you are replacing him with. History says that too. We got rid of Bautista for Castro as one example. There's several others just like that. As long as the US supports Israel, be prepared for your hair gel to get thrown away and your 6 year old daughter to get strip searched at the airport. The next step for Al-Q will be to recruit members that look like typical, average americans. They will be putting these folks on the street. I predict there will be suicide bombings in our own stores and shops in the future. Its a good night for Americans, but nothing has really changed.
btw, I bet the royal family is ****ed. Its like George Washington just ****ed in their cherioes all over again :)
i don't think soQuote:
Originally Posted by Biggin
I wondered if Davis was on his trail when I heard this too. I would say they couldn't make any strikes till they got him freed.
Seemed like Obama enjoyed patting himself on the back during his speech. Noticed quite a few I's
Glad this happened when it did the news being all over the royal wedding's nuts was driving me crazy. We had over 300 americans killed during storms and every time i turned to the news it was showing something about the wedding.
He did make a very tough decision approving an attack in the way we did yesterday. I will give Obama credit for making that decision. I also applaud the CIA and Department of Defense in recon and gathering the intelligence to make this happen. Clinton let some great opportunities slip away during his time. Tora Bora was a bad execution at the scene of fighting for our military under W's time when they said they were surrendering, but instead the time was used for bin Laden to slip away because we didn't have the area covered as well as we thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones
I would truly like to know how much Pakistan played a part in this. They are trying to say their intelligence helped out, but I have a feeling they didn't have clue since things were kept so close to the vest (as they should be) even within our own government, and Pakistan had no clue until after it was over. I am thankful that once again our SEALS done a great job and was able to accomplish a huge mission without losing a member of the group.
Oh yeah it was a good call. But just to many I's in his speech for me.
I doubt Pakistan had a clue. Read that they where trying to scramble jets because they didn't know about the aircraft involved in the raid.
on every gun forum i frequent people are going ape **** over obamas speech. I say who cares, just be happy that one of the 10 billion threats we have is gone. I say we cut aid to every country that hates us and let them kill themselves out with civil wars, if Pakistan didnt know that Bin Laden was living a few miles from their own "west point" something is wrong.............. no doubt in my mind they were harboring him. how could the worlds most wanted man be that close to a military installation of that caliber and them NOT know about it?
We all just need to be glad that Bin Laden is dead. Obama made a decision that could have the ability to make or break his presidency..and he had the guts to send in the SEALs. There should be no more question by GOPers or anyone else concerning his patriotism or leadership ability...he had reason to gloat. And, naysayers now have a very good reason to trust in his ability to lead this nation forward. Bin Laden was a scourge just like Hitler was..and he was killed on Obama's watch largely due to Obama's decision to go all in on a gamble to get him. Give the President the props he deserves. BTW, wonder if Raymond Davis had any pics of the area surrounding Abbotabad on his cell phones that the Pakistanis confiscated? Folks were quick to condemn him as Blackwater etc...but what folks need to understand is that our security depends on men like him to track and weed out terrorists. Terrorism is a nasty business...and weeding them out and killing them is just as nasty. But, the citizens of the USA need to toughen up a little bit and realize that just because something is politically correct doesn't mean it's right. If somebody busts you in the mouth, you go above and beyond busting their mouth...you give 'em something to remember you by the next time they even think of coming at ya again. The only problem I have is that they didn't hang him butt a$$ naked by one leg at ground zero for the birds to feast on and then cut his head off and bury it inside a pig carcass after he rotted enough and fell down to the ground after his leg rotted off...that's the burial he deserved.
Give him props? I'll give him props but he patted himself on the back way to much tho. Making tough decisions is what he signed up for that is his job. He gets payed pretty well to do it. I don't get how him doing his job would make him more patriotic than the next person doing their job and making tough decisions.
[QUOTE=MikeJones;1861790]Give him props? I'll give him props but he patted himself on the back way to much tho. Making tough decisions is what he signed up for that is his job. He gets payed pretty well to do it. I don't get how him doing his job would make him more patriotic than the next person doing their job and making tough decisions.[/QUOTE
The difference is he said in 08 he'd get Bin Laden and he came through. He deals with scruitny all the time saying he's unamerican, muslim, etc. But this mission was his call and he raided a soverign nation to get Bin Laden. You guys can live in denial about Obama all ya like, but he proved himself this past weekend whether folks like it or not..and he deserves the credit he took for his part.
He kinda beat us to giving himself credit. So he got Bin Laden? I thought it was a seal team. I hate to break it to folks but Obama didn't do this all by himself.
People aren't going to give him any credit because of their personal problems with him, plain and simple. I don't see where he gloated the least bit in that speech, saying "I authorized" this and that isn't gloating, it's stating facts. He authorized/signed off on the whole thing, that's one of the toughest decisions anyone in that position to make. Even when he was told there was just a 50-80% Bin Laden was in there and after going around the room asking staff, intelligence officers and his cabinet on what to do it was split. The lives of the soldiers and civilians in the balance, if he was wrong, lives could have been lost for nothing. Then the political fallout from that and his leadership questioned beyond belief, that takes MAJOR balls to do and there's many POTUS's who wouldn't take that chance. Also had the sense to send in a small special unit team to minimize casualties/damages and also to collect data and to prove it was actually bin laden who they go, there were many that wanted to just bomb the complex. But nooooo, he was ****y :rolleyes:
R13 are you saying no one is giving him credit?
He ordered the strike via the Seals. He could have called for a bombing and hoped that the bombs got there before bin Laden was able to escape. Instead, he called for the quick/efficient strike. It's a tad bit more risky as far as putting American lives in the line of fire, but these guys got in, had a 40 minute long firefight, and took bin Laden out w/o any collateral damage to the area. Obama didn't pull the actual trigger, but he is the Commander in Chief, and it was his call--and his call got the job done. Those are the facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones
"So he got Bin Laden?" That's kind of a trite way to put it. This is HISTORIC. That'd be like telling Allied troops, "So you won WWII?"
Keep the partisan crap out of this. Bush deserves some credit for beginning the intelligence gathering (though I will say, waterboarding did not help to make this happen--torture does not work as an interrogation device), and the soldiers who carried out this mission deserve to live long, rich, and revered lives as US military men and are due every celebration we can give to them. Just like Bush and the soldiers get credit, Obama should get some too. If I had given the order to make that strike, and bin Laden was killed--I'm sorry, but my speech following that would have had too many I's in it for you as well. Let this guy thump his chest a little bit--as we all are.
Me and you don't agree on much..but we do here. Obama staked his entire political career on the raid to get Bin Laden..if he failed he'd be put down from now on like Carter was over his failed raid to get the hostages out of Iran. Folks should remember, the President is the ranking military officer because he's the Commander in Chief. Anyone who has ever been in the military knows the President is the top of the chain of command...it was Obama's call, and he made the correct one. More than likely he chose the type of unit he wanted sent in and the commander of the branch of service the unit fell into chose the exact unit. But for anyone to say the decision to go in began and ended with Obama is asinine. Without his SUCCESSFUL decision, Bin Laden would still be livin' it up in Pakistan...plain and simple. He deserves as much credit for Bin Laden's death as the guy that put the bullet in his noggin.... Notice you haven't heard Boehner, the Tea Party, or Trump spewing their ignorance since this all happened..lolQuote:
Originally Posted by R13
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
Oh yeah he ok'd it but its not like he didn't have any advisers helping him with his decisions. And on the he got bin laden I was referring to the post where they quoted him as saying he would get osama in 08. Where did I bring up any partisan stuff? Im just stating he didn't do it alone and the I crap was ridiculous. Its kind hard to shake a mans hand and tell him good job when his is to busy slapping his back with that hand.
Those guys need to be set up in multimillion dollar mansions with butlers, maids..the whole nine yards. Give 'em all 3-4 million bucks to boot. They rid the world of an icon of evil..and should never have to work or worry bout money again. Hell, if they want to snort coke off the boobs of a Cambodian hooker, the government should find a way to make it happen. The killing of Bin Laden is that monumental...hell we've spent 15 years and untold millions trying to kill him. This weekend it got accomplished...to the victors go the spoils IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
He had advisors, but it was his a$$ on the line making the decision...get over it. Obama got done what Bush didn't..it's as simple as that. If he was a white Republican from Texas you wouldn't have a problem with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones
Quote:
Originally Posted by sup-rbeast
**** right he had advisers and it wasn't all him. So in my opinion he used "I" way to much you get over it. Way to play race card btw. Not sure what color and and where he is from would have anything to do with me have a problem with his speech. I don't care if it was the donkey from shrek giving the speech i wouldn't have agreed with it. I can tell someone nice job with out them telling me how great a job they did.
Lyndon Johnson had advisors during Vietnam, but who got blamed for the decisions? Carter had advisors but who got blamed when he failed to rescue the hostages? Bush I had advisors, but who got blamed that he didn't go after Saddam? Clinton had advisors, but who got blamed for the fiasco in Somalia? W had advisors but who got blamed when Bin Laden escaped Tora Bora? Regan had advisors BUT he took credit for the strike on Ghaddaffi. Obama has advisors but he MADE THE DECISION...and he takes the credit for his part. He should pat himself on the back and we all should too. He gave credit where it was due..even the credit due himself. Advisors advise, LEADERS LEAD.
Tough decisions are part of his job. He had help making them. I don't think he could say I sat in a Pakistani prison. Alot of others involved than just Obama. Liek I said before it was a good call. Just to many "I's" in his speech. He should have been patting alot more than just his back.
Are you one of these people who just likes to complain for the sake of complaining or what?Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones
You're coming across as pretty petty when it comes to nitpicking how Obama delivered the news that Bin Laden was taken out. You're missing the entire point by begrudging the semantics that Obama used in this announcement.
Are you also one of these folks that looks down on endzone celebrations, that says "act like you've been there before"? Obama gave the order to score the ultimate killshot. He's the Head Coach that made the call to go for it on 4th and Goal from the 3 in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl, and he made the right call. The troops get to spike Bin Laden's head like a football, but--as sup-rbeast points out, had that gutsy call not been made--the celebration never happens, and he's looking for a job elsewhere.
No president is a lone-wolf...we all get your point there. Thusly the need for a VP, the cabinet, military advisors, and many other people on staff to take advice from. But when all of the advice is taken in, and all of the advisors are split as to what to do--HE makes the call. HIS political future is staked on the success/failure of what happens. If this mission had failed, lives would have been lost and we wouldn't have gotten Bin Laden. Imagine the disaster that would have been in the context of Obama's presidency. That took balls to make the call to send the Seals in, and to trust that the mission would be executed to the T.
Can't you just say "Hell yeah, he got him!" and be happy instead of worrying about his use of a personal noun modifier?
During Desert Storm, we had him pinpointed almost to which chair he was sitting in and were given orders not to go after him. Bush senior did not make this decision, but it was instead, "Stormin Norman" who made that decision. We turned at the Euphrates and headed back toward Kuwait instead. He plainly stated that it was not our job to take Hussein out, but to drive Iraq out of Kuwait.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup-rbeast
Obama deserves the credit for making the decision for taking him out. I never agree with r13, but in this case I do.
He had advisors to state what the pros and cons were to each operation. Ultimately, it was his decision alone to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJones
I do believe that Schwartzkoff's order came from above. GHWB did not feel like it was the most prudent (SNL) thing to do in eliminating Saddam at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by centennialdawg
Another display of undermining posters and showing reasons why the number of postings has declined on the LPD Forum.
I don't mind it when someone says that someone doesn't like Obama because he is a liberal, but when somebody throws out the race card then they just lose all credibility with me. Why is a person always racist when they don't like Obama? I just don't understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup-rbeast
I agree that he made a good call by sending in the troops and he does deserve credit for having enough balls to do it. But when I read headlines that say Obama got Osama (MSN.com) or something like that then it makes me mad. It wouldn't have mattered what President was in office, what party he's from or what color he was, the troops that completed the mission should get credit first and foremost.
CIA chief: Waterboarding aided bin Laden raidQuote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
Quote:
Originally Posted by red66
That's it your done you have broken all internet forum rules by bringing in facts.