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Cedric Mitchell's name in that latest arrest round-up. He'd been working at Payless in Appalachia and I'd gotten to be around him some and he's a really good kid. He worked his ass off, was always on time, dressed nice, and was very polite. I'd assume this is from something that happened a while back since the release said some of the stuff was back as far as 98. I hope the kid can get off with little trouble since it looked like he was doing the things he needed to do to be a good citizen.
that first part is good to hear but the list is sad to hear. Always hoping a kid can turn their life around and lets hope that is the case. that this is something he has to take care of because of some past incident and not where he is at currently in his life
I was just talking about Cedric to a coworker from Big Stone last week and wondered where he was at nowadays after talking about some really talented kids in the past 5 years or so. I hope he is getting things straightened out also.
Cedric's a good guy, anybody that has ever known the guy will say the same thing. I've known him practically my entire life and have always enjoyed being around him. I hope he gets off with nothing, of course I have some pretty weird views on drugs.
I really do hope Ced gets something worked out, but Im afraid he gets seriously fucked.
It doesnt matter his life is straightened up now, they wont let him off for that even tho hes a young guy who made a dumb mistake when he was young. He has a baby on the way too.
This may be a good example of what is so terribly wrong with our justice system and it impacts every one of us.
If they lock this young man up as Biggin points out they probably will and statistics say they probably will, then they directly impact the rest of his life, the life of his unborn child and probably others around him as well. It also indirectly impacts you and me by taking a productive member of the work force out of the tax paying column and places him in our care, probably for the rest of his life.
I'll explain some of this. The United States accounts for about 5% of the world population but we account for an astounding 1/4 of the world's imprisoned people. We have almost a million more people imprisoned than communist China which has more than 4 times the population that we have. This is not necessary by any standard. We lock people up for reasons and terms that astound and sicken even conservative experts from Europe and other industrialized parts of the world. By doing this we are taking potential taxpayers and turning them into dependents, in most cases for the rest of their lives. This in turn become generational and snowballs.
Politicians make more and more laws in order to court votes and sensible politicians are afraid to take a stand for fear of being branded as soft on crime while we continue to lock up thousands of non-violent, non-dangerous criminals and teach them to be dependent upon us for their needs while also training them in violence and hate.
Stupid beyond belief in my opinion.
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Originally Posted by Gotch
Problem with that is that there has to be accountability for an action. You can't just say "I am straight now-please wipe the slate clean". Yeah the timing sucks,but it is what it is. In a perfect world,officials will consider what he has done as of late and give probation/go lean,but that also is what it is. I hear so much about how many Americans are locked up,but truth be told,we are missing many that should be. We paroled a killer a few months ago from my pod at work. This guy laughed at us as we took him to the gate. Weeks later he killed an innocent family whom he was jacking,and 3 more died because a judge went soft. There are two ways at looking at this folks
Or we are eliminating a big portion of unemployment percentage. Just depends upon how you want to look at it. There are plenty of messed up things about the court system. Both that lock people up for too long, let them out too early, or let them off scott free when they should be thrown under the jail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotch
This in a nutshell is the problem with our justice system. People view drugs the same way as killers. Legalize (some) drugs and end the insanity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unchained
This is one of the best posts I have ever seen on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotch
We arent talking about murderers or violent offenders. No one ive ever spoken with advocates violent offenders being given extra leniency or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unchained
It doesnt matter how much the judge wants to cut someone a break, a felony conviction is on their record. What kinda job can a person get with a felony conviction? No decent ones.
Theres a huge difference between simple accountability and common sense. A person like Cedric, a young person who is only 21-22 years old, is being punished for a mistake he made at least 2 years ago, a mistake that gave no other person any physical harm, and it doesnt matter what he has done since. How can a person in Ceds situation afford a great lawyer to get him a better deal? How can he possibly fight this? His name was in the newspaper with other federal indictments. No one around here forgets this kind of stuff.
It comes down to this; if Cedric gets a felony conviction on his record, his life will likely go down a dangerous path out of neccessity. No one wants to give a felon a job, and prison turns non-violent offenders into violent offenders to survive. This is not a little conviction, a misdemeanor that he can skate from and his life goes on, this is a FEDERAL indictment. His life will never be the same. How anyone can support this system I will never know.
Since we (the U.S.) incarcerate about 500% more people than most other industrialized nations then it must mean one of two things. One, Americans are far, far more evil than other people or our system is far too harsh. I can't see any other options?Quote:
Originally Posted by Unchained
So which is it? American are the worst people on earth or is our system out of line?
If you have another option I'll listen, but I can already tell you that I can't see any other possible option.
PS....If my math is right we are incarcerating about 700 to 800% more people than communist China! We aren't talking about the U.S. locking up a few more people than other countries. ONE IN EVERY FOUR PRISONERS IN THE ENTIRE WORLD IS INCARCERATED HERE IN THE U.S.!!!! THAT DOESN"T SEEM LIKE A PROBLEM?!?!?!?!?!
Can't draw unemployment unless you've held a job and then it's temporary. You think we aren't paying the way for all of those inmates? And to pay the salaries of many of those hired to guard them?Quote:
Originally Posted by 1inStripes
Problem is we are locking up too many of the wrong people. Also the system is completely bogus. In must (as in nearly every) cases money will get the offender freed. If they can't afford a really good defense then it's bye-bye.
For many years I've pointed out this one example:
Defense attorney Gerry Spence graduated law school in 1952 he practice law until 2008 (I believe). HE NEVER LOST A FELONY CASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, not one, no, not even a little one, never, zip, zero, none.
He practiced law for 56 years UNDEFEATED!!!!!! He beat the U.S. government repeatedly, including in the Randy Weaver case.
On the other hand prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi tried 106 felony cases and lost only one.
Now, do you believe that every one of Spence's clients were innocent? Do you believe that all 105 of those people Bugliosi convicted were guilty? Of course they weren't, so the only obvious conclusion is that Spence help set many guilty people free and Bugiosi locked up some innocent ones.
what's the common thread? Highly skilled lawyers. What's not fair about that? Our system is suppose to be about justice, not abut who has a kick-ass lawyer.
UNDEFEATED IN 56 YEARS!!!!!!! GREAT LAWYER....LOUSY SYSTEM.
I am not referencing drawing a check, but truly unemployed people more than likely. Possibly ones that would not count against the figures you see printed all the time how high or low unemployment is, but we all know thats been a forged number since the 70s. The thing is, what do we change? The court system itself for trial is setup to the defendents aid, with the fact that things have to be proved above a reasonable doubt.
Reasonable doubt is a farce. So is innocent until proven guilty. They sound nice but neither is actually in practice in our court system today.
I've told is little anecdotal story before. Many years ago I was in the office of one of counties assistant prosecutors (he was a life-long friend RIP) his boss came in and started discussing a case right in front of me. It appeared that his boss had two primary suspects. The entire discussion concerned which one was more "CONVICTABLE". That was the word I heard over and over and over. Never once anything about which might possibly be guilty! Just which one they could more easily convict.
I'm not sure if you knew, but several years ago Amnesty International rated our court system at below the 50% level compared to other countries. Russia beat us in terms of offenders getting a fair trail. Our prison system scored even lower.
But, I guess I really didn't answer you question.
The answer is that we have way too many laws. Like the old saying, "the more laws, the less justice". We keep passing new laws that are unneeded and far too harsh. We then enforce the new law like a kid playing with a brand new toy and then we repeat the process over and over and over.
Amnesty International probably did not put a single country who uses the death penalty in the top 50% of court systems. Everything should be rainbows and marshmallows in this world to most of their members.
I agree that AI is very liberal but they have done some really great and dedicated work over the years. They are one org. I really respect despite having many differences of opinion with.
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Originally Posted by pvfan
I would love,LOVE to see pot legalized. I have seen alchohol do so much more damage to peeps and lives than weed. Here's the fair plan though: No dealer is any better than us folks who bust their humps and get taxed to death. Force them to receive merchant's licenses where they will shuck out the dough to operate-buying legit storefront property and advertising, going through inspections by the govt to ensure that the products are safe,force them to get to know the IRS like the rest of us and turn in W2s like we do. Burn their arses if these conditions are met,and watch Uncle Sammy rake in the ka-ching. Could you imagine the hit we could make on the deficit with weed money?:cool: After all,nobody rides for free
Ive been preaching this for years, and Im glad to see more middle aged and respectable citizens who work good jobs supporting a system like above. It makes so much sense, to legalize and tax it, I guess thats why the gov't refuses to even seriously debate the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unchained
Our legal system is horrible. I'm an example of that.
Innocent until proven guilty? It's a LIE.
I was issued 30 days in jail when I was 18 years old. I went and appealed it, and got it reduced to community service. Now, let me explain why.
2003 graduation practice at J.W. Adams Elementary. Girl runs in and tells the officer she thinks she saw myself and a friend racing cars around the bus loading platform. (it's an oval that looks like a mini race track) She told him we were doing 60 plus mph and side by side. If anyone has been there, you know this is impossible. Well, the cop comes and talks to us the night of graduation and says he's given us a wreckless driving ticket for "illegal street racing". We denied it left and right, and he said he believed the girl over us. I thought the cop would have to actually catch me in the act to write me a ticket? Wrong. He actually called my house, and asked me for my cars tag number. I didn't provide it to him, so he actually drove to my physical address to see the car and get it himself.
So, we went to court over this, and this was my FIRST time in court EVER. I ended up going on 3 separate occasions because the cops witness didn't show and finally the cop said he had "amnesia". I stuck to my story, and even brought in my witnesses. The cop was going on hear-say and the judge believed him. She sentenced me to 30 days in jail for a first offense, when a police officer couldn't produce ONE single witness and keep his story straight. Of course, I appealed it and was sentence to 16 hours community service.
My point is, our legal system is ignorant. I never actually raced around the oval at J.W. Adams.. and I even went with a state trooper and figured that you couldn't get even get up to 60mph with 2 cars side by side. But this shows they'll lock you up for anything, and it's a shame. It really is a shame.
I have supported the legalization of pot since my early 20's. I see no sense with the laws(past and present) banning this substance.
That's because China executes rather than imprisons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotch
China executed 470 people last year that does rank them slightly higher per capitia than the U.S. but not enough to change the percentage even 1%. Sorry, simply not true. I had already thought of that as a possible retort and had already run the numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotSoSilentBob
Sorry, those numbers above are wrong.
Those are official numbers from 2007. China, by best estimate executed about 3,400 people last year. That is a staggering number compared to the 46 executed in the U.S. In fact China executed more people that the rest of the world combined.
As terrible as those numbers are, if you add them to the incarcerated numbers they barely change the comparison there either though.
In other words The U.S. incarcerates or executes about 700 to 800% more people than Communist China if that makes you feel better.
If you want the numbers in totals, there are about 2.2 million behind bars in the U.s. right now. There are about 1.5 million behind bars in China (keep in mind that China;s population is 4 times ours). As you can see 3,400 executes, while absolutely horrible, wouldn't change the numbers by more than a percentage or two at most.
if you believe those numbers, ive got a bridge i want to sell you :rolleyes:
Steer, I feel your pain. In my lifetime I have been charged with two minor crimes. The first time I was guilty but found not guilty. The second time I was not guilty but found guilty. Neither time was there any attempt by anyone to find out the truth or what actually happened. Our courts are a farce.
Disclaimer: Both events occurred more than 25 years ago.
Which numbers?Quote:
Originally Posted by NotSoSilentBob
I had already admitted I was mistaken on the first total. That was an official total as claimed by the Chinese.
The second total was provided by groups opposed to the executions in China and was based on the best data available and then had some guesses added in. If it is wrong it is probably too high, not too low. The Chinese actually executed more in 2007 than 2010. The numbers have been dropping due to international pressure.
Now, if you get out the old calculator and run the numbers you'll see just how minor a difference 3,400 makes in 2.2 million (the total incarcerated in the U.S.)
Finally, I will buy nearly anything I think I can make a dollar on, but bridges have never been a big seller for me, unless there are some gold teeth attached.
Today is a prime example as to why you are innocent until proven guilty. But it may prove your lousy court system correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotch