Horny!

Finally, after a long wait and lots of experimentations.....

http://imageshack.us/m/863/97/img0179n.jpg


http://imageshack.us/m/7/1650/img0175jo.jpg

http://imageshack.us/m/196/3974/img0169hsh.jpg


Azura horn XO at 500 hz 2nd order using Altec 802D(thanks NullSpace!) and 416B/612C.

Ever since I heard the 612C cabs in my room(with a 604 before), I always felt that it was the right bass bin in it. Lift it up about 4" above the carpet and the result was amazing. As for the horn, I tried Altec 811 and 511 and a JBL (whose model number escapes me at the moment) and you can see on the third pic that they are out of commissioned (probably to the classifieds here, Ebay or Craiglist bound).

More than 4 months in the making and still not done with the final horn mounting assembly. But that can wait...



regards,

Abe

That's a nice looking setup you have there, Abe. Glad I could help out with the drivers.

Regards,
John

Hi Abe,

Great looking set up! Would love to hear them sing. ;-) ... BTW what drivers are attached to the 511 horns in the pic?

BugC

BugC,

Thanks!

Ahh...I think you are referring to the JBL 1234 horns not the Altec 511. The JBL drivers are 2470's and currently with the original phenolic diaphragm. I just received the replacement aluminum (orig) diaphragms to convert them into a 2420 (same pots according to my reading) but have not installed it yet.

The green 811 horns have an Altec 802-8D on them.


Abe

I can't help but notice the 3 or 4 turn tables in your set up.

Hi Abe,
How did the JBL's compare to the Altecs in your system? ... In a scale of 1 to 10 how far up is the new setup (azura horns) compared to the previous two? ... Am still searching for the right system for me. ;-)
BugC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BugC

Hi Abe,
How did the JBL's compare to the Altecs in your system? ... In a scale of 1 to 10 how far up is the new setup (azura horns) compared to the previous two? ... Am still searching for the right system for me. ;-)
BugC

---

The JBL only goes up to ~9kHz. So tweeter performance plays a major key when using them, but the midrange is clear(a little warm than Altec though).

I will be lying to you if I will not say that the set up with the Azura horns sounds wonderful. Much better than the Altec 511/811 sound in my room for sure. But it takes a lot of fiddling around with crossovers and up to now, I am still trying different configs. When taking a break from experimenting, and just want to listen and relax, I just use a 1st order XO which to me when done right, is more than what I needed to enjoy the system. but of course, there's always the "what if.....?"

If I did not venture with the Azura horns, I will eventually go back to OB with my 604's. The Altec 511/811 with bass bin using 802D/806 are ok, even my Altec 19 clone with Zilch XO/Altec 1201 XO/Altec N500 XO again with the 511/811 was fine, but in the end I would say that it is not better than the OB in terms of clarity. Also when you stand up assuming that the 511/811 is at ear level when sitting down from the listening position, there is a noticeable decrease in fidelity, Bass of course is better compared to OB but IMO, only in terms of amplitude but not quality.

The biggest problem with the Le Cleach horn that I can see....I want to get a bigger one, probably on the 200-300 Hz range(on order!).

regards,

Abe

Hi Abe,

Thanks for the reply! ... I could imagine just how happy you are with the new setup ... As for me, who's still trying to find the right system, might go back to the OB's but this time using 3 drivers, the GPA 416-8c, Altec Biflex 415-8a and the JBL 075 bullet tweeters. I tried OB's before using a Pioneer PAX-30G driver. It had a huge soundstage and sounded wonderful. However, there's something missing that's why I'll try them again but this time with multiple drivers! ;-)

Cheers,
BugC

Very nice indeed. This is a direction I have been thinking about going for some time as I own a 416. In regards the Azura horn, do you feel you need to dampen it? Please keep us posted on your crossover design.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BugC

Hi Abe,

Thanks for the reply! ... I could imagine just how happy you are with the new setup ... As for me, who's still trying to find the right system, might go back to the OB's but this time using 3 drivers, the GPA 416-8c, Altec Biflex 415-8a and the JBL 075 bullet tweeters. I tried OB's before using a Pioneer PAX-30G driver. It had a huge soundstage and sounded wonderful. However, there's something missing that's why I'll try them again but this time with multiple drivers! ;-)

Cheers,
BugC

---

Hi BugC,

I really think that you are going in the right direction! Bass/Midbass on the 416-* should be great. Look at the pic below:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...Picture005.jpg

I have tried this since I also have a pair of 414's. Since my OB has a cut out for the 15" 416, I made an adaptor plate to accomodate the 414. A little low in the LF but midbass/midrange and top end were fabulous!

I also tried the 414 on the 612C bass cab using the same adaptor plate. The results surprised me and may eventually switch back and forth between the 416 and 414. The 414 in my opinion, if you do not need a lot of Low bass, blends very well with the 800 series compression drivers from Altec and has a bit more coherence than the 416 in the midbass/midrange(probably because of the blending).

regards,

Abe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John48

Very nice indeed. This is a direction I have been thinking about going for some time as I own a 416. In regards the Azura horn, do you feel you need to dampen it? Please keep us posted on your crossover design.

---

Hello John,

No, I do not think I need to dampen the horns(fiberglass). If you have the horns in front of you, it is thick and very well made and the mounting flange is made of hard resin, not metallic. Martin Seddon(Azura horns) sent me a simple alignment tool to line up the mouth of the horn to the driver, even when using an adaptor plate for 1" to 1.4" and using the tool made it's a breeze to install to obtain smooth driver to horn mouth transition.

When I first mounted the horn, I was using the Altec 1201 XO so I will have a control of the mid/top end amplitude adjustment to blend with the woofer, it sounds nice. I then tried the 500 Hz Altec second order XO, nice too but a little too much on the midbass(prominent). I then tried a simple XO at 850 Hz(23.4 uF for the HF PIO with Fostex L pad and 1.5 mH for the woofer straight, Foil type) as I read more about it based on Dr. Bruce Edgar's post plus my mentors suggestion (Joseph E. of JE Labs)and indeed, after further evaluation, was much better sounding in my application. Aligned the drivers for the HF and LH magnet or VC plane and becomes much better still. That is why I am going to try a bigger (350 Hz, on order) horn as I am curious if it will give some more improvement to what I am hearing.

I had been using the Altec 811/511 horns since I joined this forum and they are good. To me however, the Le Cleach horn (at least from my experience in my system) sound much much better than the 511/811 horns that I had been experimenting for a while as you will find from my past posts here irregardless of the XO normally use for the set up (500, 800, 1200, and 1600 Hz)and I will bet my money on that using my set up because I have experienced it with my own ears. To me, there is no turning back, I hope. Soon, I will be experimenting with BMS/Altec 288/PAD/Radian once I can afford them and see if it is a worthwhile improvement compared to the 800 series Altec drivers I have. Also, try to find a contrast between the 400Hz and 300 Hz Le Cleach and choose one that is right for me in the long run.

Best regards,

Abe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VolvoHeretic

I can't help but notice the 3 or 4 turn tables in your set up.

---

Ahh yes, currently 4 on commission(Garrad 301, Thorens MKI and MKII, and the Classic Teres 255). Different flavor for each depending on the genre of music playing. Soon you will see me posting about "downsizing TT playback", but not yet ;)

regards,

Abe

Ah, those OB's look familiar! ... I remember my Pioneer Pax-30G mounted on them .... ;-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amandarae

Ever since I heard the 612C cabs in my room(with a 604 before), I always felt that it was the right bass bin in it. Lift it up about 4" above the carpet and the result was amazing.

---

Hi Abe ! You know I always felt that way too.Wether I put my 604G's or a 416B in my 612C's they always sounded pretty darn good ! Very Enjoyable cabinet and it's not overly large like my 19's.For Folks with smaller listening rooms it is the perfect cabinet IMHO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altec Best

Hi Abe ! You know I always felt that way too.Wether I put my 604G's or a 416B in my 612C's they always sounded pretty darn good ! Very Enjoyable cabinet and it's not overly large like my 19's.For Folks with smaller listening rooms it is the perfect cabinet IMHO.

---

I totally agree sir!

Quote:

---

When I first mounted the horn, I was using the Altec 1201 XO so I will have a control of the mid/top end amplitude adjustment to blend with the woofer, it sounds nice. I then tried the 500 Hz Altec second order XO, nice too but a little too much on the midbass(prominent). I then tried a simple XO at 850 Hz(23.4 uF for the HF PIO with Fostex L pad and 1.5 mH for the woofer straight, Foil type) as I read more about it based on Dr. Bruce Edgar's post plus my mentors suggestion (Joseph E. of JE Labs)and indeed, after further evaluation, was much better sounding in my application. Aligned the drivers for the HF and LH magnet or VC plane and becomes much better still. That is why I am going to try a bigger (350 Hz, on order) horn as I am curious if it will give some more improvement to what I am hearing.

---

Hi,

Seems like we are both going down the same road.

It is after reading Joe's JE labs website that led me to try a simple first order crossover(around 900 Hz using Russian KBG pio capacitors and air core inductor) with my Altec 515B's and Altec 288-16G drivers(attenuated using Mills resistors by about 12 dB).

The horns are Stereolab Tactrix horns,and the bass cabinets are Bill Woods half horn design.

I use a JBL 075 Tweeter to fill in the highs.All drivers voice coils are aligned.The speakers sound superb driven by my SET 45 amp

Quote:

---

Soon, I will be experimenting with BMS/Altec 288/PAD/Radian once I can afford them and see if it is a worthwhile improvement compared to the 800 series Altec drivers I have.

---

I have compared the Altec 800 series with the 288 series and the 288's are far better.They have an ease of reproduction that the 800 drivers can't match plus they sound better in the mids.A Tweeter needs to be used to add that last bit of air when the 288's are used.

Regards
Rajiv

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vyju

Hi,

Seems like we are both going down the same road.

It is after reading Joe's JE labs website that led me to try a simple first order crossover(around 900 Hz using Russian KBG pio capacitors and air core inductor) with my Altec 515B's and Altec 288-16G drivers(attenuated using Mills resistors by about 12 dB).

The horns are Stereolab Tactrix horns,and the bass cabinets are Bill Woods half horn design.

I use a JBL 075 Tweeter to fill in the highs.All drivers voice coils are aligned.The speakers sound superb driven by my SET 45 amp



I have compared the Altec 800 series with the 288 series and the 288's are far better.They have an ease of reproduction that the 800 drivers can't match plus they sound better in the mids.A Tweeter needs to be used to add that last bit of air when the 288's are used.

Regards
Rajiv

---

Rajiv,

Thank you! I will have to save some dough to acquire a pair of the 288's (What do you have, B or C?). Soon, I should be able to post my experience here I hope.

Abe

Quote:

---

What do you have, B or C?).

---

Hi Abe,

I use the Altec 288-16G drivers.

Have you heard the Harana V2 speaker cabinets that Joe makes for the Altec woofers?

I would like your opinion on these.

Regards
Rajiv

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vyju

Hi Abe,

I use the Altec 288-16G drivers.

---

Hey Abe ! The 288G's have been selling for quite a bit ! Between $1500-$1850 ,well the last 3 pairs were in this range.Not counting shipping costs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vyju

Hi Abe,

I use the Altec 288-16G drivers.

Have you heard the Harana V2 speaker cabinets that Joe makes for the Altec woofers?

I would like your opinion on these.

Regards
Rajiv

---

Rajiv,

No, I have not heard the Harana V2 (nor the V1). Last year when I was there, it was not built yet I believe and had no chance to meet with the boys because of my hectic sched. Maybe next year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altec Best

Hey Abe ! The 288G's have been selling for quite a bit ! Between $1500-$1850 ,well the last 3 pairs were in this range.Not counting shipping costs.

---

Yeah, I know. Quite a lot!!

What do you think about the Alnico 288 that GPA sells? Any experience with them that you can share?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by amandarae

Yeah, I know. Quite a lot!!

What do you think about the Alnico 288 that GPA sells? Any experience with them that you can share?

---

Unfortunately I don't own a pair of them yet, "YET" . :D A friend of mine has a pair though, that I had a chance to listen to once briefly.They sounded very nice from what I remember ! And they are a set I would like to own.I didn't get to hear them with a bunch of different music though, as I wasn't there that long.But what I did hear. I liked very much ! They were attached to a pair of 805's ;)

When testing new drivers, I like to mount them to different (horns/crossovers,and bass bins), and with a lot of different music to give them a fair assessment IMHO.

Abe,

In looking at your Youtube video of this system

YouTube - ‪Il canale di amandaraer‬‏

it looks like a Fostex tweeter sitting on the top of the bass cabinet? Is it hooked up or are you just considering it? Even on an internet video, the system sounds great. Even the video with the Altec horns sounds good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John48

Abe,

In looking at your Youtube video of this system

YouTube - ‪Il canale di amandaraer‬‏

it looks like a Fostex tweeter sitting on the top of the bass cabinet? Is it hooked up or are you just considering it? Even on an internet video, the system sounds great. Even the video with the Altec horns sounds good.

---

Hey John! Yes, the Fostex tweeter is hooked up with a single 0.6uF capacitor and an L-Pad attenuator.

Abe

Abe your system looks very nice and sounds quite good as best I can tell on headphones while watching the video. Two suggestions:

1) Move the tweeters back to align the voice coils with those of the midrange drivers. The tweeter arrivals are currently several wavelengths ahead of those from the midrange drivers, confusing the imaging and overall clarity. I would raise the tweeters several inches on wooden blocks and use towels to catch any reflections. Using a stretched string from the center of the listening chair aids in setting the distances accurately. If you enjoy listening in the dark and pinpointing the locations of instruments in space then these steps are essential.

2) Add room treatment to at least absorb the closely timed reflections from side walls and floor. Most anything (mattresses, towels, etc.) can be pressed into service experimentally, with nice looking treatments to follow. The more absorption you add to the room surfaces, the more you hear the details on the recording and the less you hear the constant overlay of room reflections.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steve Schell

Abe your system looks very nice and sounds quite good as best I can tell on headphones while watching the video. Two suggestions:

1) Move the tweeters back to align the voice coils with those of the midrange drivers. The tweeter arrivals are currently several wavelengths ahead of those from the midrange drivers, confusing the imaging and overall clarity. I would raise the tweeters several inches on wooden blocks and use towels to catch any reflections. Using a stretched string from the center of the listening chair aids in setting the distances accurately. If you enjoy listening in the dark and pinpointing the locations of instruments in space then these steps are essential.

2) Add room treatment to at least absorb the closely timed reflections from side walls and floor. Most anything (mattresses, towels, etc.) can be pressed into service experimentally, with nice looking treatments to follow. The more absorption you add to the room surfaces, the more you hear the details on the recording and the less you hear the constant overlay of room reflections.

---

Hello Steve,

Thanks a lot for the tips! I will try them as soon as I get back home(in the UK at the moment).
Again, thank you and will report back about the result.

Abe